RE: TVR to offer carbon construction
Discussion
RoverP6B said:
They go through a different homologation process to normal production cars, the low volume of production exempting them from various rules which apply to normal cars. You don't think a barely-altered 1950s Lotus Seven would pass current EU rules, do you?!
Is the car road legal. Yes. Next.
DonkeyApple said:
1968. And today's Caterham doesn't have much in common to the original under the plastic.
Today's Caterham has almost nothing in common with the modern definition of a "car".I fear "new TVR" will be a badge stuck on the front of an expensive, rich man's toy. A few wealthy individuals will snap up early production for its novelty value but the trajectory after that might be tricky. None of TVR, Noble or Morgan ever really managed to achieve sufficient sales of their expensive cars. Even Mercedes and McLaren have gradually moved down market from £250k towards the £125k-£150k price point occupied by Porsche, Lamborghini and Ferrari. And, I suspect, new TVR.
Personally I have no idea what the new TVR will be when it arrives or what it will cost. But I am aware that the world's best selling V8 sportscar is the Corvette and sits at about £70k, Euros 90k or dollars 70k, depending which market you look at. As Lotus have found, if your customer base is buyers who "don't want a Porsche/Corvette/whatever" you end up with not many customers. Sooner or later you have to come up with product which is fundamentally desirable in itself - not only to a handful of hardcore masochists but to the wider sportscar buying public. IMO the closest TVR ever got to that position was with the 350i and then the Chimaera, which were very similar in conception although different in styling. In essence, this is the same market which Lotus has been struggling to tap.
Whether or not an enthusiast wants to buy them the fact is that MX5, Cayman, Corvette and 911 all exist as modern well-engineered and cost-effective machines. They make it very hard for anyone who aspires to enter the game. IMO examples of failed attempts include the Farboud/Farbio/Ginetta GT (which never really got going), while Spyker, Artega, Wiesmann and others have all hit the fan.
It's tough out there!
Ozzie Osmond said:
Today's Caterham has almost nothing in common with the modern definition of a "car".
I fear "new TVR" will be a badge stuck on the front of an expensive, rich man's toy. A few wealthy individuals will snap up early production for its novelty value but the trajectory after that might be tricky. None of TVR, Noble or Morgan ever really managed to achieve sufficient sales of their expensive cars. Even Mercedes and McLaren have gradually moved down market from £250k towards the £125k-£150k price point occupied by Porsche, Lamborghini and Ferrari. And, I suspect, new TVR.
Personally I have no idea what the new TVR will be when it arrives or what it will cost. But I am aware that the world's best selling V8 sportscar is the Corvette and sits at about £70k, Euros 90k or dollars 70k, depending which market you look at. As Lotus have found, if your customer base is buyers who "don't want a Porsche/Corvette/whatever" you end up with not many customers. Sooner or later you have to come up with product which is fundamentally desirable in itself - not only to a handful of hardcore masochists but to the wider sportscar buying public. IMO the closest TVR ever got to that position was with the 350i and then the Chimaera, which were very similar in conception although different in styling. In essence, this is the same market which Lotus has been struggling to tap.
Whether or not an enthusiast wants to buy them the fact is that MX5, Cayman, Corvette and 911 all exist as modern well-engineered and cost-effective machines. They make it very hard for anyone who aspires to enter the game. IMO examples of failed attempts include the Farboud/Farbio/Ginetta GT (which never really got going), while Spyker, Artega, Wiesmann and others have all hit the fan.
It's tough out there!
I agree entirely. I think they've got the right name behind the design side. The right sized and branded engine also. But it still needs to look good as in aspirational. They've said the cars will effectively be £80k but their market is going to be potentially very small: I fear "new TVR" will be a badge stuck on the front of an expensive, rich man's toy. A few wealthy individuals will snap up early production for its novelty value but the trajectory after that might be tricky. None of TVR, Noble or Morgan ever really managed to achieve sufficient sales of their expensive cars. Even Mercedes and McLaren have gradually moved down market from £250k towards the £125k-£150k price point occupied by Porsche, Lamborghini and Ferrari. And, I suspect, new TVR.
Personally I have no idea what the new TVR will be when it arrives or what it will cost. But I am aware that the world's best selling V8 sportscar is the Corvette and sits at about £70k, Euros 90k or dollars 70k, depending which market you look at. As Lotus have found, if your customer base is buyers who "don't want a Porsche/Corvette/whatever" you end up with not many customers. Sooner or later you have to come up with product which is fundamentally desirable in itself - not only to a handful of hardcore masochists but to the wider sportscar buying public. IMO the closest TVR ever got to that position was with the 350i and then the Chimaera, which were very similar in conception although different in styling. In essence, this is the same market which Lotus has been struggling to tap.
Whether or not an enthusiast wants to buy them the fact is that MX5, Cayman, Corvette and 911 all exist as modern well-engineered and cost-effective machines. They make it very hard for anyone who aspires to enter the game. IMO examples of failed attempts include the Farboud/Farbio/Ginetta GT (which never really got going), while Spyker, Artega, Wiesmann and others have all hit the fan.
It's tough out there!
The UK isn't in the middle of a tech boom that is flooding young pockets with cash they never thought they'd earn or full of the baby boomers hitting early 50s and retiring with good health, big money and childhood memories of sports cars in the 60s.
It's unlikely to appeal to the track day specialists. It won't appeal to he brand consumers who need a product to park outside their destination. It's not going to appeal to women or to men who need help to move their seat and it will be launching at a time when no one in the UK below the age of 65 has much in the way of savings or disposable income. And I also reckon the price tag will be over £100k rather quickly.
It's a huge uphill struggle but it's a much better opportunity than when it was owned by a niaive kid or risked being bought by an indebted care home operator. And as you say most people seem to want a Corvette or a Porsche. But I've never wanted either and I don't think I know anyone who does either and I don't have any interest in modern Ferraris, Lambos and cancelled my MP12c order but I have my silly sports car and have no use for a two seater at this moment in time so all I can do is hope that there are enough other people to be buying a couple of hundred a year.
Anyway, the bit of mine you quoted was just correcting the other chap who said the Caterham was based on the 1950s Lotus and hadn't really changed. It was based on the 1968/9 version and has been changed dramatically.
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