RE: Tesla Model S P90D: Review

[eltawater]

I find the idea of a Tesla as a daily commuter very intriguing but the price is just a little bit too high at the moment to justify.

My commute is currently 20 miles each way along mostly NSL dual carriageway.

With a bit of back of the envelope man maths :

Current Jaguar XF 3.0 S monthly:
. Car repayment = £300
. Parking charges = £40
. Diesel = £300

vs

Tesla monthly:
. Lease / HP / Depreciation = £1000
. Parking charges = £0 (There are free electric bays outside the office and it means I don't have to hunt for a space beyond 8am.)
. Electric charging = £0 (See above)

Not a million miles away but just far enough to be unable to justify it. If the monthly cost of the Tesla could be brought down to £600 it would be oh so tempting

[Mr GrimNasty]

Proved what I've always said, Tesla is great at making executive toys at a loss with other people's (taxpayer & dumb investor) money, but sales of ordinary electric cars/hybrids have stalled in the US - they are simply not wanted or necessary, and there is no game changing battery advance in the pipeline.

[crostonian]

The tech is all well and good but why does it have to look so bland? The size gives it some presence but the styling, or lack of, is what really puts me off. It's not that it looks futuristic either, it looks like a previous generation Mazda6!

[DoubleD]

I was about to post about the looks. I completely agree about it looking like a bland Mazda.

[98elise]

Fuldhat said:

menguin said:

If the P85D has 393HP it's doing extremely well to get to 60mph in 3 seconds! I'd suggest that regardless of HP figures and torque figures the car does the speeds that it claims and reports from US owners suggest the range is accurate. With free Tesla charging stations already all across America and popping up over Europe quickly, when the 3 series equivalent comes in the traditional manufacturers will be so far behind they won't know what hit them.

Also check that they exclude 0.2 sec (Motortrend dragstrip testing) from the 3 sec number, so again the real number is 3.2 and not 3.0 or 2.8.

Well you've convinced me its a gutless car with no power

[unsprung]

Mr GrimNasty said:

Proved what I've always said, Tesla is great at making executive toys at a loss with other people's (taxpayer & dumb investor) money, but sales of ordinary electric cars/hybrids have stalled in the US - they are simply not wanted or necessary, and there is no game changing battery advance in the pipeline.

You're right that low prices for petrol are putting a dent in the sales figures for EVs and hybrids. Regular petrol in the US is now a laugh-out-loud 34p per litre.

But this is likely not a long-term scenario. Moreover, it is mooted by the so-called CARB regulations (mandating EVs and hybrids as a percentage of total sales) issued by the state of California and implemented also by a number of other US states.

Full-on EVs will enjoy a notable market presence. And we have not yet begun to experience the successive waves of innovation and product introductions that will forever change mobility.

For example: The recently unveiled Chevrolet Bolt is but a taste of what is to come. Some might even say that the Bolt represents a sort of "everyman's electric car" with a revolutionary potential not unlike that of the Model T a century ago.

The Bolt will travel more than 200 miles per charge. And it will sell in its domestic market for the equivalent of £21,000. The value proposition gives customers more range at a lower price than any leading EV brand available today. And it will be in US showrooms during 2017.

The Bolt will also be sold in a similar form on the European continent. Regrettably, and somewhat sadly in my opinion, it will not be manufactured in RHD and, consequently, will not be offered as an OEM product in the UK.

Further details here.




Note: this is the Bolt with a B; not to be confused with the similarly-named (and therefore potentially confusing) Chevrolet Volt.

[nicfaz]

Can't believe we got this far without someone pointing out that the move from P85 to P90 has nothing to do with the speed or power. The "90" is the battery size - i.e. the equivalent of the fuel tank. The reason why it's quicker than the old one is that they've made it 4wd with a second motor. The two motors combined are more powerful than the old single motor.

[CedricN]

Evs got very odd torque curves, and hence acceleration curves. Would be interesting to see more cars in the same plot. Tesla seems to gather quite a following, now just start produce electricity in a better way so it actually starts helping the environment to drive ev

[kambites]

nicfaz said:

Can't believe we got this far without someone pointing out that the move from P85 to P90 has nothing to do with the speed or power. The "90" is the battery size - i.e. the equivalent of the fuel tank. The reason why it's quicker than the old one is that they've made it 4wd with a second motor. The two motors combined are more powerful than the old single motor.

You may well need the extra cells for the battery pack to be able to sustain the higher current draw of the greater overall motor power? I'd imagine bolting the P90s drive-train to the P65's battery pack would result in a much slower car than the P90 (or possibly a fire).

[mhag]

Drive one if you get the chance! The "usable" performance is like nothing I've experienced. My Griffith is pedestrian in comparison (although I'm too much of a pussy to floor it unless it's bone dry & a straight line ahead).
18-20 parts in the drive train of a Tesla (according to t'internet), how many in an ICE? When it comes to manufacturing an EV is a big battery with seats & a washing machine motor on each corner. CD/cassette vs solid state MP3? Also checkout Treehugger etc for a view on how the Chinese manufacturing sector is gearing up to develop EV tech.
Build quality seemed ok but only time will tell if it will cope with being used as a skip/beach mobile as well as my German car has.

[mikEsprit]

gangzoom said:

Last year in the US, the Model S has already managed to overtake sales of other $75,000+ machines. Audi, BMW, Merc better get a move on with their own Model S 'killer' to market, if this trend continues over the next few years there wouldn't be much of a luxury ICE car market left!!!

While I would rather have an XJ, I see Teslas regularly and I think their road presence is equal to all of these vehicles listed. They did a superb job on the LED design.

[Chris Stott]

My brother in law has a P90d. Those people saying its only quick to 60 need to go drive one before commenting... I followed him in my 996, and got absolutely annihilated from 50 to well I excess of that. It has immense mid range for a 2200kg 4 door saloon.

[krallicious]

They are quite impressive but if you need to charge it up somewhere to continue your journey then it could take a while. What if all of the charging stations are in use?

The Tesla Superhcarges take an hour and normal public ones charge at a rate of around 22 miles per hour charged. Not quite like queuing for a pump. For city commuting they do seem to be good but if there is a very good public transport system why not use that?

[98elise]

nicfaz said:

Can't believe we got this far without someone pointing out that the move from P85 to P90 has nothing to do with the speed or power. The "90" is the battery size - i.e. the equivalent of the fuel tank. The reason why it's quicker than the old one is that they've made it 4wd with a second motor. The two motors combined are more powerful than the old single motor.

All D models have 2 motors.

[Chris Stott]

Charging takes 15 mins for 200 miles of range on a super charger

All teslas are linked to a he central system, and will redirect you to the next closest charger if the on you're heading to is full.

[unsprung]

krallicious said:

They are quite impressive but if you need to charge it up somewhere to continue your journey then it could take a while. What if all of the charging stations are in use?

The Tesla Superhcarges take an hour and normal public ones charge at a rate of around 22 miles per hour charged. Not quite like queuing for a pump. For city commuting they do seem to be good but if there is a very good public transport system why not use that?

Your doubts are understandable, but could leave you open to accusations of looking at life through a keyhole.

Nobody is saying, "Right, let's remove all petrol-powered cars today and replace them with EVs."

EVs are additive. They represent an additional choice. And with well in excess of 200 miles of range, a Model S will carry you for distances which most people seldom travel -- even when they travel across or outside their region.

Despite being early days, a Model S can almost take you the distance from London to Newcastle without stopping for a charge.

And the Model S is not a commuter car. It's a full-on saloon with ample range, prodigious interior space, and peerless safety ratings.

This car delivers probably 90 percent of the functionality which people expect from a largish, petrol-powered saloon. Go ahead and lop off 10 percent due to the somewhat shorter range and the longer "refueling" time. The Model S will still outshine its petrol peers in many other ways.

[JD]

bodhi said:

Given that EV sales went down 15% last year in both the UK and the US, despite all the lovely subsidies on offer, I would suggest the ICE market is doing just fine.

I would consider that level of growth pretty terrifying if I was a manufacturer that had no real plans for getting an plug-in vehicle to market in the next few years

[unsprung]

Top 10 Reasons
Tesla Makes More Sense in the UK than the USA


10. Greater savings from abandoning the use of petrol

. 9. Simply cross the Channel to experience 0-200km/h launches on the Autobahn

. 8. Less common vehicle --> enjoy a more unique ride

. 7. Range is less of an issue: UK is smaller, more dense, more public transport

. 6. Faster charging when using ordinary household mains

. 5. Significant savings on income tax via company car (little is allowed in the US)

. 4. Less of the freezing weather that saps battery performance

. 3. Gleefully informing curmudgeonly residents of Chipping Norton how much you adore your American car

. 2. Further savings by avoiding carbon tax

. 1. Able to make ironic stops for Maltesers at petrol stations

[DoubleD]

Why can't they make it look nice though. I couldn't spend that much money on something that looks like a boring repmobile!

[AshD]

Ok, i've just 'inherited' a P85 (rear drive) model S from the boss as he's just had his new P90D delivered.

My car history includes Elise, V8 Esprit and 997C2S. I can tell you that the P85 with 'only' around 420bhp is way quicker to 60 than all of them, and having been in the P90D with ludicrous upgrade is quite a bit quicker.

I'm lucky in that Mrs D still has her Golf R so i get to experience both the old and the new.

The Tesla is still very much in the early adopter phase. Yes I think the build could be better on my car (list was £95k) compared with previous Audi, but it is the future. We should applaud what Elon has done, very very disruptive.

He's pretty much said he's a battery company not a car company.

If you could stick a A8 or 7 series body on that drive train it would be pretty special.

History is littered with examples of new, disruptive tech. Yes its not perfect yet, but just you wait.

Few years time both Tesla and Apple could be the biggest car manufacturers. If so, I'd still miss a flat plane crank V8.

It really is digital vs analog, vinyl vs CD, it's a bloody iphone with wheels.

I'm trying to take a balanced view as i know there's some strong opinions on here....