RE: Porsche 718 Boxster - full details
Discussion
Obvious troll is obvious.
I have nothing against 4 cylinder engines per se. There are good examples out there and they are arguably better suited to certain installations, particularly where weight and packaging are are concerned (as well as cost) - see Elise etc. That said, it is very much personal choice as to what one prefers (the character, including acoustic signature). Whilst I recognise that right to extend to seemingly outlandish opinions, they remain just that - opinions rather than incontrovertible fact. No need to get too worked up about them, particularly if those espousing such opinions are not willing (or perhaps able) to engage in a constructive discussion / debate about the subject (including said opinions).
I agree that 718 is a car of its time. I don't debate that it will likely prove to be well engineered, well performing a perfectly good car. I also think that some of its attributes are sufficiently far from what I look for (aside fro affordability!) that I don't need to test drive one to know that it's unlikely to float my metaphorical boat. I could like it but I'm unlikely to love it.
I have nothing against 4 cylinder engines per se. There are good examples out there and they are arguably better suited to certain installations, particularly where weight and packaging are are concerned (as well as cost) - see Elise etc. That said, it is very much personal choice as to what one prefers (the character, including acoustic signature). Whilst I recognise that right to extend to seemingly outlandish opinions, they remain just that - opinions rather than incontrovertible fact. No need to get too worked up about them, particularly if those espousing such opinions are not willing (or perhaps able) to engage in a constructive discussion / debate about the subject (including said opinions).
I agree that 718 is a car of its time. I don't debate that it will likely prove to be well engineered, well performing a perfectly good car. I also think that some of its attributes are sufficiently far from what I look for (aside fro affordability!) that I don't need to test drive one to know that it's unlikely to float my metaphorical boat. I could like it but I'm unlikely to love it.
RoverP6B said:
Cayman is mid-engined, RWD, different kettle of fish. 924/44/68 - RWD, and the windscreen is all that lifts - not conventional hatchbacks.
Cmoose agreeing with anyone at all is a miracle.
Troll identifies alternate hatchback class, they'll be coupes then. You really couldn't make this up. Cmoose agreeing with anyone at all is a miracle.
RoverP6B said:
Porsche doesn't fit convention with its sports cars. The one thing they all have in common - they're ALL rear-wheel-drive (a prerequisite for all sports cars).
Much like an E39 5 series. Actually, my W124 Mercedes is also a cracking sports car. If only I had the 6 cylinder engine...
NJH said:
RoverP6B said:
The Integra is not a coupé. The rear windscreen lifts with the bootlid. Ergo, hatchback.
Same as entire Porsche 924, 944, 968 series. Same as Porsche Cayman, same as Alpine/Renault GTA and A610.924: Bus
944: Scooter
968: hedgehog
Cayman: hatstand
Alpine: wibble
RoverP6B said:
An E46 M3 is a coupé, not a saloon, and might reasonably be called a sports car, perhaps, but an M5 is definitely a 4-door GT. I'd say the E9x M3 is also a big-engined GT.
Is that why BMW call the E90 a saloon and the E92 a coupe? You better get in touch with them before they f
k everything up.....oh waitRoverP6B said:
An E46 M3 is a coupé, not a saloon, and might reasonably be called a sports car, perhaps, but an M5 is definitely a 4-door GT. I'd say the E9x M3 is also a big-engined GT.
So by your reckoning the M4 is a sports car but the M3 is not?I would also argue the E46 is really a 2 door saloon as it is not a purpose built coupe.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
This got me thinking about the 'great' 4-pot sports/cars and coupes (hatchbacks pretty much HAVE to have a 4-pot because of packaging). And in most cases they were great because of their handling/driveability, NOT because of their engine:-Elan
Caterham
Elise
944/968
550
...but what they all have in common is that a SMALL engine was an enabler for great handling. It's all very well loving that smooth, sonorous 6, but there's a compromise hiding somewhere.
Then I thought about some other 4-pot greats, where the balance of the overall package, including a stunning engine, made it great...and all of a sudden we're into legends:-
- E30 M3
- DC2 ITR
- Exige S1
So while I understand your priorities, you are missing out on some truly inspiring drives.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Can I suggest a Honda NSX for sir? Ticks every single box and then some....and having recommended said NSX, can I respectfully point out that in my very humble opinion the DC2 is a more engaging / more 'fun' car to drive on the majority of UK roads. Not saying 'better' - the NSX is such a polished, capable machine, such a sense-of-occasion, I genuinely don't know what to replace it with. But from a pure driving engagement/involvement/f
k-me-this-is-good perspective, the DC2 was THE sweet-spot of the Honda range in the UK*. Never bettered, probably never will be now.* I REALLY want to drive an (import) NA1 Type-R or an NA2 Type-S - I think these would both have the focus the stock NSX lacks a little of. If I win the lottery one of those would definitely be on the list.
So, back to the 718. Take a car which shares much basic DNA with the NSX (half-step down in engine calibre/character, step up in modern chassis tech and overall ability), then rip the heart out of the car and fit an anodyne modern low-revving turbo-4 instead. In the words of Hudson from Aliens "Game over, man!"
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Very difficult in the UK, but find an early (1995) NSX-R. Ignoring the centre-of-gravity difference vs a Cayman, it addresses every single one of those issues and then some. Yes I'm biased, but the few things I'm not 100% sold about in my car (steering feedback, ride/handling balance, responsiveness (unfair coming from a DC2, really), 'focus') are addressed by the NA1 NSX-R.(OK, maybe not quite 150kg lighter, but easily over 100kg less than a 987-S - 1,230kg kerb weight)
I can't think of a single other car that does all of that...the Cayman-R is probably the closest modern car (IMHO the 981 GT4 is stymied by a ridiculously-long final drive for a real-world sportscar), and even there was hamstrung by Porsche not wanting to tread on the toes of the 997 GT3.
(Leftfield alternative - try one of the more-hardcore RX7's - Type R / RA / Spirit-R - only reliability concerns and anti-Japanese bias in the UK has stopped these becoming truly recognised as a great driver's car)
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