RE: Porsche 718 Boxster - full details
Discussion
macky17 said:
Fish said:
Liking the new looks, don't like the logo it is a bit contrived.. I think for most road driving the turbo will be better. We rarely get chance to wring the neck of our NA cars however I think max power at 6500 will feel limiting....
Overall I still think it will be a fantastic car. The stigma of a £50k car with a 4 pot is about done...
Is it? I'm just getting started. Porsche may rely on the ignorance of the masses to justify a price INCREASE with a lesser power unit but us PHers are not supposed to be so easily ripped off... Overall I still think it will be a fantastic car. The stigma of a £50k car with a 4 pot is about done...
I'd buy an S - in about 5 years when they're £15k or less. That would be about right.
alock said:
GroundEffect said:
A torque plateau is a GOOD thing. A power plateau generally isn't.
I agree that a power plateau is a bad thing. I wouldn't say a torque plateau is a good thing either. A torque plateau means power is increasing linearly.Rising torque means that not only is power rising, but the rate of change of power is increasing. In physics this is known as jerk (or sometimes jolt). Jerk is far more exciting than acceleration. It's why people love old fashioned turbos, because as they come on boost the torque increases rapidly and gives huge jerk.
Dont knock it, its two less bores to score !
I suspect its actually better to drive having more torque and the ones I heard on the ring videos sounded pretty good.
Good looking as well, and lets face it, as a rule PH isnt Boxster heartland is it ? old ones maybe but who on here is really going to go and lash 50 grand on one, for a start those who have that kind of cash dont buy Boxsters on PH, most would spend it on an older 911, GTR or something else.
Are we objecting by and large because we would otherwise buy one or because in twenty years when they have migrated down we dont want a four cylinder ?
I suspect its actually better to drive having more torque and the ones I heard on the ring videos sounded pretty good.
Good looking as well, and lets face it, as a rule PH isnt Boxster heartland is it ? old ones maybe but who on here is really going to go and lash 50 grand on one, for a start those who have that kind of cash dont buy Boxsters on PH, most would spend it on an older 911, GTR or something else.
Are we objecting by and large because we would otherwise buy one or because in twenty years when they have migrated down we dont want a four cylinder ?
Well, if you've got £40 odd grand burning a hole in your pocket for something new, sporty and with an interesting engine but don't want ANOTHER 4 cylinder turbo, Ford will happily sell you a 400 bhp 5.0 V8 Mustang. Might not drive as deftly as the Boxster, but it has a far more soulful heart. And does burnouts...
Talking to our local OPC the average age of buyers of the Cayman/Boxster is actually more like 50+ than people in their 40s or 30s, which surprised me.
As a current 981 owner the extra torque and extra power don't really appeal or compensate for the perceived loss of character, engine/induction sound and change in nature of power delivery from dropping the N/A 6. This might be less of a concern for your average Boxster driver maybe but I think is a problem for the Cayman, which is supposedly more driver focussed. Will have to reserve judgement - if I get to drive one.
Porsche rarely miss a trick. I wonder if the change in pricing strategy is a reaction to their assessment that Cayman sales may suffer more from the switch to a blown 4 (it's already Porsche's lowest selling distinct model range if you exclude the 918) - i.e. make the Cayman more enticing by reducing the price vis-à-vis the outgoing model.
All we can hope for is that Porsche retain a 6 cylinder CGTS/BGTS and GT4/Spyder model. I think the latter is likely, but my guess would be the next generation CGTS/BGTS will be a more powerful version of the blown 4.
As a current 981 owner the extra torque and extra power don't really appeal or compensate for the perceived loss of character, engine/induction sound and change in nature of power delivery from dropping the N/A 6. This might be less of a concern for your average Boxster driver maybe but I think is a problem for the Cayman, which is supposedly more driver focussed. Will have to reserve judgement - if I get to drive one.
Porsche rarely miss a trick. I wonder if the change in pricing strategy is a reaction to their assessment that Cayman sales may suffer more from the switch to a blown 4 (it's already Porsche's lowest selling distinct model range if you exclude the 918) - i.e. make the Cayman more enticing by reducing the price vis-à-vis the outgoing model.
All we can hope for is that Porsche retain a 6 cylinder CGTS/BGTS and GT4/Spyder model. I think the latter is likely, but my guess would be the next generation CGTS/BGTS will be a more powerful version of the blown 4.
J4CKO said:
Dont knock it, its two less bores to score !
I suspect its actually better to drive having more torque and the ones I heard on the ring videos sounded pretty good.
Good looking as well, and lets face it, as a rule PH isnt Boxster heartland is it ? old ones maybe but who on here is really going to go and lash 50 grand on one, for a start those who have that kind of cash dont buy Boxsters on PH, most would spend it on an older 911, GTR or something else.
Are we objecting by and large because we would otherwise buy one or because in twenty years when they have migrated down we dont want a four cylinder ?
Since when did having more torque make a car better to drive? It's all about the delivery regardless of more or less torque!I suspect its actually better to drive having more torque and the ones I heard on the ring videos sounded pretty good.
Good looking as well, and lets face it, as a rule PH isnt Boxster heartland is it ? old ones maybe but who on here is really going to go and lash 50 grand on one, for a start those who have that kind of cash dont buy Boxsters on PH, most would spend it on an older 911, GTR or something else.
Are we objecting by and large because we would otherwise buy one or because in twenty years when they have migrated down we dont want a four cylinder ?
jamesaevans said:
The big unknown at this point is how much weight they have saved by downsizing from 6 cylinders to 4. If power is up and weight is down this could be a really good car assuming the turbo engine has a good response and makes a great noise. If not the last of the 6 cylinder Boxster and Cayman are going to hold their value very well as used cars.
According the figures quoted in the article all models have actually increased in weight by 15kg??Personally the lack of a 6 cylinder engine would put me off. I think they should use a detuned version of the base 991.2 engine for the cayman and boxster S. If BMW can make the numbers work on the M135 then surely Porsche could have done the same with the boxster to offer a 6 cylinder option?No wonder they are the most profitable car company in the world...
Some Gump said:
I love this "contrived noise" concept.
I say that because most interesting cars have had contrived noise for a long time. My rs4 has an S button (basically a w
ker button) that opens a flap to bypass a silencer. This doesn't give any gain whatsoever in performance (although Audi use the same switch to change he throttle map, which makes it feel like it does). Can you get any more contrived than that? No-one complained tho.
Tim Schrick did! Agree with him, too. I say that because most interesting cars have had contrived noise for a long time. My rs4 has an S button (basically a w
ker button) that opens a flap to bypass a silencer. This doesn't give any gain whatsoever in performance (although Audi use the same switch to change he throttle map, which makes it feel like it does). Can you get any more contrived than that? No-one complained tho.GroundEffect said:
PGM said:
It is a petrol engine though, able to rev higher, that is where the power band takes over, surely? Torque at bottom, power at top?
That's not how engines work.I felt that Porsche absolutely nailed the looks of the Boxster with the 981. but sorry, the 718 looks like a step backwards (maybe it will look better in the metal).
Edited by velocgee on Wednesday 27th January 13:26
I think many are a bit dismissive about the average Porsche Boxster owner.
They have deliberately chosen the car with only two seats, a sporting pedigree and i think they know how many cylinders it has. not all but most.
Put one of these in a car park and it will attract massive attention way beyond its price tag because it looks fantastic, drives brilliantly and it is a Porsche and that is a huge draw.
Despite what many say, Porsche is still very much seen as an aspirational brand so to get in a brand new one that has 300 BHP, hits 60 in 5 seconds and returns 30 MPG is quite something for £41,000. it is a bargain i think.
A poster above said he would wait until the S was 15k in 5 years time, I really can't see that happening.
They have deliberately chosen the car with only two seats, a sporting pedigree and i think they know how many cylinders it has. not all but most.
Put one of these in a car park and it will attract massive attention way beyond its price tag because it looks fantastic, drives brilliantly and it is a Porsche and that is a huge draw.
Despite what many say, Porsche is still very much seen as an aspirational brand so to get in a brand new one that has 300 BHP, hits 60 in 5 seconds and returns 30 MPG is quite something for £41,000. it is a bargain i think.
A poster above said he would wait until the S was 15k in 5 years time, I really can't see that happening.
vz-r_dave said:
J4CKO said:
Dont knock it, its two less bores to score !
I suspect its actually better to drive having more torque and the ones I heard on the ring videos sounded pretty good.
Good looking as well, and lets face it, as a rule PH isnt Boxster heartland is it ? old ones maybe but who on here is really going to go and lash 50 grand on one, for a start those who have that kind of cash dont buy Boxsters on PH, most would spend it on an older 911, GTR or something else.
Are we objecting by and large because we would otherwise buy one or because in twenty years when they have migrated down we dont want a four cylinder ?
Since when did having more torque make a car better to drive? It's all about the delivery regardless of more or less torque!I suspect its actually better to drive having more torque and the ones I heard on the ring videos sounded pretty good.
Good looking as well, and lets face it, as a rule PH isnt Boxster heartland is it ? old ones maybe but who on here is really going to go and lash 50 grand on one, for a start those who have that kind of cash dont buy Boxsters on PH, most would spend it on an older 911, GTR or something else.
Are we objecting by and large because we would otherwise buy one or because in twenty years when they have migrated down we dont want a four cylinder ?
I reckon they know what they are doing, but they did sign the Panamera and CaYenne styling off, so who knows.
Gandahar said:
GroundEffect said:
That's a VERY good looking car. I didn't think they could improve on the 981.
I very much doubt it.Gandahar said:
They put a cheaper engine in and then put the prices up by 5% and more....
The turbo unit is probably more expensive than the flat 6.What's all the moaning about guys and gals?
It looks great, will go like stink, be fuel efficient and be sensible to run with decent residuals. I've bought new a 2.5 Boxster in 1997 with just 205 BHP and not much torque and it cost me £38,000 back then!
Appreciate that the 917 is £42k+ car (most will PCP/lease anyway) but it will be an amazing drive to live with day to day.
It's got the same power as the last of the 3.3 930 Turbos for goodness sake
And and I'm sure it will sound great too, no doubt with crackles and pops plus a flat4 burble.
It looks great, will go like stink, be fuel efficient and be sensible to run with decent residuals. I've bought new a 2.5 Boxster in 1997 with just 205 BHP and not much torque and it cost me £38,000 back then!
Appreciate that the 917 is £42k+ car (most will PCP/lease anyway) but it will be an amazing drive to live with day to day.
It's got the same power as the last of the 3.3 930 Turbos for goodness sake
And and I'm sure it will sound great too, no doubt with crackles and pops plus a flat4 burble.
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