FIAT 500 - gearbox failure at 30,000 miles. Dealer sorts it?
Discussion
Hey all, one of those 'what would you do?' threads again...
I have here a '12 plate Fiat 500 of a family members, it's done 30,000 miles, and the gearbox has failed, in that it's making a massive amount of clattering and whining noise under any load - sounds like the input shaft bearing after having a good look around it.
Anyway, I've dropped 500ml of oil out of the box just for a quick confirm and the oil is indeed full of long flakes that look like spalling from a bearing race, so I decided not to touch it and get them to contact the dealer - after all, a gearbox shouldn't be dying at 30k regardless of warranty period, right?
Dealer has basically just washed all hands of it saying its out of warranty now and not their problem. I'm of the opinion he should try and push it further with FIAT UK, but he's wonder whether to just cut his losses and have me fit a secondhand box, etc, to get him back on the road asap.
I'd like a few second opinions - is it just a 'tough, suck it up' or does he have a reasonable complaint to go FIAT with here?
I have here a '12 plate Fiat 500 of a family members, it's done 30,000 miles, and the gearbox has failed, in that it's making a massive amount of clattering and whining noise under any load - sounds like the input shaft bearing after having a good look around it.
Anyway, I've dropped 500ml of oil out of the box just for a quick confirm and the oil is indeed full of long flakes that look like spalling from a bearing race, so I decided not to touch it and get them to contact the dealer - after all, a gearbox shouldn't be dying at 30k regardless of warranty period, right?
Dealer has basically just washed all hands of it saying its out of warranty now and not their problem. I'm of the opinion he should try and push it further with FIAT UK, but he's wonder whether to just cut his losses and have me fit a secondhand box, etc, to get him back on the road asap.
I'd like a few second opinions - is it just a 'tough, suck it up' or does he have a reasonable complaint to go FIAT with here?
Generally speaking the Dealer may go in to bat for you with the manufacturer if they supplied the car in the first place and they've always done the servicing on it. They may get something on goodwill from them, they may not. They may also help you out with a goodwill gesture themselves like discounted labour if you're a long-standing customer.
If you bought the car elsewhere and have never been to this Dealership before then there's no reason why they should help out really, goodwill goes both ways...
If you bought the car elsewhere and have never been to this Dealership before then there's no reason why they should help out really, goodwill goes both ways...
Rich1973 said:
I have never particularly felt the urge to buy a Kia or Hyundai, but when 7 years warranty is available its a bitter pill to be told 'not interested' on a gearbox failure of such a new low mileage car.
Willing to bet your friend won't be so keen on a Fiat again. Poor form.
If the failure's determined to be down to poor driving, rather than a component failure, then Kia or Hyundai will hand the owner of a 3.5yo, 30k car a bill, too.Willing to bet your friend won't be so keen on a Fiat again. Poor form.
I'm not entirely sure how you'd have an input bearing failure from poor driving to be honest. Syncro's I could understand, possibly, if you drove like a complete ape, diff maybe if you clouted a kerb really hard under power - but they're all fine - and the metal in the oil isn't yellow metal or moly from synchros:
Edited by PhillipM on Wednesday 27th January 19:25
AS most said, bit of a waste of time chasing this, Fiat UK being pretty evasive, they won't commit to anything unless the dealers diagnosed it and taken the 'box off, even if assuming it's definately the input bearings* they won't give a guideline or rough idea as to whether they'd help out or not.
So basically, cost of transport to the dealer, a diagnostic scan (not sure why they insist it needs a £70-80 diagnostic scan, there's nothing going to show up a gearbox fault in the sensor system...) and £2200 to replace the gearbox, and halfway through Fiat might or might not contribute....very helpful.
*Not sure what else they think it's going to be given it sounds like a brick in a blender and the gearbox oil is chock full of steel particles...I've just drained a 100k, 16 year old Jag gearbox and it was spotless. The 500's looks like it's unrefined crude...
So basically, cost of transport to the dealer, a diagnostic scan (not sure why they insist it needs a £70-80 diagnostic scan, there's nothing going to show up a gearbox fault in the sensor system...) and £2200 to replace the gearbox, and halfway through Fiat might or might not contribute....very helpful.
*Not sure what else they think it's going to be given it sounds like a brick in a blender and the gearbox oil is chock full of steel particles...I've just drained a 100k, 16 year old Jag gearbox and it was spotless. The 500's looks like it's unrefined crude...
Edited by PhillipM on Wednesday 10th February 12:10
It shouldn't happen and it's no excuse, but less unpleasantness, anxiety, stress and time will be lost by just fitting a 2nd hand gearbox.
From a business point of view, I don't blame the dealer in wanting nothing to do with it. They didn't build the faulty car - if it's anyones' responsibility to rectify the issue at their cost, it's not the dealer. Fiat UK may possibly be shamed in to it but it'll probably be a slog.
If it were me, I'd start with Fiat UK with a well-written (factual, well laid out and written in good English) correspondence and see what sort of response you get. If it's positive, great. If it's negative, post it on their Twitter page with a big "f
k you" and get on with the 2nd hand 'box.
From a business point of view, I don't blame the dealer in wanting nothing to do with it. They didn't build the faulty car - if it's anyones' responsibility to rectify the issue at their cost, it's not the dealer. Fiat UK may possibly be shamed in to it but it'll probably be a slog.
If it were me, I'd start with Fiat UK with a well-written (factual, well laid out and written in good English) correspondence and see what sort of response you get. If it's positive, great. If it's negative, post it on their Twitter page with a big "f
k you" and get on with the 2nd hand 'box.Not usually a fan of this but... social media shaming is the answer. 30k miles, never buying another FIAT, etc.
Regardless of warranty, a gearbox should not be failing after 30,000 miles. st design shouldn't be tolerated. Swapping out for a 2nd hand one will probably be less aggro, but the industry will never move on unless they feel a bit of pain.
Regardless of warranty, a gearbox should not be failing after 30,000 miles. s
t design shouldn't be tolerated. Swapping out for a 2nd hand one will probably be less aggro, but the industry will never move on unless they feel a bit of pain.jamieduff1981 said:
It shouldn't happen and it's no excuse, but less unpleasantness, anxiety, stress and time will be lost by just fitting a 2nd hand gearbox.
From a business point of view, I don't blame the dealer in wanting nothing to do with it. They didn't build the faulty car - if it's anyones' responsibility to rectify the issue at their cost, it's not the dealer. Fiat UK may possibly be shamed in to it but it'll probably be a slog.
If it were me, I'd start with Fiat UK with a well-written (factual, well laid out and written in good English) correspondence and see what sort of response you get. If it's positive, great. If it's negative, post it on their Twitter page with a big "fk you" and get on with the 2nd hand 'box.
I've already been in touch with Fiat UK, it was them that said they won't even consider anything until the dealer has removed the gearbox to check, they won't even discuss what they might do even if that was assumed as the problem.From a business point of view, I don't blame the dealer in wanting nothing to do with it. They didn't build the faulty car - if it's anyones' responsibility to rectify the issue at their cost, it's not the dealer. Fiat UK may possibly be shamed in to it but it'll probably be a slog.
If it were me, I'd start with Fiat UK with a well-written (factual, well laid out and written in good English) correspondence and see what sort of response you get. If it's positive, great. If it's negative, post it on their Twitter page with a big "f
k you" and get on with the 2nd hand 'box.As you say, it's going to get the box pulled and refurbed, less hassle. But I might take plenty of pictures to tag Fiat in...
PhillipM said:
I've already been in touch with Fiat UK, it was them that said they won't even consider anything until the dealer has removed the gearbox to check
Which is hardly unexpected or unfair, is it?I suspect that the reality would be that the box will be pulled and sent to Fiat for investigation. In the meantime, a recon box will be fitted, and you'll be handed a bill, which Fiat might then reimburse you a proportion of, depending on the results of the investigation.
Isn't it? It's an input bearing failure on a 30,000 mile old box. It's hardly from lack of servicing or abuse is it?
What I'd expect is for them to go "if it's a manufacturing fault with the gearbox, we'll swap the box for free if you cover the labour, if it's abuse, you get the bill" - not a reply of "Well, we might, or might not, we can't discuss it yet. Maybe."
What I'd expect is for them to go "if it's a manufacturing fault with the gearbox, we'll swap the box for free if you cover the labour, if it's abuse, you get the bill" - not a reply of "Well, we might, or might not, we can't discuss it yet. Maybe."
TooMany2cvs said:
If the failure's determined to be down to poor driving, rather than a component failure, then Kia or Hyundai will hand the owner of a 3.5yo, 30k car a bill, too.
Not sure Kia would, I know a master tech at one of the Kia dealers and they seam extremely reasonable on their warranty claims from what he says. 
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