RE: Ferrari 360Challenge Stradale : Spotted
Discussion
What a load of uninformed nonsense there is on this thread. The majority of the people commenting have no first hand/relevant experience of the cars themselves or an understanding of the classic car or Ferrari market. The CS has a special place in the Ferrari line-up as the car that made the “race car for the road” the norm for forseeable production going forward, which is because it was/is so highly regarded. People may argue that that accolade should go to the 348 Competizione, but for whatever reason, that didn’t happen.
Pretty much every review of the CS in the press was a glowing recommendation from bufoons like Clarkson to established journalists. Anyone who tries to argue that it is a “jumped up 360”, is simply demonstrating a lack of knowledge. The CS is firmly set as one of the most collectible cars of its generation, across any marque. It is a simple fact that collectible Ferraris have a proven track record in an investment context. The reality is that there are more wealthy collectors these days chasing a finite number of cars.
No wonder that those in the know, including owners and experts don’t comment on threads like this. Classic case of pearls before swine and "have nots" being vitriolic.
Pretty much every review of the CS in the press was a glowing recommendation from bufoons like Clarkson to established journalists. Anyone who tries to argue that it is a “jumped up 360”, is simply demonstrating a lack of knowledge. The CS is firmly set as one of the most collectible cars of its generation, across any marque. It is a simple fact that collectible Ferraris have a proven track record in an investment context. The reality is that there are more wealthy collectors these days chasing a finite number of cars.
No wonder that those in the know, including owners and experts don’t comment on threads like this. Classic case of pearls before swine and "have nots" being vitriolic.
Ffffaster said:
No wonder that those in the know, including owners and experts don’t comment on threads like this. Classic case of pearls before swine and "have nots" being vitriolic.
yeah, most of the owners here on PH bought their cars early on at sane prices.I wonder how many of them would actually buy at today's cost?
Ffffaster said:
What a load of uninformed nonsense there is on this thread. The majority of the people commenting have no first hand/relevant experience of the cars themselves or an understanding of the classic car or Ferrari market. The CS has a special place in the Ferrari line-up as the car that made the “race car for the road” the norm for forseeable production going forward, which is because it was/is so highly regarded. People may argue that that accolade should go to the 348 Competizione, but for whatever reason, that didn’t happen.
Pretty much every review of the CS in the press was a glowing recommendation from bufoons like Clarkson to established journalists. Anyone who tries to argue that it is a “jumped up 360”, is simply demonstrating a lack of knowledge. The CS is firmly set as one of the most collectible cars of its generation, across any marque. It is a simple fact that collectible Ferraris have a proven track record in an investment context. The reality is that there are more wealthy collectors these days chasing a finite number of cars.
No wonder that those in the know, including owners and experts don’t comment on threads like this. Classic case of pearls before swine and "have nots" being vitriolic.
I am sure you may be correct, but it would be difficult to sound any more unpleasant whilst going about it, good job, if you are part of that world, you can keep it.Pretty much every review of the CS in the press was a glowing recommendation from bufoons like Clarkson to established journalists. Anyone who tries to argue that it is a “jumped up 360”, is simply demonstrating a lack of knowledge. The CS is firmly set as one of the most collectible cars of its generation, across any marque. It is a simple fact that collectible Ferraris have a proven track record in an investment context. The reality is that there are more wealthy collectors these days chasing a finite number of cars.
No wonder that those in the know, including owners and experts don’t comment on threads like this. Classic case of pearls before swine and "have nots" being vitriolic.
Slickhillsy said:
Link??? Dont believe this for a second...
http://www.angliacarauctions.co.uk/en/classic-auctions/latest-classic-car-catalogue/saturday-23rd-january/2002-ferrari-f1-360-modena/Highest bid on this fugly one was £34k. I reckon it needed £20k spending, so probably about £50k for a ropey LHD one is about right.
Nope, I genuinely find the 360CS ugly and have no desire to own one at any price.
I owned an F355 back in the late 90's and had no interest in the 360 when it came out back then either.
I would, of course, like to have had a 360CS in the garage for the past 5 years but that is purely about money, and I would be only too glad to sell it at today's ludicrous prices.
The only way anyone would buy a 360CS now is if they believe (somehow) it will appreciate further. It's all about the money, very little to do with the car at this point.
To deny that is simply demonstrating a rather delicate grasp on reality.
I owned an F355 back in the late 90's and had no interest in the 360 when it came out back then either.
I would, of course, like to have had a 360CS in the garage for the past 5 years but that is purely about money, and I would be only too glad to sell it at today's ludicrous prices.
The only way anyone would buy a 360CS now is if they believe (somehow) it will appreciate further. It's all about the money, very little to do with the car at this point.
To deny that is simply demonstrating a rather delicate grasp on reality.
Gandahar said:
None of the flat crank V8's in Ferrari's sound that good in my opinion. There is a difference between loud and good sounding. The V12 Ferrari's on the other hand.
To me the 360CS is right up there with the greatest sounding cars I've heardcat with a hat said:
Leins said:
cat with a hat said:
Do people forget what a disappointment the 360 was?
360CS won Autocar's Performance COTY 2003, beating the 996 GT3 & M3 CSLYou do realise that at the time you could purchase both a 996 gt3 and an m3 csl... and still few thousand left instead of buying a 360cs.
Edited by Leins on Friday 29th January 12:56
No need to drive a car, let alone own it to have opinion wether you like the way it looks and sounds.
These are opinions informed by the eyes and ears, no need to hold the keys.
Just talk on a forum, don't take anything here too seriously except bullying and abusive behaviour.
Certainly an environment at the moment where the have's are sitting pretty while the have not's have not a chance.
These are opinions informed by the eyes and ears, no need to hold the keys.
Just talk on a forum, don't take anything here too seriously except bullying and abusive behaviour.
Certainly an environment at the moment where the have's are sitting pretty while the have not's have not a chance.
Edited by stephen300o on Friday 29th January 13:42
It does seem to be a predictable formula, take a run of the mill performance model, make it a bit stiffer, a bit nosier, a bit lighter and give it a token amount more power, oh and you must add the letters C and S, optional throw in an L, that makes anything worth several times more than the one that is based on.
Then it becomes a chariot of the gods that mere mortals are not allowed to gaze upon, where the normal model is regarded as fit only for the Swine.
Why dont manufacturers make them all like this ? I am sure all the CS's and CSL's are more focused but I cant get my head round it being worth several times more, I can understand a premium but just seems its got a bit daft and its more about investment that a slightly pointer version, more about other people not being able to have one and being part of an exclusive club, then never driving it.
Then it becomes a chariot of the gods that mere mortals are not allowed to gaze upon, where the normal model is regarded as fit only for the Swine.
Why dont manufacturers make them all like this ? I am sure all the CS's and CSL's are more focused but I cant get my head round it being worth several times more, I can understand a premium but just seems its got a bit daft and its more about investment that a slightly pointer version, more about other people not being able to have one and being part of an exclusive club, then never driving it.
J4CKO said:
It does seem to be a predictable formula, take a run of the mill performance model, make it a bit stiffer, a bit nosier, a bit lighter and give it a token amount more power, oh and you must add the letters C and S, optional throw in an L, that makes anything worth several times more than the one that is based on.
Then it becomes a chariot of the gods that mere mortals are not allowed to gaze upon, where the normal model is regarded as fit only for the Swine.
Why dont manufacturers make them all like this ? I am sure all the CS's and CSL's are more focused but I cant get my head round it being worth several times more, I can understand a premium but just seems its got a bit daft and its more about investment that a slightly pointer version, more about other people not being able to have one and being part of an exclusive club, then never driving it.
They all are significantly different from the "base" model, but in the case of the CSL there are things it doesn't do as well as the standard car. I suspect the same might be true of the 360CS. However, rarity and "specialness" do need to be factored in to the pricing to some degreeThen it becomes a chariot of the gods that mere mortals are not allowed to gaze upon, where the normal model is regarded as fit only for the Swine.
Why dont manufacturers make them all like this ? I am sure all the CS's and CSL's are more focused but I cant get my head round it being worth several times more, I can understand a premium but just seems its got a bit daft and its more about investment that a slightly pointer version, more about other people not being able to have one and being part of an exclusive club, then never driving it.
However, I do agree that when it gets to the point where the cars aren't being driven at all then it's all a bit silly. Such cars should only exist a single example in the manufacturer's museum IMO
Leins said:
Gandahar said:
None of the flat crank V8's in Ferrari's sound that good in my opinion. There is a difference between loud and good sounding. The V12 Ferrari's on the other hand.
To me the 360CS is right up there with the greatest sounding cars I've heardcat with a hat said:
Leins said:
cat with a hat said:
Do people forget what a disappointment the 360 was?
360CS won Autocar's Performance COTY 2003, beating the 996 GT3 & M3 CSLYou do realise that at the time you could purchase both a 996 gt3 and an m3 csl... and still few thousand left instead of buying a 360cs.
Edited by Leins on Friday 29th January 12:56
The point is right now I'd rather own a 996 GT3, m3 CSL, lotus 2-eleven, delta evo s2 and a £100,000 super car than a 360cs.
The 360cs was design to sit in a completely different class to the 996 gt3 and m3 csl..
The former has 'supercar' underpinning the latter are built on sporty coupes used as daily drivers.
Edited by cat with a hat on Friday 29th January 14:31
cat with a hat said:
Compare apples with Apples..
The point is right now I'd rather own a 996 GT3, m3 CSL, lotus 2-eleven, delta evo s2 and a £100,000 super car than a 360cs.
Fair enough, I probably would too. But why does that mean the 360CS was necessarily a disappointment, which I presume was the point of your original post? All I was trying to show was that IIRC it wasn't viewed as such when newThe point is right now I'd rather own a 996 GT3, m3 CSL, lotus 2-eleven, delta evo s2 and a £100,000 super car than a 360cs.
Leins said:
cat with a hat said:
Compare apples with Apples..
The point is right now I'd rather own a 996 GT3, m3 CSL, lotus 2-eleven, delta evo s2 and a £100,000 super car than a 360cs.
Fair enough, I probably would too. But why does that mean the 360CS was necessarily a disappointment, which I presume was the point of your original post? All I was trying to show was that IIRC it wasn't viewed as such when newThe point is right now I'd rather own a 996 GT3, m3 CSL, lotus 2-eleven, delta evo s2 and a £100,000 super car than a 360cs.
Just think how silly M3 csl and 996 GT3 prices have gone because of their desirability and legendary status.. Yet combined, they are still only a fraction of the price.
Either they are massively under valued OR it indicates that the Ferrari prices have been manipulated/people are completely off their rocker.
cat with a hat said:
Leins said:
cat with a hat said:
Compare apples with Apples..
The point is right now I'd rather own a 996 GT3, m3 CSL, lotus 2-eleven, delta evo s2 and a £100,000 super car than a 360cs.
Fair enough, I probably would too. But why does that mean the 360CS was necessarily a disappointment, which I presume was the point of your original post? All I was trying to show was that IIRC it wasn't viewed as such when newThe point is right now I'd rather own a 996 GT3, m3 CSL, lotus 2-eleven, delta evo s2 and a £100,000 super car than a 360cs.
Just think how silly M3 csl and 996 GT3 prices have gone because of their desirability and legendary status.. Yet combined, they are still only a fraction of the price.
Either they are massively under valued OR it indicates that the Ferrari prices have been manipulated/people are completely off their rocker.
Edited by stephen300o on Friday 29th January 15:16
Leins said:
J4CKO said:
It does seem to be a predictable formula, take a run of the mill performance model, make it a bit stiffer, a bit nosier, a bit lighter and give it a token amount more power, oh and you must add the letters C and S, optional throw in an L, that makes anything worth several times more than the one that is based on.
Then it becomes a chariot of the gods that mere mortals are not allowed to gaze upon, where the normal model is regarded as fit only for the Swine.
Why dont manufacturers make them all like this ? I am sure all the CS's and CSL's are more focused but I cant get my head round it being worth several times more, I can understand a premium but just seems its got a bit daft and its more about investment that a slightly pointer version, more about other people not being able to have one and being part of an exclusive club, then never driving it.
They all are significantly different from the "base" model, but in the case of the CSL there are things it doesn't do as well as the standard car. I suspect the same might be true of the 360CS. However, rarity and "specialness" do need to be factored in to the pricing to some degreeThen it becomes a chariot of the gods that mere mortals are not allowed to gaze upon, where the normal model is regarded as fit only for the Swine.
Why dont manufacturers make them all like this ? I am sure all the CS's and CSL's are more focused but I cant get my head round it being worth several times more, I can understand a premium but just seems its got a bit daft and its more about investment that a slightly pointer version, more about other people not being able to have one and being part of an exclusive club, then never driving it.
However, I do agree that when it gets to the point where the cars aren't being driven at all then it's all a bit silly. Such cars should only exist a single example in the manufacturer's museum IMO
The carbon brakes would be more difficult to replicate if not already fitted, not impossible but I suspect a full on aftermarket replacement would be more viable.
Throttle mapping, have changed that on cars before, not that hard to get done.
20 bhp improvement in power, cant be that difficult.
I know the end result wouldnt be a Challenge Stradale, but I bet you could get pretty close, as long as the base car didnt have the F1 gearbox, would help to have the genuine article nearby as a reference.
Or just buy a 458 Speciale for less, accepting you have missed the boat on this one ?
stephen300o said:
Thinking that any Porsche or BMW is going to make Ferrari money is crazy. Some just won't accept that Ferrari are the pinnacle of collectable car..
(At the risk of having missed a disappearing bird...) Go back a model generation or two, and you will find that the asking price of an E30 M3 Sport Evo now is similar to that 348GTC I posted earlier, and you'd hardly be able to buy half a 964 RS for that £100k these dayscat with a hat said:
Either they are massively under valued OR it indicates that the Ferrari prices have been manipulated/people are completely off their rocker.
Agree with it or not but Ferrari are the top brand by a mile when it comes to supercars. They are the most desirable and the most collectable irrespective of whether they are actually the best car in their class.The real legendary cars like the GTO and LM are never going to crash in price as there are so few of them and there will always be more than enough super rich who want them but the lower value cars have gone crazy e.g 575 Super Americas going for £600K+ which can't last.
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