RE: Is there hope for the 718 Boxster? PH Blog
Discussion
HighwayStar said:
GreenArrow said:
I guarantee that EVO and Autocar will give it a five star rating and ignore the increase in kerb weight and loss of n/a response....Porsche will sell a shed load more cars which is good, but I really do mourn the loss of the n/a engine.
As far as I can see, if Mazda can still give us a n/a MX-5, by shedding weight and keeping It simple, surely Porsche, the most successful sports car company in history can too....
Trouble is, with these mega hot hatches churning out 350 BHP now, the market demands that Porsche keep pace and I guess a n/a Boxster would feel slow compared with, say an RS3 or the new Focus RS.
I don't so much about EVO but I don't believe Autocar are that bad... Last year they did a TTS, Cayman & M235i group test with the Cayman winning and the TTS last. TT forum mumbers were pi$$ed because the TTS was faster 0-60 and in the mid range which is true. Autocar's reasoning though was the Cayman was a better sports car. They don't just go by the numbers. I'd imagine the 718 will still win any group test, inspite of it going turbo, because it will likely be way better than what little competition there is.As far as I can see, if Mazda can still give us a n/a MX-5, by shedding weight and keeping It simple, surely Porsche, the most successful sports car company in history can too....
Trouble is, with these mega hot hatches churning out 350 BHP now, the market demands that Porsche keep pace and I guess a n/a Boxster would feel slow compared with, say an RS3 or the new Focus RS.
remember the reason some of us on here are saying slightly negative things is because we lament the passing of driver-focused cars and fully respect Porsche's achievements and legacy.
so what on earth were you doing on a TT forum??
CABC said:
all true.
remember the reason some of us on here are saying slightly negative things is because we lament the passing of driver-focused cars and fully respect Porsche's achievements and legacy.
so what on earth were you doing on a TT forum??
Oh I know know what Porsche are (were?) all about. I've read the whole thread, 'slightly' negative comments and all.remember the reason some of us on here are saying slightly negative things is because we lament the passing of driver-focused cars and fully respect Porsche's achievements and legacy.
so what on earth were you doing on a TT forum??
I'm looking at bagging me a 981 Cayman S, I've loved everything about that car from the moment it arrived.
Why was I on the TT forum... I have a mk2 TTS, yesssss I know all the it's shortcomings etc. I knew them when I bought it. It was a compromise for me, cheaper running costs etc. Now I'm one of those mentioned earlier, no mortgage and spare cash. I can now get a car I can really enjoy. And I'm not a city dweller
CABC said:
HighwayStar said:
I can now get a car I can really enjoy.
i hadn't looked at your garage...so, when are you trading up?
The thing is, I'm actively looking so you can see where I'm headed.
And yes... It's definitely trading up. Like others I'm wondering if the NA models may rise in value a little bit. I'm thinking it more likely used prices will hold up more more than rise.
HighwayStar said:
If I'm honest I'm not sure, it's the usual conundrum.... Pension, buy a flat or I've got one life I could be dead tomorrow. Even previously enjoyed a decently optioned 981 Cayman S is a big chunk of wedge. It's the car I'd keep.
The thing is, I'm actively looking so you can see where I'm headed.
And yes... It's definitely trading up. Like others I'm wondering if the NA models may rise in value a little bit. I'm thinking it more likely used prices will hold up more more than rise.
making money in cars is very rare, it's usually man maths discounting all the upkeep costs!The thing is, I'm actively looking so you can see where I'm headed.
And yes... It's definitely trading up. Like others I'm wondering if the NA models may rise in value a little bit. I'm thinking it more likely used prices will hold up more more than rise.
But if it's our hobby then we can surely be a bit smart and avoid heavy depreciation. Many would hope that 'old school' Pork - by which i mean 6 pot NA, yet still water cooled! - should hold up well, but i wonder given so many have been produced. GT series probably the place to look, they're already strong, but will keep so in to the future i think.
Lotus? latest have been tightened up very nicely.
juansolo said:
History would show us that a Boxster/Cayman is not a sound financial investment in terms of depreciation...
If the new engine holds together slightly better then residuals for the newer ones could be better, but it's still unlikely to be any kind of investment. I remember a few years back someone advising me to buy one of the early Boxsters as the 'cheap' ones would soon dry up. Fast forward five years, no real difference. CABC said:
making money in cars is very rare, it's usually man maths discounting all the upkeep costs!
But if it's our hobby then we can surely be a bit smart and avoid heavy depreciation. Many would hope that 'old school' Pork - by which i mean 6 pot NA, yet still water cooled! - should hold up well, but i wonder given so many have been produced. GT series probably the place to look, they're already strong, but will keep so in to the future i think.
Lotus? latest have been tightened up very nicely.
Car/investment... Hell no, I don't have the wherewithal to acquire a car that would be an appreciating asset. But if it's our hobby then we can surely be a bit smart and avoid heavy depreciation. Many would hope that 'old school' Pork - by which i mean 6 pot NA, yet still water cooled! - should hold up well, but i wonder given so many have been produced. GT series probably the place to look, they're already strong, but will keep so in to the future i think.
Lotus? latest have been tightened up very nicely.
I was thinking in terms would I have to pay slightly more than I was thinking to get a 981 that's all, which I don't think would be the case incidently. So no, wasn't thinking in investment terms.
Lotus... Very nice but I have serious want for a Cayman S. Manual!
I had a Cayman S for two years and it lost 10% of its value. It's nonsense to suggest that Caymans and Boxsters don't hold value well.
Anyone who has actually driven a 987 or 981 and loves driving will be very sad to see the 6-pots go. Glorious sounding engines in that layout.
But I agree with Cmoose that most buyers just want easy torque and never use the revs. If you drive a NA flat 6 like a turbo diesel, it isn't very exciting or fast, and you don't hear the engine anyway. You need 4500 revs in a 987/981 before it starts to sound great, and you need even more in a 911.
Anyone who has actually driven a 987 or 981 and loves driving will be very sad to see the 6-pots go. Glorious sounding engines in that layout.
But I agree with Cmoose that most buyers just want easy torque and never use the revs. If you drive a NA flat 6 like a turbo diesel, it isn't very exciting or fast, and you don't hear the engine anyway. You need 4500 revs in a 987/981 before it starts to sound great, and you need even more in a 911.
When I bought my car I could have got a 993 C2 manual for £25k (hindsight *cries*), A Evora for about £35k and I got the Cayman for £30k. When I sold it 6 years later (8 year old car), still in staggeringly good condition with around 30k on the clock I got £16k for it, at the same time the Evora would now be worth £30k and the C2 £50k+ So, in my experience, yeah, they depreciate like a b
d in comparison to similar cars
I didn't regret it for a second for what it's worth.
d in comparison to similar cars I didn't regret it for a second for what it's worth.
ORD said:
You're comparing it to two exceptional cars! Jesus wept.
What else would you like to compare it to? Could you have predicted that the Lotus would hold it's value so well considering how relatively unpopular it was? Also that for some bizarre reason 911's would go stratospheric in value, given for all it's life up to this point (some 40 years of it), it hadn't been known for what was to come?They're the peers that I considered when I bought mine and it faired worse by a massive margin when it came to depreciation. Really don't understand how you can say that Cayman/Boxsters hold their value when with the exception of the Spyders, they simply don't.
Like I say, I'm not talking about the car itself, just the financial value and the fact that going by history, they're not a car you choose because they hold their value well.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
*sigh*OK, it doesn't depreciate, it's f
king gold.JFC. I know the cars I was considering when I bought it. There were Evoras at £35k because I f
king looked at them. These were the cars I considered for my budget. The 997 WASN'T in my budget at the time, the 993 was.I'm out, this is why I don't bother with PH any more. I really should just ignore this f
king forum.I really liked the 981.1 Boxster & Cayman. I'm not that keen on the external changes on the facelift if I'm honest. Rather fussy and unnecessary. Regarding the engine change - we'll have to wait and see what it's like, before passing judgement, but I own a Z4MC and the engine is very important to me. It's one the main reasons I love owning it. I could sell it and buy a hot hatch now that will be quicker but it's already plenty fast enough and with the addition of an Eventuri intake it sounds fantastic.
I've done 10k miles in my Golf R and really like the turbo and AWD set up and even the DSG would be my choice for my next car. I enjoy every drive of the car and it really has got character, it's obviously different to a RWD V6 manual but I suggest that anyone who is doubtful should spend some time with the new breed of drivers cars, they will be pleasantly surprised
^^ Dead right. Great cars, great value.
As for the comment someone made earlier about depreciation, well, guess what? Typical new cars depreciate 50% of their cost in the first three years. If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen.
Mid-engined sports cars are not investments - they are for
enjoyment! And I anticipate 718 may prove a worthy successor to the astoundingly good 981.
As for the comment someone made earlier about depreciation, well, guess what? Typical new cars depreciate 50% of their cost in the first three years. If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen.
Mid-engined sports cars are not investments - they are for
enjoyment! And I anticipate 718 may prove a worthy successor to the astoundingly good 981.DUMBO100 said:
I've done 10k miles in my Golf R and really like the turbo and AWD set up and even the DSG would be my choice for my next car. I enjoy every drive of the car and it really has got character, it's obviously different to a RWD V6 manual but I suggest that anyone who is doubtful should spend some time with the new breed of drivers cars, they will be pleasantly surprised
Is it possible to have just one Golf R free thread? If suggest you try a Boxster or any other balanced rwd (V6?) car. Chalk and cheese. However it'll soon be the Focus vs everything, perhaps I should be thankful for the peace and quiet in the meantime.
yonex said:
DUMBO100 said:
I've done 10k miles in my Golf R and really like the turbo and AWD set up and even the DSG would be my choice for my next car. I enjoy every drive of the car and it really has got character, it's obviously different to a RWD V6 manual but I suggest that anyone who is doubtful should spend some time with the new breed of drivers cars, they will be pleasantly surprised
Is it possible to have just one Golf R free thread? If suggest you try a Boxster or any other balanced rwd (V6?) car. Chalk and cheese. However it'll soon be the Focus vs everything, perhaps I should be thankful for the peace and quiet in the meantime.
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