RE: Is there hope for the 718 Boxster? PH Blog

[FourRingedDonuts]

I'm going to make a wild and slightly tongue in-cheek judgement.......

I bet most Boxster owners only know what engine they have because it's written on the back of the car.
And I very rarely encounter any Porsche driver driving anywhere near spirited in the real world so I don't think how it drives matters much either.

I bet it'll be a weapon in the right hands though so I still think Porsche know what their doing despite the marketing muscle that goes on today.

[Tuna]

Wait, how much does it weigh?

MX 5	998 kg
Exige	1125 kg
Audi TT	1230 kg
Boxster	1400 kg

There seems to be a certain set of posters who're gutted to find out that the Boxster was never aimed at them anyway, but anyone who thought Porsche was a *sports car* company, rather than just a car company that happened to make sports cars really hasn't been paying attention. How many people seriously bought the Boxster purely for performance and handling?

[jayemm89]

I am going to make an educated guess that this new motor shares some architecture with the new six pot. It's two-thirds the capacity from two-thirds the cylinder count so seems unlikely to be coincidence.

It isn't unusual for a manufacturer to release a massively new engine without really doing much to the chassis, or vice versa - I gather the benefits of this step-change will really be felt in the next generation car.

1400kg still seems relatively light to me presuming it's probably a quoted EU weight with fluids and driver. A Ferrari 355 is something like 1380kg DRY if I recall, and has sweet FA in terms of creature comforts. I am pretty sure a Lotus Evora weighs 1400kg too - if you want to be upset about a car being untrue to its company's philosophy I'd go after that one! (Not that I don't like the Evora, I love it, it's just hardly a featherweight)

[anonymous-user]

Tuna said:

Wait, how much does it weigh?

MX 5	998 kg
Exige	1125 kg
Audi TT	1230 kg
Boxster	1400 kg

There seems to be a certain set of posters who're gutted to find out that the Boxster was never aimed at them anyway, but anyone who thought Porsche was a *sports car* company, rather than just a car company that happened to make sports cars really hasn't been paying attention. How many people seriously bought the Boxster purely for performance and handling?

The enormous worry that a Boxster weighs 1400kg is laughable. It isn't and never has really been an out and out sports car. All those who talk of it in those terms need to drive a properly lightweight car and understand the meaning. As a comfortable, liveable and quick point to point 2 seat convertible the Boxster hits the spot.

[danp]

Tuna said:

Wait, how much does it weigh?

MX 5	998 kg
Exige	1125 kg
Audi TT	1230 kg
Boxster	1400 kg

There seems to be a certain set of posters who're gutted to find out that the Boxster was never aimed at them anyway, but anyone who thought Porsche was a *sports car* company, rather than just a car company that happened to make sports cars really hasn't been paying attention. How many people seriously bought the Boxster purely for performance and handling?

Of those figures I suspect only the Boxster includes the 75kg "driver"

[cypriot]

I can understand why people would defend the new 4-pot engines, and no doubt the 718 will be an overall great car for the vast majority of the public. However, not acknowledging that this new engine is shift for the worst in terms of engines, is pretty naive. All previous boxster s and cayman s had 911 engines, albeit slightly detuned. But there was that link to the 911 models - now that link has been broken. Porsche is just doing a very good job of making us forget this crucial point. The cayman and boxster were always a way to sample lovely porsche engines without having to pay full 911 prices. This is no longer the case, and hence the 718 will be a very different type of car - certainly not a true baby Porsche anymore.

[D200]

Polarbert said:

Maybe I'm one of the morons you're referencing, and potentially would be looking at something like this for my next car. But honestly I wouldn't consider it solely down to the amount of cylinders in the engine. The sound of an engine is of high importance to me when considering a car, and I much rather have a year or two older boxster with that glorious sounding flat 6, than one of these newer lawnmower varieties.

It isn't beyond ridiculous. One of my main joys of driving is hearing a nice sounding engine. Granted there are quite a lot of really great 4 cylinders around that sound incredible. But in a Porsche I'd just imagine a 6 cylinder of some degree, and the sound that comes along with it. It doesn't have anything to do with 0-60, handling or top speed, and a lot to do with the noise that comes from the back of it.

You have misinterpreting what I am saying plus I did not say anyone is a moron.

I stand by my opinion. You are entitled to have you own opinion, as am I

In my opinions cylinder count doesn’t make a car good or bad

Is a Toyota Camary V6 better than a 968 CS, E30 M3, Delta integrale or Audi UR Quattro etc

You [nor anyone else] have not drove or even read or viewed any roadtests of the new Boxster but you are immediately discounting it due to fact it’s not a 6. You don’t know how it feels or how it sounds.

In the past I was considering buying a 987 Cayman S and test drove extensively one but I was disappointed by the engine – it just didn’t feel that special. It sounded ok [well sounded good] but nothing that special to be honest, not as if it’s a Lexus LFA levels of amazement or something.

I liked the way it handled but the engine is the one thing that was a very slight disappointment. I am not slating a Cayman or Boxster [great cars] but am just stating the engine isn’t the only reason it’s a great car

I still think the whole ‘not 6’ argument is tenuous. I am still very dubious of how many people who actually were really going to buy a brand new Boxster, ready to sign on the dotted line but now won’t purely due the fact it’s a turbo flat 4.

Sure, plenty of people can say ‘I was going to possibly/maybe in the future/would have bought one perhaps’ but that isn’t the same.

[Moog72]

yonex said:

The enormous worry that a Boxster weighs 1400kg is laughable. It isn't and never has really been an out and out sports car. All those who talk of it in those terms need to drive a properly lightweight car and understand the meaning. As a comfortable, liveable and quick point to point 2 seat convertible the Boxster hits the spot.

Having had a couple of Caterhams in my time, I'd say the Boxster is every bit a sports car. After my initial test drive I think I described it as a "luxurious Caterham" to the sales guy as in my view it handles and performs very well indeed when comparing road use only which, let's face it, is where most Boxsters will be used.

Personally, the flat 6 howl really did play a huge part in the buying decision as did the revised looks over the 987 model. A flat 4 turbo does remove a significant part of the character and the appeal of the new car to me. I don't like the revised rear end either, that Porsche badge looks particularly awful and the embedded fog lights in the bumper, just no. All IMO of course.

I'm sure I'll get along to the dealer launch evening as and when it's revealed to the general public to judge it in the flesh, but I can't ignore the loss of such a great engine so I'll be sticking with my "old" model for the foreseeable future.

[smilo996]

The video is like a comedy and should be shown in University marketing seminars about the dangers of pushing a point and unjustified connection for the sake of image much too far.

The cracks in Porschar's range now become chasms. There are just better cars in every range out there now. It is just another badge in the VW group now.

[anonymous-user]

Moog72 said:

Having had a couple of Caterhams in my time, I'd say the Boxster is every bit a sports car. After my initial test drive I think I described it as a "luxurious Caterham" to the sales guy as in my view it handles and performs very well indeed when comparing road use only which, let's face it, is where most Boxsters will be used.

Personally, the flat 6 howl really did play a huge part in the buying decision as did the revised looks over the 987 model. A flat 4 turbo does remove a significant part of the character and the appeal of the new car to me. I don't like the revised rear end either, that Porsche badge looks particularly awful and the embedded fog lights in the bumper, just no. All IMO of course.

I'm sure I'll get along to the dealer launch evening as and when it's revealed to the general public to judge it in the flesh, but I can't ignore the loss of such a great engine so I'll be sticking with my "old" model for the foreseeable future.

Good points. I've always had a strong feeling that it goes 'Caterham-Elise-S2K-Boxster' when it comes to defining that group. Having experinced an early 3.2 I found it more of a relaxed drive. The weight isn't an issue, to me a sports car needs be lightweight, the feeling is completely different. That's why I wouldn't be worried about 1400kg as normally less than 800kg is what interests me more.

[Olivera]

danp said:

Tuna said:

Wait, how much does it weigh?

MX 5	998 kg
Exige	1125 kg
Audi TT	1230 kg
Boxster	1400 kg

There seems to be a certain set of posters who're gutted to find out that the Boxster was never aimed at them anyway, but anyone who thought Porsche was a *sports car* company, rather than just a car company that happened to make sports cars really hasn't been paying attention. How many people seriously bought the Boxster purely for performance and handling?

Of those figures I suspect only the Boxster includes the 75kg "driver"

As usual a horrible mangling of weight figures.

Unladen weight of the TTS (comparable with the base Boxster) is 1365kg. Unladen weight of the Boxster is 1335kg.

[RPastry]

ststirring non-story, 4-cylinder porsches have been around since the 40's.

Times change, all mass marked brands are making smaller turbo'd engines.

But then I drive a rebadged vw parts bin 4 pot 'NARP' anyway. So I would say this.

[bqf]

I used to race a 986 Boxster S. On road suspension it's pretty wallowy, but firmed up and focussed on adjustables it was a very well balanced car.

Lets face it, even the 6-cyl engine didn't sound that good. what difference will a flat four make?

As long as it has the right poke and the weight is still distributed as it was, it'll be a winner.

[WCZ]

more power is always nice and easy to remap with nice gains

[PHMatt]

Pretty sure most people moaning on here aren't in a position to own one of these so it's irrelevant what they think.

All I'll say about the engine is - if Subaru can make a 4 pot sound nice then Porsche can do better.

[Guvernator]

PHMatt said:

Pretty sure most people moaning on here aren't in a position to own one of these so it's irrelevant what they think.

Not sure why this ALWAYS gets trotted out, I'm probably not going to buy a Maclaren P1 in my lifetime either, does that mean I can't have an opinion about it? I thought that was the whole point of this forum, if we are only allowed to comment on cars which we are going to buy right now, we might as well shut down PH.

As for the Boxster I could well see myself considering one or something of it's ilk, if not right now then certainly in the future. The fact that they along with most other interesting sports cars seem to all be going the same way means I'll have a lot less choice in how I take my sports car thrills in future which as far as I am concerned gives me every right to moan.

[s m]

bqf said:

I used to race a 986 Boxster S. On road suspension it's pretty wallowy, but firmed up and focussed on adjustables it was a very well balanced car.

Lets face it, even the 6-cyl engine didn't sound that good. what difference will a flat four make?

As long as it has the right poke and the weight is still distributed as it was, it'll be a winner.

Proper racing driver response

[Ozzie Osmond]

s m said:

bqf said:

As long as it has the right poke and the weight is still distributed as it was, it'll be a winner.

Proper racing driver response

Yes, it's as simple as that. Meanwhile all the Victor Meldrew's will carry on moaning while I'm out enjoying my sportscar.

One question though. My Boxster has a boot at the front, a boot at the back and two seats in the middle. Where's the engine?

[Timfy]

The loss of cylinders is a massive shame. The flat 6 sound and character was one of the things that made the Boxster/Cayman stand out from the competition. It's sad that it's now gone and we're in Turbo 4 territory just like virtually everyone else.

It's not a surprise, though. Manufacturers have really had their hands forced with all the legislation effecting the design of new cars, and not just in Europe- some of the other large markets for them are as bad, if not worse.

It's great that we've been able to enjoy the flat 6 for so long, the new car will undoubtably be different. Bundles of torque low down, coming off the boil just as the old cars would have been coming to life. It's a real shame but short of convincing the worlds bureaucrats that cars should be allowed to be interesting there's nothing that can be done to change it.


I won't be buying one, but then I can't afford a new Boxster anyway, and all this will probably have blown over by the time a used 718 comes into budget.

[Guvernator]

The thing is there is a choice or at least there should be. Are you telling me that with all the thousands of very clever engineers around the world, the only thing they can collectively come up with to meet the emissions legislation, is "stick a smaller turbocharged engine in it"? Surely there is another way?

I'd really like PH to do an article and maybe ask some engineers why the smaller capacity turbo has become so ubiquitous and whether there are any alternatives (or if they were even considered).

I'm not even a hater of turbo charging, I've owned some fantastic turbo'd cars in the past, it's just in terms of character, the current implementations leave a lot to be desired. Personally I really think the current trend for this anodyne turbocharged, diesel-alike, dsg boxed race to the lowest common denominator solution to current emissions regulations is leading to a low point in car development, I can't actually think of very many new cars that I actually desire.