RE: Winkelmann's Lamborghini - end of an era? PH Blog
Sunday 7th February 2016
I was talking the other day about how certain people in the car industry seem to perfectly embody the products they build. The example in that case was Tyrone Johnson, the German-born, American-educated project head for the Focus RS - it's like his CV was made for translating a European performance car into something Americans and the rest of the world can enjoy.
Miura Concept too retro for WinkelmannStephan Winkelmann is the same. Who better to lead a brand trading on its Italian identity but underpinned by German engineering and commercial discipline than a man born in Berlin but raised and schooled in Rome? His combination of Teutonic rigour and Italian flamboyance perfectly represents how Lamborghini has evolved under Audi ownership since 1998 and his leadership from 2005 onwards. And contrasts vividly with the somewhat patronising attitude I witnessed first hand from stony faced group R&D boss Ulrich Hackenberg when he gatecrashed the original Huracan technical briefing. The impression Hackenberg gave was of an amusing little side project dependent on Audi generosity and mechanical cast-offs for its existence. Oh to have been a fly on the wall as Hackenberg's A8 whisked him out of the factory gates...
German born, Italian raised - who better for Lambo?Is the transformation of Lamborghini from a romanticised, occasionally shambolic builder of outrageous supercars and into a profitable business something to celebrate or mourn though? Certainly the cars have got 'better'. But not everyone appreciates the direction they're going in. And openly referring to the Huracan Spyder as a lifestyle product won't calm fears he's rather more focused on that than building hairy-chested supercars.
Is the Spyder a bit too lifestyle?Defining personal and corporate image as one and the same has earned esteem from many at Lamborghini. And the customers apparently adore his well-groomed alpha male image and willingness to engage with them. It's not without peril though, those not as enthusiastic about the direction he's taken the product equally scathing of both man and machine. And having invested so much of his personality in the brand can he fit in anywhere else?
Winkelmann's Lamborghini - end of an era? PH Blog
Is Lamborghini's sharp-dressed boss staying or going? And what will it mean if it's the latter?
Miura Concept too retro for Winkelmann
Is Winkelmann's commercial success going to see him sucked back into the Audi mothership though? And what would it mean for Lamborghini if he went? Rumours persist but when asked on the Huracan Spyder launch he remained quiet, still talking about plans for the future, the pending factory redevelopment and recruitment drive required to begin building the Urus in 2018.
German born, Italian raised - who better for Lambo?
His passion for the brand seems sincere though. He reflects his tenure at the top pretty much matches that of Ferruccio himself in duration but that the founder's legacy and values actually become more important to the brand as time goes on. It's interesting hearing him talk on subjects like the Miura, whose 50th birthday will be celebrated this year. Although the classic side of the business - certifying old cars and offering 'PoloStorico' factory restorations - follows Ferrari's business model Lamborghini isn't as sentimental about the past. He says when they built the Miura concept 10 years ago they had customers desperate to buy such a car and opening their wallets wide. Reviving the Miura would have been an easy commercial win and the temptation must have been enormous. But, to him, Lamborghini always looks forward, not backwards.
Is the Spyder a bit too lifestyle?
Ferruccio's personality remains at the heart of the Lamborghini legend. Whether he stays or goes Winkelmann's - for better or worse - is probably of near-equal significance.
Dan
 |
 |
Discussion
Flamboyance and good engineering don't need to be mutually exclusive..
Looking at Koenigsegg, OK they aren't perfect but Christian von Koenigsegg certainly appears to be passionate about his product and attention to detail.
In my humble opinion, being part of VAG means there are too many influences and pressures from within the group beyond their ability to make cars well.
Having Bugatti, Porsche, Bentley and Lamborghini, not to mention Audi as well, all under the same roof in one way or another will (even if its subtle) influence design and target market.
I don't think it's an exact science but the phrase "Don't throw baby out with the bath water" springs to mind. Much needed fixing with Lamborghini but it also had some amazing and unique attributes. In the re-engineering phase I think some of those attributes were sacrificed in the morphing towards the Audi-ghini. The pendulum has swung too far for me..
Looking at Koenigsegg, OK they aren't perfect but Christian von Koenigsegg certainly appears to be passionate about his product and attention to detail.
In my humble opinion, being part of VAG means there are too many influences and pressures from within the group beyond their ability to make cars well.
Having Bugatti, Porsche, Bentley and Lamborghini, not to mention Audi as well, all under the same roof in one way or another will (even if its subtle) influence design and target market.
I don't think it's an exact science but the phrase "Don't throw baby out with the bath water" springs to mind. Much needed fixing with Lamborghini but it also had some amazing and unique attributes. In the re-engineering phase I think some of those attributes were sacrificed in the morphing towards the Audi-ghini. The pendulum has swung too far for me..
Fire99 said:
Much needed fixing with Lamborghini but it also had some amazing and unique attributes. In the re-engineering phase I think some of those attributes were sacrificed in the morphing towards the Audi-ghini. The pendulum has swung too far for me..
While that's true for those of us that remember the days when you had to be a serious petrolhead to contemplate buying a Lambo as they were largely crap, and monsterously unreliable.....in todays world, the people with money to buy them are not really old school petrolheads, and wants the 'hey look at me' Lambo image but with the 'If only everything in life was reliable as a Volkswagen' ownership experience .....Fire99 said:
In my humble opinion, being part of VAG means there are too many influences and pressures from within the group beyond their ability to make cars well.
Having Bugatti, Porsche, Bentley and Lamborghini, not to mention Audi as well, all under the same roof in one way or another will (even if its subtle) influence design and target market.
Having Bugatti, Porsche, Bentley and Lamborghini, not to mention Audi as well, all under the same roof in one way or another will (even if its subtle) influence design and target market.
Big problem for me with the VAG group in general. A Superb, as good a car it is, will always be styled a bit more dull than the Passat, with a slightly inferior interior. Same goes then for the Audi equivalent.
If Lambo were to produce an SUV, they might, but the price, look, performance ... will all be determined not to compete too much with the Bentley, Porsche or Audi offerings, therefore inherently limiting what "they" could do so to say.
With a lot of products coming out of the VAG group this is apparent to me. There are some deviations though, like the audi R8 that steps on Porsche's toes, but they're more the exception as the rule.
This could all be forgiven for the likes of VW, Audi, Skoday, but for Lamborghini it's really a shame.
hole to customers who dare to suggest that the latest generation of Lambos aren't quite what their predecessors were...aeropilot said:
While that's true for those of us that remember the days when you had to be a serious petrolhead to contemplate buying a Lambo as they were largely crap, and monsterously unreliable.....in todays world, the people with money to buy them are not really old school petrolheads, and wants the 'hey look at me' Lambo image but with the 'If only everything in life was reliable as a Volkswagen' ownership experience .....
I agree in part but just looking at the likes of Koenigsegg and Pagani, they have unique charm and are clearly 'different' from the mainstream bunch.My argument is that no I don't expect Lamborghini to make carbon copies of the Countach, Jalpa (thank goodness) and early Diablo but in some ways I feel VAG has deliberately steered them into the 'Hey look at me' market because that is where the volume sales are.. (relatively speaking)
There is a mid-way point which I feel Lamborghini have really missed (and VAG probably would never understand), it's the improving engineering and reliability, even dare I say a few dynamic touches but sacrificing the high end of volume for a slightly more 'exclusive' market (a la Pagani, Koenigsegg etc) which in my opinion would in the longer term cement Lamborghini's reputation and image as something special rather than 'just another supercar' which they pretty much have become..
It depends where your mindset is and how much weight you put on product integrity, long term vision, and even making a product you're proud of.
As I've probably said before, this isn't an 'All-Right' or 'All-Wrong' situation. It's more a sliding scale between 'Purist-Lamborghini' and 'Corporate-Lamborghini' and for me I feel the scale has swung too far towards the latter..
ZesPak said:
Big problem for me with the VAG group in general. A Superb, as good a car it is, will always be styled a bit more dull than the Passat, with a slightly inferior interior. Same goes then for the Audi equivalent.
If Lambo were to produce an SUV, they might, but the price, look, performance ... will all be determined not to compete too much with the Bentley, Porsche or Audi offerings, therefore inherently limiting what "they" could do so to say.
With a lot of products coming out of the VAG group this is apparent to me. There are some deviations though, like the audi R8 that steps on Porsche's toes, but they're more the exception as the rule.
This could all be forgiven for the likes of VW, Audi, Skoday, but for Lamborghini it's really a shame.
Absolutely... In my opinion this is the down side of having many brands under the same 'umbrella' All roads will lead to compromise and corporate adjusting.. Every car will be as good as it can be BUT without compromising the position of a similar car from one of its sister-brands..
I spent a day in a Huracan in the summer, transporting me, a mate and a full length didgeridoo to a wedding in Devon. We hit many many leptons, sat in stopped traffic for hours, got positive comments, smiles and coffee beans and caused much excitement in the village car park when we arrived.
That modern supercars can be so well rounded amazes me and that something can look and go like a Huracan but be comfortable sat in the rain on a stopped M5 for two hours is testament to how far they've come in recent years.
I do not believe they have become any less wild, they've just become less flawed. I think a lot of people get stuck on that. I hope Winkelmann stays.
That modern supercars can be so well rounded amazes me and that something can look and go like a Huracan but be comfortable sat in the rain on a stopped M5 for two hours is testament to how far they've come in recent years.
I do not believe they have become any less wild, they've just become less flawed. I think a lot of people get stuck on that. I hope Winkelmann stays.
Fire99 said:
I agree in part but just looking at the likes of Koenigsegg and Pagani, they have unique charm and are clearly 'different' from the mainstream bunch.
Koenigsegg and Pagani models come in around the £1 million mark. Most Lambos (excluding the special edition limited run/one-offs) are between £180k for a Huracan and £300k for an Aventador. Not really in the same market strictly speaking; I know people who could afford a Lambo but would choke at a Pagani or a 'segg price-wise.Edited by sidesauce on Thursday 4th February 13:48
Evilex said:
Oh well, there's always Pagani, I suppose.
They seem like the true spiritual successors to the barmy Lamborghinis of old.
The new ones are simply too anodyne. Silly colour schemes do not a flamboyant car make.
Oh come on, the Adventador is about the most flamboyant car you can buy for less than £1m. It looks outrageous next to most other cars out there whether it's a lairy colour or not and everything I've read about them suggests that you still need skill and balls to drive them fast. They seem like the true spiritual successors to the barmy Lamborghinis of old.
The new ones are simply too anodyne. Silly colour schemes do not a flamboyant car make.
I can see where people are coming from when they say the Gallardo or Huracan has been Audi-ised but I think the Adventador is still very much a Lamborghini.
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff