Is there a genuinely decent alternative to the E46 330ci?
Discussion
LunarOne said:
in the real world the 330 is 85% of an M3 anyway
I've sadly not yet had the pleasure of driving an M3, but if it is only 15% better than an E46 330 (in the real world of course) then my expectations have been somewhat dampened! 
I came pretty close to buying a 330 in 2010- I liked the way they drove, they sounded good, and had a decent amount of kit. It definitely felt like a more grown-up (and considerably faster) version of the E30 I owned many moons ago.
Ultimately though I decided it just didn't feel special enough. It felt like a great all-round car, but I've never really gone for all-round cars. My money ended up going on a slightly modified, imported DC2 Integra, that shouted excitement with a capital E.
I can see why they are highly rated, but unless you crave the 'all-round-ness' and anonimity provided by a mid-sized family saloon that blends un-offensively into all the other mid-sized family saloons on the road, there are far more entertaining cars out there.
If the above is exactly what you are after, the 330 does make a pretty compelling case- but I couldn't imagine spending >£5k on one. I'd personally want a bit more excitement for my money.
The E46 330ci Sport is in no way "The greatest car .... [Clarkson Pause] .... in the world". However, it's a tough act to follow at its price point - it combines so much to be an excellent all-rounder, that most alternatives tend to look a bit compromised by comparison.
For £5k I'd buy none of the above as you'd get an impreza or older celica gt4 that would be better to drive and more reliable or if you dont need 5 seats a 350z is very nice.
£3-3.5k is the median price for a 330ci Sport at the moment, assuming we're excluding all the silly-priced outliers. What does £5k have to do with anything?
I don't really know in what way an Impreza or Celica GT4 would be "more reliable" than a 330ci Sport at this price range, to be honest. Also, knowing Japanese cars, they aren't exactly shy of a spot of rust themselves - Classic Impreza rear arches spring to mind.
At 80%+ commitment, you might get slightly more back from an Impreza or Celica, assuming that you could buy either for £3-3.5k. However, for every other kind of driving I know where I would prefer to be - the BMW is more comfortable, and nicer to drive daily in every way.
As for the CLK, it's a totally different drive, and nowhere near as enjoyable. It's a soggy, heavy-feeling cruiser, compared with the E46 Sport.
The RX8, however, is an excellent shout. 4 seats, a bit of character, in budget, and RWD. If they had a slightly better reputation for reliability (whether it's true or not is immaterial) and a smidge more torque, they would be a genuine contender. I looked in earnest for an auto (import only) to test before I bought my 330, but didn't find one in time.
rb5er said:
The101 said:
I'm not quite sure any suggested are genuinely as good....
In what way? I think you are either overestimating the BMW or underestimating the rest. Certainly none of them rust like an e46 thats for sure but not many cars of that type and age are rwd.For £5k I'd buy none of the above as you'd get an impreza or older celica gt4 that would be better to drive and more reliable or if you dont need 5 seats a 350z is very nice.
Edited by rb5er on Wednesday 3rd February 23:30
I don't really know in what way an Impreza or Celica GT4 would be "more reliable" than a 330ci Sport at this price range, to be honest. Also, knowing Japanese cars, they aren't exactly shy of a spot of rust themselves - Classic Impreza rear arches spring to mind.
At 80%+ commitment, you might get slightly more back from an Impreza or Celica, assuming that you could buy either for £3-3.5k. However, for every other kind of driving I know where I would prefer to be - the BMW is more comfortable, and nicer to drive daily in every way.
white_goodman said:
Sorry, I haven't owned one but have driven them and they were nice cars and nice-looking cars in their day but that was 10-15 years ago. Were they really that amazing? The straight six engines are lovely, I'll give you that but they are not without their issues, especially rust. I don't think that they can command a 7k price tag (even the M3 really).
How can a newer E92 coupe/W209 CLK coupe not be better? How about a Mazda RX8?
Sorry, I don't want to cause offence and I would also defend cars that I have owned and loved to the hilt but there are so many good cars out there and I don't tend to revisit ones that I have already owned because I worry that I will not enjoy them as much second time around.
Again, comparing the E92 against the E46 is a bit irrelevant, really. Comparable E92 330 Sport coupes are over twice the median price of the E46, so I can't see many buyers making this decision.How can a newer E92 coupe/W209 CLK coupe not be better? How about a Mazda RX8?
Sorry, I don't want to cause offence and I would also defend cars that I have owned and loved to the hilt but there are so many good cars out there and I don't tend to revisit ones that I have already owned because I worry that I will not enjoy them as much second time around.
As for the CLK, it's a totally different drive, and nowhere near as enjoyable. It's a soggy, heavy-feeling cruiser, compared with the E46 Sport.
The RX8, however, is an excellent shout. 4 seats, a bit of character, in budget, and RWD. If they had a slightly better reputation for reliability (whether it's true or not is immaterial) and a smidge more torque, they would be a genuine contender. I looked in earnest for an auto (import only) to test before I bought my 330, but didn't find one in time.
A 325ti is a better bet than the 330ci IME. More practical, less prone to rust, almost as quick, better fun, better noise, gaining a strong following
One thing I found with the E92 is that it was just too big for a 3-series. Now obviously this is very subjective, but for me the E46 was right at the limit for a smallish family car that wasn't too large to hustle down a B-road, whereas its successor over-stepped that mark and put it in the class above
One thing I found with the E92 is that it was just too big for a 3-series. Now obviously this is very subjective, but for me the E46 was right at the limit for a smallish family car that wasn't too large to hustle down a B-road, whereas its successor over-stepped that mark and put it in the class above
LunarOne said:
and in the real world the 330 is 85% of an M3 anyway -
Where is this "real world" you talk of? If you mean stuck in traffic on the way into work, then a 318ci is 95% of your 330C70R said:
Again, comparing the E92 against the E46 is a bit irrelevant, really. Comparable E92 330 Sport coupes are over twice the median price of the E46, so I can't see many buyers making this decision.
I wasn't really knocking it as a 3k purchase. They are nice cars. However, for the 6/7k that some are asking for them at the moment, you could get an E92 330i and I don't really see why you wouldn't. Things have moved on.I had a 1990 E30 325i back in 2005 and it was still a nice car but I would never have argued that it was better than a new one. In terms of performance, braking, handling, fuel economy and interior, it just wasn't.
white_goodman said:
C70R said:
Again, comparing the E92 against the E46 is a bit irrelevant, really. Comparable E92 330 Sport coupes are over twice the median price of the E46, so I can't see many buyers making this decision.
I wasn't really knocking it as a 3k purchase. They are nice cars. However, for the 6/7k that some are asking for them at the moment, you could get an E92 330i and I don't really see why you wouldn't. Things have moved on.I had a 1990 E30 325i back in 2005 and it was still a nice car but I would never have argued that it was better than a new one. In terms of performance, braking, handling, fuel economy and interior, it just wasn't.
For what it's worth, I think the E9x is a much better car overall. It feels more modern and better resolved inside, the engines are more muscular and the range/choice is far greater. However, I would expect all of this if I was paying 2-3x as much as the car we're discussing...
Edited by C70R on Thursday 4th February 14:41
Leins said:
Where is this "real world" you talk of? If you mean stuck in traffic on the way into work, then a 318ci is 95% of your 330
I think that might be a bit subjective. A 330i MSport E92 Coupe is only about 1 inch wider and about 5 inches longer than an E46 330Ci (and actually a little bit lighter).Edited by white_goodman on Thursday 4th February 18:44
white_goodman said:
I think that might be a subjective. A 330i MSport E92 Coupe is only about 1 inch wider and about 5 inches longer than an E46 330Ci (and actually a little bit lighter).
I agree it's very subjective, just that I found the E92 to be almost the camel's back-breaking straw of the 3-series range. E46s always feel better to "hustle" to merb5er said:
C70R said:
What does £5k have to do with anything?
You didn't read the OP? £5k is his budget.The101 said:
Budget is flexible but no more than 5k ideally, preferably a grand or two less
There's absolutely no need to spend £5k to get into a decent 330ci, unless you want a late model, super-low miles or a rare colour/spec. Something which isn't true of almost everything else that has been mentioned.Sparkzz said:
What is it with people and the e46? No wonder they're commanding such money. Why anyone wants the council estate favourite is beyond me.
Because an E46 330ci M sport coupe is a very good car, I assume you have not driven or owned one? We're not talking about the s
t 320d rubbish you see on council estates.The 330 is reasonably quick, excellently balanced, will sit at motorway and autobahn speeds all day long and be very quiet, if well spec'd then a very nice place to be, they will also be happily thrown about a country road or track, they're really one of the best all rounders out there, I wouldn't use the term "baby M3" for them, but they're not far off each other.
Writing off the CLK so easily seems a bit unfair to me, granted the luxury spec ones are more bargesque than a 330ci Sport but the CLK sport (and I think the Avantgarde also has the sport suspension) are fairly tight handling cars. Describing it as heavy is unfair too, Parkers lists the pre-facelift 330ci Sport manual as 1505kg and the CLK320 Sport as 1495kg (but a post facelift 330ci sport manual as 1430kg so I don't know how accurate the figures are). Of course with the CLK there is the 4.3 V8 option available too and even the CLK55 AMG can be had for the same money as a decent 330ci Sport.
They are all autos obviously, it's a good box but if you specifically want a manual this rules them out.
They are all autos obviously, it's a good box but if you specifically want a manual this rules them out.
On the subject of 330Ci vs M3 - I have now owned both (currently own an M3) - I would say your use of the car depends on whether the M is worth it.
If you've got good roads near you, and you're prepared to spend some time in the top half of the rev range, then the ///M will feel like the more special - and much quicker car.
If you're doing ordinary driving, with the odd bit of spirited fun, a 330Ci will deliver most of that and considerably lower fuel and parts bills.
I also previously had a Z4 M which felt much more special than the M3, but my current situation dictates back seats as a requirement.
I recall in period a popular challenger to the 330 would have been the S-Type jag, which can be bought in many different flavours now including V8 powered ones. In my opinion the interior has dated much worse, but it offers a very different driving experience to the beemer.
If you've got good roads near you, and you're prepared to spend some time in the top half of the rev range, then the ///M will feel like the more special - and much quicker car.
If you're doing ordinary driving, with the odd bit of spirited fun, a 330Ci will deliver most of that and considerably lower fuel and parts bills.
I also previously had a Z4 M which felt much more special than the M3, but my current situation dictates back seats as a requirement.
I recall in period a popular challenger to the 330 would have been the S-Type jag, which can be bought in many different flavours now including V8 powered ones. In my opinion the interior has dated much worse, but it offers a very different driving experience to the beemer.
TurboHatchback said:
Writing off the CLK so easily seems a bit unfair to me, granted the luxury spec ones are more bargesque than a 330ci Sport but the CLK sport (and I think the Avantgarde also has the sport suspension) are fairly tight handling cars. Describing it as heavy is unfair too, Parkers lists the pre-facelift 330ci Sport manual as 1505kg and the CLK320 Sport as 1495kg (but a post facelift 330ci sport manual as 1430kg so I don't know how accurate the figures are). Of course with the CLK there is the 4.3 V8 option available too and even the CLK55 AMG can be had for the same money as a decent 330ci Sport.
They are all autos obviously, it's a good box but if you specifically want a manual this rules them out.
As someone who owns a CLK (Avantgarde) and an E46 (Sport), and has driven a few of the former, this is an occasion when looking at the numbers doesn't tell the story.They are all autos obviously, it's a good box but if you specifically want a manual this rules them out.
The CLK is an excellent car in its own right, and probably the one I would choose (at a push) to do big miles in. However, even the "sports" suspension (deliberate use of "") can't disguise the fact that the CLK is a soft cruiser. It feels more like a large saloon than a coupe, and the steering/suspension/seats (all the bits that makes the E46 feel 'sporty') don't even come close.
The e46 330ci m sport manual was often sold (on the used market) as a direct alternative to an e36 m3 Evo.
And they were available on cheap lease deals in the early 2000s they were a modern classic then as they offered so much for so little.
E46s (can) have so many problems but have a high scrap parts value could break a high spec one very easily for £2k.
It's a car of its time that still looks great 16 years later - especially Convertible and Coupe.
I don't think there is a ready supply of e90 coupes in sport and big engine for £5k.
And they were available on cheap lease deals in the early 2000s they were a modern classic then as they offered so much for so little.
E46s (can) have so many problems but have a high scrap parts value could break a high spec one very easily for £2k.
It's a car of its time that still looks great 16 years later - especially Convertible and Coupe.
I don't think there is a ready supply of e90 coupes in sport and big engine for £5k.
jayemm89 said:
On the subject of 330Ci vs M3 - I have now owned both (currently own an M3) - I would say your use of the car depends on whether the M is worth it.
If you've got good roads near you, and you're prepared to spend some time in the top half of the rev range, then the ///M will feel like the more special - and much quicker car.
If you're doing ordinary driving, with the odd bit of spirited fun, a 330Ci will deliver most of that and considerably lower fuel and parts bills.
I agree and a very good sum up having had a E92 M3 and currently got a E90 330i. If you've got good roads near you, and you're prepared to spend some time in the top half of the rev range, then the ///M will feel like the more special - and much quicker car.
If you're doing ordinary driving, with the odd bit of spirited fun, a 330Ci will deliver most of that and considerably lower fuel and parts bills.
C70R said:
rb5er said:
C70R said:
What does £5k have to do with anything?
You didn't read the OP? £5k is his budget.The101 said:
Budget is flexible but no more than 5k ideally, preferably a grand or two less
There's absolutely no need to spend £5k to get into a decent 330ci, unless you want a late model, super-low miles or a rare colour/spec. Something which isn't true of almost everything else that has been mentioned.And if you look at what £3k gets you when it comes to a 330ci its a moneypit with over 100k miles. Show us examples of all these decent £3k 330ci's........ I'm sure we'd all like to see where you are finding them.
Oh and the rear subframe boot floor cracking issues are quite a worry.
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