Is there a genuinely decent alternative to the E46 330ci?

[C70R]

rb5er said:

C70R said:

I wasn't aware I was trying to find "a manual one with decent mileage". Some quality goalpost shifting going on there.

Think you might want to re-re-read the OP, again. Nowhere does he specify that he only wants an manual E46. The E46 autobox (as I'm sure you'll know, from your extensive experience) is among the better balanced auto/tip choices, and IMHO a better bet for a daily drive.

You seem to have curiously avoided posting all the quality, low mileage GT4s and Imprezas at £3-3.5k that you promised.

Edited by C70R on Friday 5th February 16:13

The autos are crap. I thought everybody knew that. Maybe my fault for not thinking about autos as I assumed the OP wanted a proper one. In that case yes they are dirt cheap and can you can easily pick up a high mileage crappy auto for 3k.

I never promised any low mileage imprezas or gt4s for £3.5k. I was saying at £5k they are a better buy. I'm sure if they also did a crappy auto then a high mileage one of those might be comparable in price.

Sorry. My mistake.

I mistook you for someone who did reasonable debate, based on plenty of experience. If that's the most mature reply you can manage, I'll leave you to it.

[jayemm89]

I never liked the E46 auto box, however I also really don't like the Porsche tiptronic boxes but there are a lot of people who are seeking those out. It isn't always people you think either. There are many petrol heads who *would* have a manual but simply can't.

[Sump]

jayemm89 said:

Sump said:

Waits for the 'I have a mint 160k BMW brigade.'

You don't need to wait, we're here. Frankly, I should thank you. People like you mean that I am able to snap up fine automobiles at bargain prices simply because the odometer has now obtained six digits on it. I'm certainly never going to claim any car - even an E46 - is bomb-proof. They have well documented issues. But there are also a million buyers guides out there to help you identify common problems - and more importantly, plenty of them still on the road to mean you can pick and choose!

You do realise I run and have run high mileage BMWs? The M5 has 140k on it...my 330d had 160k on it, the Champagne had 120k and the Aegean 180k...

[Sump]

C70R said:

rb5er said:

C70R said:

Here are 3 examples of nice ones (for you to pick inevitable, and unjustified, holes in), that took me 10secs to find on Autotrader.
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...

2 autos (cheap for that reason) and the middle one actually looks quite nice but at 120k miles I doubt very much that its a good buy.

So you can't find a manual one with decent mileage as you are proving.

The E46 autobox (as I'm sure you'll know, from your extensive experience) is among the better balanced auto/tip choices, and IMHO a better bet for a daily drive.

Edited by C70R on Friday 5th February 16:13

5hp19 suffers from a rubbish quality input shaft seal. It's pretty much the main reason so many of the boxes **** up as it goes undetected and overheats the trans. The clutches are solid, well apart from the early drums.

The 6hp boxes are great, apart from the solenoids.

The GM box on the diesels is just garage, don't defend it.

[daveco]

What other 10+ year old car looks/sounds as good for this price range??



Not exactly slow either
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6enfOjXzUxE

Actually the front looks a bit like the current F10 5 series

[jayemm89]

Sump said:

You do realise I run and have run high mileage BMWs? The M5 has 140k on it...my 330d had 160k on it, the Champagne had 120k and the Aegean 180k...

So - genuine question - why would you insist on repeatedly buying cars you describe as "fundamentally garbage" ?

[Sump]

jayemm89 said:

Sump said:

You do realise I run and have run high mileage BMWs? The M5 has 140k on it...my 330d had 160k on it, the Champagne had 120k and the Aegean 180k...

So - genuine question - why would you insist on repeatedly buying cars you describe as "fundamentally garbage" ?

Cause they're still better than the competition I also have my own private workshop so when things go wrong it's never a problem for me.

I also know them too well, so when something goes wrong I just fix it straightaway rather than a load of googling etc. I also have a load of BMW diagnostic tools so I'm pretty much stuck with the marque

Edited by Sump on Friday 5th February 17:12

[jayemm89]

Sump said:

Cause they're still better than the competition I also have my own private workshop so when things go wrong it's never a problem for me.

I also know them too well, so when something goes wrong I just fix it straightaway rather than a load of googling etc. I also have a load of BMW diagnostic tools so I'm pretty much stuck with the marque

Edited by Sump on Friday 5th February 17:12

That's got to be it really. I think the majority of people looking at these cars now, especially those on this forum, are not looking for an "easy, low maintenance" car (within reason), more likely their priorities are RWD, manual, sporty.

At least their problems are *usually* easily solved - people who can't spanner like yourselves can always get friendly with their local independents or breakers. I did have a laugh to myself the other day when I opened the door on my M and the driver's side trim was hanging down a tiny bit. Reminded me of a summer spent with duct tape and super glue with my clubsport.

[C70R]

Sump said:

C70R said:

rb5er said:

C70R said:

Here are 3 examples of nice ones (for you to pick inevitable, and unjustified, holes in), that took me 10secs to find on Autotrader.
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...

2 autos (cheap for that reason) and the middle one actually looks quite nice but at 120k miles I doubt very much that its a good buy.

So you can't find a manual one with decent mileage as you are proving.

The E46 autobox (as I'm sure you'll know, from your extensive experience) is among the better balanced auto/tip choices, and IMHO a better bet for a daily drive.

Edited by C70R on Friday 5th February 16:13

5hp19 suffers from a rubbish quality input shaft seal. It's pretty much the main reason so many of the boxes **** up as it goes undetected and overheats the trans. The clutches are solid, well apart from the early drums.

The 6hp boxes are great, apart from the solenoids.

The GM box on the diesels is just garage, don't defend it.

This is going around in circles. Like the Boxster IMS issue, the internet is responsible for many scare stories about the E46, like the cooling system exploding over 100k. The real-world incidence is probably nothing like that observed on the internet, but we'll never know for sure - and, ultimately, it will always come down to individuals with differing experiences.

[C70R]

jayemm89 said:

Sump said:

You do realise I run and have run high mileage BMWs? The M5 has 140k on it...my 330d had 160k on it, the Champagne had 120k and the Aegean 180k...

So - genuine question - why would you insist on repeatedly buying cars you describe as "fundamentally garbage" ?

"High mileage cars showing common marque problems - STOP PRESS"

Doesn't really catch the eye like "Super Cally Go Ballistic, Celtic Are Atrocious"...

[TroubledSoul]

I'm in two minds with ours at the moment as part of me would like a 2nd Subaru to sit alongside the STI or another MR2 Turbo to relive past glories

But it's a solid car with nice seats etc. and adequate power for a smoker. Needs some work though now, at 123k. Having done the FCABs I have some RTABs ready to go, inner and outer track rods and I've just bought new plugs and oil today, along with a cabin filter and a sump plug etc. Gone for 0w-40 Mobil 1 New Life fully synthetic this time. Oh and I have a set of new Brembo front discs to put on to try and cure a wheel wobble under braking.

I had a 330cd a few years ago and it was actually a beautiful car, which I fitted a Bilstein B12 kit to and all sorts. Unfortunately, I found it a bit dull. I know now that that was due to the diesel engine. I like the petrol car much more.

We've only had it about 6 months and the wife loves it. I lose interest quickly but once I do the work this weekend, I will probably fancy keeping it a bit longer

[CX53]

Sump said:

This is actually a myth. BMWs are fundamentally garbage after 100k. They use crap seals which is the reason that every one of them is leaking out of every orifice, constant suspension niggles, rust issues, vanos issues, Disa issues, swirl flap issues, pixel issues, phantom shimmy issues, they are just fundamentally bad.

This is coming from someone who has owned:

330d 2004 E46
2002 530i Champagnge
2002 530i Aegean
330i 2006 E90
2005 X5

Luckily I am extremely handy with a spanner so it never bothered me but it just became tedious

Waits for the 'I have a mint 160k BMW brigade.'

You may have a point here.

A high mileage ST220 doesn't have a huge list of problems when it reaches a certain mileage. Not RWD though sadly.

[ITP]

daveco said:

What other 10+ year old car looks/sounds as good for this price range??



Not exactly slow either
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6enfOjXzUxE

Actually the front looks a bit like the current F10 5 series

How about an alfa 3.2GT, they look good and sound even better.

https://vimeo.com/112006528

Edited by ITP on Friday 5th February 21:12

[Mr Tidy]

ITP said:

How about an alfa 3.2GT, they look good and sound even better.

https://vimeo.com/112006528

Edited by ITP on Friday 5th February 21:12

Indeed, how about an Alfa?

Well if I was running it as a company car maybe, but it's still not RWD!

GT looks good, but if people seem to think an E46 is a money pit I doubt they are going to be any kinder about an Alfa! And lovely though that V6 may sound what I have read seems to suggest the extra weight up front upsets the handling balance.

I saw the light mid 2014 and I sold my 123d and treated myself to a Z4 Coupe with a cheap old Mazda 323f as a daily - the Mazda lasted 6 months before it got replaced by a 325ti!

Just over 80K miles the 325ti needed the inevitable cooling system refresh, as in new rad, temperature sensor, expansion tank, aux drive belt, etc. all done by my local BMW indy for just over £400!

3 or 4 weeks ago my Z4Coupe (so N52 engine) got way too hot one night. Booked it in to the same indy - diagnosis was a new water pump so I had the thermostat replaced too. Bill was just shy of £800! (And this is at 62K miles).

Based upon that I will not entertain anything else with an N52 engine - M54 is as new-fangled as I want! And E9* Saloons and Tourings (and 130is) don't even have a temperature gauge to give you a clue before the light comes on and it goes into limp mode!

So as great as the E92 may drive, to me it doesn't look nearly as nice as an E46 Coupe and I wouldn't want a bill for £800ish to deal with what is reportedly a fairly common problem if I had bought an E92 in the £5/6/7K price range - that's more than 10% of what it cost!

And the only RWD alternative I can think of would be a C-class. From from my experience of a W202 C280 Sport it was a crashy, bangy thing with no handling prowess and auto. only (unless someone put in a special order) and the newer ones seem to be even less reliable!

Had a lift once in a Legacy 3.0R which was impressive, but it's saloon or estate only, and 06 plate onwards it's over £500 a year road tax!

Once I move the Z4 on I will be another dreamer looking for a facelift 330Ci - there is no other option I can see that drives that well but is still vaguely practical and not too big.

So to answer the OP, I don't think so! (But we should try to keep that quiet until we've got one)!

[LotusAlfaV6bloke]

Wow - when did the market go crazy for these?

I ran my E46 330i Sport manual as my daily for over four years, selling about 18 months ago.

Sump is entirely right to my experience - these cars age terribly, and when they are tired they are very tired. Like anything, it is just a car and can be repaired with parts replaced, but how far do you want to take it? It is quite easy to be replacing most of the suspension (no good pattern parts for M-tech gear from memory), endless electrical gremlins, with a terminal rust issue creeping in the back ground that is making a lot of that spending a bit unwise in the long term.

I think that as others as have said, they existed in an era where rear wheel drive and a nice engine in a cheaper car was a bit of a rarity, so as they got more affordable people now want to believe they are a sharp and sporty car. They are not, they are heavy and a bit numb with a rust problem that many are blind too because of that BMW badge on the bonnet. We would all be mocking the arches and floors if it was a Vauxhall.

I bought one as I wanted something reasonably good looking, entertaining and comfortable to drive, with good power levels for the fuel consumption, and mine did all that admirably.

However, these things are not premium products and when you work on them it shows. There were lots of dogs when I was looking back in 2010, some of them must be very ropey by now. I am sure there are some true gems out there that make for good buys, but blimey I reckon there are some overpriced money pits looking at the prices in this thread!

Edited by LotusAlfaV6bloke on Friday 5th February 23:16

[cerb4.5lee]

Mr Tidy said:

3 or 4 weeks ago my Z4Coupe (so N52 engine) got way too hot one night. Booked it in to the same indy - diagnosis was a new water pump so I had the thermostat replaced too. Bill was just shy of £800! (And this is at 62K miles).

Based upon that I will not entertain anything else with an N52 engine

Don't lose the faith and when my TVR broke it cost me £11k to put right(only 19k miles on it) and that(foolishly I admit) doesn't put me off wanting another, so sometimes it's just a case of a bad experience and it's not always a given that things will go wrong...unless it's a TVR obviously!

[jayemm89]

Have you guys seen the prices of Mk1 Ford Capris lately? Nobody would have believed you those would become a classic but if the herd thins itself enough strange things can happen...

[GreatPretender]

Audi TT?

Ticks all the OP's boxes, IMO.

[rb5er]

C70R said:

Sorry. My mistake.

I mistook you for someone who did reasonable debate, based on plenty of experience. If that's the most mature reply you can manage, I'll leave you to it.

Immature for suggesting that the e46 autobox is crap? Its well known to be crap, dimwitted and over 100k often sts itself, ££££ to fix.

No need to take it personally just because for some reason you like it. The zf 8 speed in later cars is a great auto gearbox, the ones in the e46 are terrible.

[LanceRS]

I have a Clubsport in Estoril Blue with 108k on it (bought with 101k). It is a great all rounder and is a little bit different . It replaced a much loved e36 328 and when I was looking I genuinely could not find a proper alternative at that price level.
It did take me over three months to find one that I was happy with and there was no continuity with the prices being asked for varying conditions of car.
I did look at alternatives, but had to discount them for eg;
St220, drinks even more, front wheel drive, bigger than I needed and if you get the later one with the 6 speed, horrendous road tax.
Alfa's. Great to look at, but it's my money not the company's to lose.
Mercs, nice interiors but at that price nothing with a proper engine and manual box. Also from the period when the accountants were in charge.
Japanese contingent, I'm fussy about interiors and somehow their plastic look cheaper than everyone else's .
So, I still ended up with the car I had wanted in the first place and I'm very happy with it. I am also realistic though. I accept that it is not new and that things wear out. I've just changed the brakes all round, including Goodridge hoses and a caliper for £350. That is probably similar to a single monthly payment on something newish that still needs maintaining. From that point of view it's a bargain (not sure SWMBO agrees).
They might not be perfect, the prices vary wildly and there are some real dogs out there but I honestly couldn't think of a real alternative for the price.