Is there a genuinely decent alternative to the E46 330ci?

[pits]

Sump said:

This is actually a myth. BMWs are fundamentally garbage after 100k. They use crap seals which is the reason that every one of them is leaking out of every orifice, constant suspension niggles, rust issues, vanos issues, Disa issues, swirl flap issues, pixel issues, phantom shimmy issues, they are just fundamentally bad.

This is coming from someone who has owned:

330d 2004 E46
2002 530i Champagnge
2002 530i Aegean
330i 2006 E90
2005 X5

Luckily I am extremely handy with a spanner so it never bothered me but it just became tedious

Waits for the 'I have a mint 160k BMW brigade.'

To be fair, from someone who has owned a handful of BMW's
E34 108k-140k miles - Fuel pump died at 132k miles...nightmare
E39 528i 162k- 204k miles - Alternator at 194k, radiator and water pump at 190k, oh and a door handle.
E46 330ci 92k - 140k miles - 2 bottom arms, 2 stab bars and one rocker cover gasket.
E39 525i 192 - 205k miles - Alternator died at 196k miles, which was inconvenient, and to be fair the st BMW rocker seal decided to start weeping around 198k miles.

Win some you lose some

[jayemm89]

I guess these are "problems" we have when cars don't disintegrate from rusting within 5 years/50,000 miles!

As it happens, BMW's corrosion warranty on the E46 was increased to 12 years during the car's lifespan and I had £3k of "warranty" bodywork done to my car at 9 years old and 150K on the clock

[SidewaysSi]

O/T but what is a mint low owner and miles E36 328 manual coupe worth these days?

[V8RX7]

rallycross said:

I've had a few 330ci sports and I didn't think very much of them, certainly not a sporty thing to drive with numb steering.

I remember numb steering, awful crashy suspension made even worse with the 18" wheels

You forgot about the terrible throttle response.

The noise isn't great either - I even tried adding a sports exhaust and air intake and it was still too muted.

The problem is that there aren't any decent RWD mainstream cars made, they are all too heavy, too complex and don't have LSD.

I'd try to find an E36 M3 or look at Japanese coupes.

[Motorrad]

PomBstard said:

Beauty is in the eye... and all that

They are reliable, very well engineered and made cars that can be very quick and entertaining cross-country. Lack the last bit of steering feel AWD chassis is very capable and seats are superb - better than the famed Volvo seats, IME.

Only serious mark against it, and its a biggie where PH is concerned, is that its not German, Swedish or a JLR product.

I also think they are great cars, especially in wagon form. The 330 feels faster and has better fuel economy but overall I think the Spec B is a nicer all rounder and more fun to drive.

The only real disadvantage vs the 330ci I can think of is fuel economy. The legacy will struggle to see 30mpg, our average on US roads was in the low 20s. My 330ci averaged 32mpg and could get into the mid 30s on a run.

[jayemm89]

The E46 is a fairly "mature" car - certainly it's natural habitat in 330 form is more motorway than back road, but I found it very capable at both.

Things like the MG ZS 180 probably offer a more visceral/raw experience but of course none of the refinement of the 330.

My 330 was a clubsport, which has most of the sound deadening removed, made it much better sounding although it droned a tiny bit on the motorway (exhaust flap always open). I went out in a friend's 325 and you could barely hear the engine.

[Vincefox]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1997-BMW-M3-Evo-Saloon-3...

[RobM77]

SidewaysSi said:

O/T but what is a mint low owner and miles E36 328 manual coupe worth these days?

Hopefully not much more than I sold mine for a few years ago!! For me this (328i) was probably my favourite BMW ever, but just cost too much to keep on the road £5k in 18 months was taking the piss, althougnI should add I wasn"5 just fighting fires, I was trying to restore it to 'as new' condition as well. In comparison though I've put 82k miles on my E90 in five years (up to 136k now) and had just one thing go wrong and it still feels like new.

[Mr Tidy]

cerb4.5lee said:

Don't lose the faith and when my TVR broke it cost me £11k to put right(only 19k miles on it) and that(foolishly I admit) doesn't put me off wanting another, so sometimes it's just a case of a bad experience and it's not always a given that things will go wrong...unless it's a TVR obviously!

Thanks for the reassurance - the main problem is that I am currently not working and on just a pension bills approaching £800 affect my ability to eat!

But I took the Z4C for a drive last week and it's getting under my skin again - I suppose this is similar to TVR ownership, they are so good at what they do when they do it that you forgive them for any misbehaviour!

[billzeebub]

E36 328 Sport

[ClaphamGT3]

The OP is talking about wanting what will, essentially, be an end-of-life snotter for not much more than cashpoint money. Surely the advice is to buy the best condition RWD coupe he can find in his budget and not obsess about make etc?

[CX53]

Cashpoint money is £300 is it not? Unless you have some sort of company directors special cashpoint card...

Let's be honest 3-5k can get you a lot of car and not necessarily a snotter, I think the point is that the E46's are way overpriced for a decent one. It is essentially a repmobile with a half decent engine, nothing too special. The OP is asking for decent alternitives which aren't a complete rip off.

[Billy_Whizzzz]

LunarOne said:

in the real world the 330 is 85% of an M3 anyway.

However much you like your 330, it just isn't 85% of the M3. Sounds like you haven't had an M3, which in the real world is always 300% of the 330.The feel of the two is totally, utterly different - in the M3, the engine utterly dominates. The 330 is fine, but certainly nothing like an M3.

OP - E46s now are prone to rust and getting on in terms of being a daily driver. The E90 series may not look as nice to some people (the interior is horrible) but it's probably a better car than an E46. An Audi S4 (V8) is more characterful than a 330 - haven't been through all this thread, but have you considered one of those?

[Vincefox]

Billy_Whizzzz said:

However much you like your 330, it just isn't 85% of the M3. Sounds like you haven't had an M3, which in the real world is always 300% of the 330.The feel of the two is totally, utterly different - in the M3, the engine utterly dominates. The 330 is fine, but certainly nothing like an M3.

OP - E46s now are prone to rust and getting on in terms of being a daily driver. The E90 series may not look as nice to some people (the interior is horrible) but it's probably a better car than an E46. An Audi S4 (V8) is more characterful than a 330 - haven't been through all this thread, but have you considered one of those?

This is worth listening to. I've owned non-M and M versions. The stats don't tell the true story. The M is so much more than the sum of it's parts. Non M coupes are a great place to be, but they don't have the all round focus or occasion.

[cerb4.5lee]

Billy_Whizzzz said:

LunarOne said:

in the real world the 330 is 85% of an M3 anyway.

However much you like your 330, it just isn't 85% of the M3. Sounds like you haven't had an M3, which in the real world is always 300% of the 330.The feel of the two is totally, utterly different - in the M3, the engine utterly dominates. The 330 is fine, but certainly nothing like an M3.

I think the chassis on a M3 feels more honed and the engine has a more specialness about it but I am not sure the M3 is 300% of a 330 though, because when you are sat in a M3 it still feels like a normal 3 series and the M3 costs twice as much to run as a 330 but I wouldn't say it's twice the car.

[daveco]

cerb4.5lee said:

Billy_Whizzzz said:

LunarOne said:

in the real world the 330 is 85% of an M3 anyway.

However much you like your 330, it just isn't 85% of the M3. Sounds like you haven't had an M3, which in the real world is always 300% of the 330.The feel of the two is totally, utterly different - in the M3, the engine utterly dominates. The 330 is fine, but certainly nothing like an M3.

I think the chassis on a M3 feels more honed and the engine has a more specialness about it but I am not sure the M3 is 300% of a 330 though, because when you are sat in a M3 it still feels like a normal 3 series and the M3 costs twice as much to run as a 330 but I wouldn't say it's twice the car.

drive a 330 at full chat and you'll be surprised at how rapid it can be. Remember that EVO and a few American Mags got 0-60 times below 6 seconds, and there's several videos of 330s on the Nurburgring giving more exotic metal (including the M5 ring taxi) a run for their money.

[Sump]

daveco said:

cerb4.5lee said:

Billy_Whizzzz said:

LunarOne said:

in the real world the 330 is 85% of an M3 anyway.

However much you like your 330, it just isn't 85% of the M3. Sounds like you haven't had an M3, which in the real world is always 300% of the 330.The feel of the two is totally, utterly different - in the M3, the engine utterly dominates. The 330 is fine, but certainly nothing like an M3.

I think the chassis on a M3 feels more honed and the engine has a more specialness about it but I am not sure the M3 is 300% of a 330 though, because when you are sat in a M3 it still feels like a normal 3 series and the M3 costs twice as much to run as a 330 but I wouldn't say it's twice the car.

drive a 330 at full chat and you'll be surprised at how rapid it can be. Remember that EVO and a few American Mags got 0-60 times below 6 seconds, and there's several videos of 330s on the Nurburgring giving more exotic metal (including the M5 ring taxi) a run for their money.

[LunarOne]

Billy_Whizzzz said:

LunarOne said:

in the real world the 330 is 85% of an M3 anyway.

However much you like your 330, it just isn't 85% of the M3. Sounds like you haven't had an M3, which in the real world is always 300% of the 330.The feel of the two is totally, utterly different - in the M3, the engine utterly dominates. The 330 is fine, but certainly nothing like an M3.

It's true that I haven't owned an M3, but I have driven all the 6 cylinder M3s and I think the E46 330 gives the E36 M3 a serious run for its money and and is not that much short of the E46 M3 ON THE ROAD. NO M3/M4 is 300% of a 330, not even the contemporary F82. They all have the same top speed and the 0-100km/h times are also within a second and a half. On the road the handling of the E46 330ci with sport suspension is more than accomplished enough to be able to hustle it way above legal speeds on almost any given piece of tarmac, which is why I say in the real world where we have to deal with traffic, speed limits, pedestrians and police, the 330Ci is 85% of an M3. It's only on the track where an LSD becomes essential and acceleration above 100km/h really puts the M cars into a totally different category.

[daveco]

Sump said:

daveco said:

cerb4.5lee said:

Billy_Whizzzz said:

LunarOne said:

in the real world the 330 is 85% of an M3 anyway.

However much you like your 330, it just isn't 85% of the M3. Sounds like you haven't had an M3, which in the real world is always 300% of the 330.The feel of the two is totally, utterly different - in the M3, the engine utterly dominates. The 330 is fine, but certainly nothing like an M3.

I think the chassis on a M3 feels more honed and the engine has a more specialness about it but I am not sure the M3 is 300% of a 330 though, because when you are sat in a M3 it still feels like a normal 3 series and the M3 costs twice as much to run as a 330 but I wouldn't say it's twice the car.

drive a 330 at full chat and you'll be surprised at how rapid it can be. Remember that EVO and a few American Mags got 0-60 times below 6 seconds, and there's several videos of 330s on the Nurburgring giving more exotic metal (including the M5 ring taxi) a run for their money.

Tbh I was expecting that kind of reply

[Vincefox]

daveco said:

Sump said:

daveco said:

cerb4.5lee said:

Billy_Whizzzz said:

LunarOne said:

in the real world the 330 is 85% of an M3 anyway.

However much you like your 330, it just isn't 85% of the M3. Sounds like you haven't had an M3, which in the real world is always 300% of the 330.The feel of the two is totally, utterly different - in the M3, the engine utterly dominates. The 330 is fine, but certainly nothing like an M3.

I think the chassis on a M3 feels more honed and the engine has a more specialness about it but I am not sure the M3 is 300% of a 330 though, because when you are sat in a M3 it still feels like a normal 3 series and the M3 costs twice as much to run as a 330 but I wouldn't say it's twice the car.

drive a 330 at full chat and you'll be surprised at how rapid it can be. Remember that EVO and a few American Mags got 0-60 times below 6 seconds, and there's several videos of 330s on the Nurburgring giving more exotic metal (including the M5 ring taxi) a run for their money.

Tbh I was expecting that kind of reply

And you'd be right to.

I'm a BIG fan of the 330 coupe, but to suggest it's a comparable experience to the m3 is at best misguided.