Scary 911 moment
Discussion
Steve H said:
The OP also said that the car had traction and stability control on and was virtually straight at the time.........
I've always found the wet grip under acceleration in these cars to be pretty impressive, the weight over the rear wheels has a huge positive effect and the "backwards through hedges" reputation typically relates more to the older versions, lifting off the throttle and cornering hard - none of which appear to be applicable to the OP's example.
I think the clue lies in the two words 'virtually' and 'boot'. I've always found the wet grip under acceleration in these cars to be pretty impressive, the weight over the rear wheels has a huge positive effect and the "backwards through hedges" reputation typically relates more to the older versions, lifting off the throttle and cornering hard - none of which appear to be applicable to the OP's example.
Get some tuition. You think this is scary, wait until the first time you lift off approaching a corner too fast and find out what lift-off oversteer is like in a powerful RWD car. I learned this in a Caterham 7 on a track, so there was only ego damage as I went backwards into the gravel. However it could have ended in tears. We all know that a 911 will do this and when it does there's a lot of weight to catch and get moving in the right direction again.
Oh, and I have no illusions about my driving skill either. Alain Prost I am not.
Oh, and I have no illusions about my driving skill either. Alain Prost I am not.
Pan Pan Pan said:
bennyboysvuk said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
Vyse said:
What seemed odd about this video is that the driver did not appear to attempt at making any steering correction to counter the slide, nor did he appear to lift off, after getting out of shape, all a bit odd really. Could the driver have been waiting for electronic aids to do the recovery for him?All I can recommend is practising every day if possible.
The main thing about not controlling oversteer is -
The surprise factor. Get enough of that and you are batting on a sticky wicket that is a greasy pole.
I learnt that not in a TVR but in a humble Mk1 Toyota Yaris 1.0 at 70mph in the wet around the 180 degree Junction 5 M25 turn off onto the A21 near Sevenoaks. One minute I was understeering nicely around a prescribed arc, next moment I was looking out the side window, then across to the passenger seat where Cilla Black had appeared saying "Surprise Surprise". I was and I just sat there. The car corrected itself amazingly from obscene oversteer yaw moment. I do not know how but it did. After a bit of practice I eventually could do the whole 180 degrees in understeer, oversteer, understeer, oversteer, and turn it into a 50p piece. And that's in a 68bhp Yaris.
It was the surprise factor that caught me out, if I had gone into it prepared it would have been fine. This is why bikers do not like diesel.
Tyres and electronics have come on a long way, so we now are conditioned to be less surprised due to it not happening as much.
But then when it does of course .....
Brave post by the OP. Have a good weekend and hope you don't get your porker presenting the comfy cushion anytime soon. Nobody should expect the German inquisition.
The surprise factor. Get enough of that and you are batting on a sticky wicket that is a greasy pole.
I learnt that not in a TVR but in a humble Mk1 Toyota Yaris 1.0 at 70mph in the wet around the 180 degree Junction 5 M25 turn off onto the A21 near Sevenoaks. One minute I was understeering nicely around a prescribed arc, next moment I was looking out the side window, then across to the passenger seat where Cilla Black had appeared saying "Surprise Surprise". I was and I just sat there. The car corrected itself amazingly from obscene oversteer yaw moment. I do not know how but it did. After a bit of practice I eventually could do the whole 180 degrees in understeer, oversteer, understeer, oversteer, and turn it into a 50p piece. And that's in a 68bhp Yaris.
It was the surprise factor that caught me out, if I had gone into it prepared it would have been fine. This is why bikers do not like diesel.
Tyres and electronics have come on a long way, so we now are conditioned to be less surprised due to it not happening as much.
But then when it does of course .....
Brave post by the OP. Have a good weekend and hope you don't get your porker presenting the comfy cushion anytime soon. Nobody should expect the German inquisition.
Edited by Gandahar on Friday 5th February 14:45
My first real drive in a RWD car was my dads 5.3 V12 XJS Jag... that could just about wiggle (difficult with a 3 speed auto i think i remember!) but you probably wouldn't want to do it in a car like this...more recently he bought a Mercedes SLK 230k and it soon made me aware how much you need to respect and be smooth with RWD after many years driving FWD and its only 200 bhp.
DonkeyApple said:
Steve H said:
The OP also said that the car had traction and stability control on and was virtually straight at the time.........
I've always found the wet grip under acceleration in these cars to be pretty impressive, the weight over the rear wheels has a huge positive effect and the "backwards through hedges" reputation typically relates more to the older versions, lifting off the throttle and cornering hard - none of which appear to be applicable to the OP's example.
I think the clue lies in the two words 'virtually' and 'boot'. I've always found the wet grip under acceleration in these cars to be pretty impressive, the weight over the rear wheels has a huge positive effect and the "backwards through hedges" reputation typically relates more to the older versions, lifting off the throttle and cornering hard - none of which appear to be applicable to the OP's example.
He may have caused this but lets not pretend that modern 911s are widow-makers, they are designed for every-man-and-his-dog to drive without any drama and when in the correct condition they do not handle like lairy TVRs or Caterhams.
Sometimes the conditions are such that the grip level is very, very low. Nice smooth old tarmac, damp and greasy but not wet. In those conditions it takes only the slightest provocation to get things out of shape.
A few weeks ago I pulled out from the local hand car wash in an auto 320d. A kind guy in a truck signalled for me to pull out, so I duly gave it some left hand lock and a reasonable slug of throttle. The resultant manoeuvre must have looked like something from the Dukes of Hazard, as the tarmac, wet and greasy with whatever tyre shine they use, combined with too much torque for grip, to provide a lairy oversteer moment Michelle Mouton would be proud of. The electronics only woke up once a significant yaw angle/motion had accumulated.
And then my wife told me off.
A few weeks ago I pulled out from the local hand car wash in an auto 320d. A kind guy in a truck signalled for me to pull out, so I duly gave it some left hand lock and a reasonable slug of throttle. The resultant manoeuvre must have looked like something from the Dukes of Hazard, as the tarmac, wet and greasy with whatever tyre shine they use, combined with too much torque for grip, to provide a lairy oversteer moment Michelle Mouton would be proud of. The electronics only woke up once a significant yaw angle/motion had accumulated.
And then my wife told me off.
I seem to recall from the manual of my 996 that above 62mph the PASM basically doesn't work anyway. Not sure about the 997s, pretty sure the manual reminds the driver the car cannot alter the laws of physics!
Glad the OP was not hurt, only in pride. My M3 did a similar thing to me the other day, although without the spin/slide at the end - i corrected and we carried on and I reduced my speed to compensate for obviously less-than-suspected road grip.
Glad the OP was not hurt, only in pride. My M3 did a similar thing to me the other day, although without the spin/slide at the end - i corrected and we carried on and I reduced my speed to compensate for obviously less-than-suspected road grip.
battered said:
Get some tuition. You think this is scary, wait until the first time you lift off approaching a corner too fast and find out what lift-off oversteer is like in a powerful RWD car. I learned this in a Caterham 7 on a track, so there was only ego damage as I went backwards into the gravel. However it could have ended in tears. We all know that a 911 will do this and when it does there's a lot of weight to catch and get moving in the right direction again.
Oh, and I have no illusions about my driving skill either. Alain Prost I am not.
Not sure, but it seems you are the only one so far to mention lift off oversteer. Experienced this a few time myself, but usually only when pressing on a bit, and not at the relatively low speed of the car in this particular video. It doesn't half get ones attention though, doesn't it! Oh, and I have no illusions about my driving skill either. Alain Prost I am not.
Steve H said:
DonkeyApple said:
Steve H said:
The OP also said that the car had traction and stability control on and was virtually straight at the time.........
I've always found the wet grip under acceleration in these cars to be pretty impressive, the weight over the rear wheels has a huge positive effect and the "backwards through hedges" reputation typically relates more to the older versions, lifting off the throttle and cornering hard - none of which appear to be applicable to the OP's example.
I think the clue lies in the two words 'virtually' and 'boot'. I've always found the wet grip under acceleration in these cars to be pretty impressive, the weight over the rear wheels has a huge positive effect and the "backwards through hedges" reputation typically relates more to the older versions, lifting off the throttle and cornering hard - none of which appear to be applicable to the OP's example.
He may have caused this but lets not pretend that modern 911s are widow-makers, they are designed for every-man-and-his-dog to drive without any drama and when in the correct condition they do not handle like lairy TVRs or Caterhams.
Pan Pan Pan said:
Perhaps earlier 911`s were a bit lairy, but I am still amazed at how Porsche designers and engineers have taken what is essentially a flawed format (great big engine hanging out behind the rear wheels) and made these cars handle so well.
Yes, they seem to have got a good grip of thing.911 was not the only mid- or rear-engined car to have a distinct enthusiasm for spinning into a hedge. And people wonder why cars are set up to understeer...
Pan Pan Pan said:
Digby said:
jamieduff1981 said:
Learning to manage powerful RWD cars is what makes them so rewarding.
...without all the electronic crap.heebeegeetee said:
Steve H said:
OP, make sure the tyres and alignment is 100% before you listen to all the driving gods and blame yourself entirely.
Well said!That's absolutely the first correct answer imo. Without doing alignment first all the other reasons are cobblers imho.
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