M6 Gridlock this morning

[The original Nick the Greek]

Antony Moxey said:

Ah cheers. Can we speak in English then rather than code? It can't be that hard to write 'Birmingham Airport'.

Indeed.

And certainly no more difficult than understanding what a brummie is saying......

[Rawwr]

Antony Moxey said:

What is BHX?

British Home Xtores.

[John D.]

La Liga said:

Willy Nilly said:

La Liga said:

Willy Nilly said:

What do these accident investigations actually achieve overall?

Establishing whether someone should be prosecuted (obviously if anyone remains alive) and detailed information for the Coroner.

It's annoying when roads are shut for sometime, but they are treated as crime scenes and part of the strategy is always looking to open roads as soon as possible and minimise disruption.

So what has the benefit been over all? Has information been gained from doing these that has lead to less road deaths? Has the amount of disruption caused by the investigations been paid back by reduced disruptions? AFAIK this crash happened in the wee small hours. I'll wager someone just nodded off. People make mistakes on roads as a rule, they don't murder people, the priority should be getting the road open.

In 2012, there were 643 prosecutions for causing death in a vehicle. That's from a total of 1754 road deaths. You have to account for multiple fatalities and occasions where it's single occupant. Even without those considerations, there's roughly a 1 in 3 chance there'll be a prosecution for a serious offence in a fatal RTC. Clearly it's only right the priority should be a proper and thorough investigation given how likely a prosecution is.

Understanding how/why it happened so something can be done to prevent a reoccurence is another reason, never mind prosecutions.

I'm assuming Willy Nilly recognises the value of human life.

[Sheepshanks]

I heard they're replacing 3000 square meters of road surface.

What seems odd to me is that the accident happened at 2AM, yet one report from a driver said he got stuck at 11AM, going from the M42 to the M6. So I can only assume it was partially open, then they closed it.

Seems particularly ridiculous that they allowed people to continue to join from the M42 in that case.

Edited by Sheepshanks on Thursday 4th February 21:23

[skwdenyer]

John D. said:

Understanding how/why it happened so something can be done to prevent a reoccurence is another reason, never mind prosecutions.

I'm assuming Willy Nilly recognises the value of human life.

We recognise the value of some human lives more than others in our society, however...

[anonymous-user]

John D. said:

Understanding how/why it happened so something can be done to prevent a reoccurence is another reason, never mind prosecutions.

Absolutely. Feeds into road safety development. Also sends a message. 'Drive dangerously and kill someone go to prison' etc.

[NoNeed]

The roads are still all grid-locked, I have been trying to get home from the airport (birmingham) to erdington for the last 3 hours, usually a 20 minute journey. Having just got back from Lanzarote I was blissfully unaware of the scale of the problem, untill an hour into my 20 minute trip.

I was I had jumped the train when I had the chance

[Dan_1981]

sheepman said:

Dan_1981 said:

Left BHX at 17:00.

Current sat at Coleshill.

I finished work (JLR solihull) at 16.45 and got home at 18:15 near Cannock. I went through kingsbury.

someone I know who lives in the same area left JLR at 15.30 through coleshill and he's still not home

Finally home in Sheffield at 22:15!

[smithyithy]

There's been subsequent accidents in the area I think.

[paranoid airbag]

Willy Nilly said:

So what has the benefit been over all? Has information been gained from doing these that has lead to less road deaths?

Yes. Even if it doesn't do so directly (e.g. by getting enough evidence to put a dangerous loony behind bars and hence stop them doing so again).

A lot of information is only really valuable en masse. If the crash was due to someone using their phone illegally, or legally, or running bald tyres or summer tyres in winter or whatever - is that a freak situation, or one worth spending resources on stopping?

You can slag people off on the internet about what you think is dangerous and should be stopped, but you don't really have a clue unless you collect data from a large number of accidents.

[andrewparker]

Beggars belief that people have the audacity to complain about it taking longer than usual to get somewhere when a poor man (someone's son, may be someone's dad) has died in a crash. What do you expect to happen? Scrape them off the road and carry on like nothing has happened?

[battered]

andrewparker said:

Beggars belief that people have the audacity to complain about it taking longer than usual to get somewhere when a poor man (someone's son, may be someone's dad) has died in a crash. What do you expect to happen? Scrape them off the road and carry on like nothing has happened?

No, no, no, you have it all wrong. It's far more important that Gareth Cheeseman gets to work and maybe his latest deal-clinching photocopier sales meeting than working out why someone died. Someone died. Probably only a Brummie anyway.*

• To make it very clear, the last line about Brummies is very much a joke, with the target being people who think that investigating accidents is somehow "nanny state gone mad". It's not, for the reasons other people have raised.

[Sheepshanks]

battered said:

No, no, no, you have it all wrong. It's far more important that Gareth Cheeseman gets to work and maybe his latest deal-clinching photocopier sales meeting than working out why someone died.

I don't think anyone could argue with there needing to be some level of investigation, and if the road's damaged then it's got to be fixed.

It's hard to proportion the impact to someone's life, but it's not just about Gareth - the numbers affected must run into 6 figures. It seems particularly ridiculous that when it happens on a road with a parallel alternative - the M6 Toll - that nothing could have been done to alleviate the gridlock.

[battered]

The management of the disruption is another matter and as you say this is where the authorities could and should improve things.

[xjay1337]

danlightbulb said:

About 10 years ago now there was someone on a bridge over the M6 in the midlands who was threatening to jump. It gridlocked the whole area for hours. I remember thinking if was near i'd have pushed the fker off myself.

But, in these situations, why don't the police just set up a big inflatable bag and then tranquil dart the guy. It seems they pussy around these things too much.

Wow, really?

As much as i think people who jump into a train or onto a motorway are pricks we do need to think about their mental health. Is someone life not worth a few hours of your time?

[The original Nick the Greek]

xjay1337 said:

Wow, really?

As much as i think people who jump into a train or onto a motorway are pricks we do need to think about their mental health. Is someone life not worth a few hours of your time?

I don't agree that those mentally ill are 'pricks".

You wouldn't call someone just diagnosed with cancer a prick.

Mental illness isn't a CHOICE.

In the same way that cancer isn't a CHOICE.

[Mr2Mike]

The original Nick the Greek said:

I don't agree that those mentally ill are 'pricks".

You wouldn't call someone just diagnosed with cancer a prick.

Mental illness isn't a CHOICE.

In the same way that cancer isn't a CHOICE.

On one had I agree with you, but there are plenty of ways of taking your own life without ruining the life of complete strangers.

[Pothole]

ikarl said:

Willy Nilly said:

So what has the benefit been over all? Has information been gained from doing these that has lead to less road deaths? Has the amount of disruption caused by the investigations been paid back by reduced disruptions? AFAIK this crash happened in the wee small hours. I'll wager someone just nodded off. People make mistakes on roads as a rule, they don't murder people, the priority should be getting the road open.

If it was my wife or child that had been killed I'd want a thorough explanation.. I can imagine my reaction if they said they didn't bother so they didn't hold people up.

And I think that's exactly the reaction the authorities are addressing (or pandering to, depending on your personal point of view). Personally, I have a more philosophical approach to death in general. I'm not sure I'd want tens of thousands of people to be disrupted so that plod could tell me it's most likely that party A dozed off or party B sneezed and lost control. No amount of information would change the fact that my loved one was dead.

[Rawwr]

Mr2Mike said:

On one had I agree with you, but there are plenty of ways of taking your own life without ruining the life of complete strangers.

That's the thing about mental illness, your thought processes aren't entirely lucid, sane and reasonable.

[Pothole]

xjay1337 said:

danlightbulb said:

About 10 years ago now there was someone on a bridge over the M6 in the midlands who was threatening to jump. It gridlocked the whole area for hours. I remember thinking if was near i'd have pushed the fker off myself.

But, in these situations, why don't the police just set up a big inflatable bag and then tranquil dart the guy. It seems they pussy around these things too much.

Wow, really?

As much as i think people who jump into a train or onto a motorway are pricks we do need to think about their mental health. Is someone life not worth a few hours of your time?

They're clearly not thinking rationally but there's a hell of a lot more effect than "a few hours of (anyone's)time" involved in a person who takes their life on the railway network.