M6 Gridlock this morning
Discussion
danlightbulb said:
About 10 years ago now there was someone on a bridge over the M6 in the midlands who was threatening to jump. It gridlocked the whole area for hours. I remember thinking if was near i'd have pushed the f
ker off myself.
But, in these situations, why don't the police just set up a big inflatable bag and then tranquil dart the guy. It seems they pussy around these things too much.
The 1950's are on the phone;they'd like word. ker off myself.But, in these situations, why don't the police just set up a big inflatable bag and then tranquil dart the guy. It seems they pussy around these things too much.
I can see both sides. Many years ago I worked as a recovery driver around South Yorkshire particularly A1 M1 and M18. We were always told we had 30 mins to reopen a motorway for a normal crash. If it was a truck going over then that is not going to happen. If it was a fatal, they sent out a specialist who took photos and measurements and I never knew it being closed for more that a couple of hours.
What has changed is they way lawyers work looking for blame and hence the police now have to do every little bit, even if it is not fatal but might become one. If the police have somehow failed to gather evidence that is later deemed crucial, they can be held financially responsible. The bereaved need to find an end and in my experience even when faced with facts that it was their loved ones fault, they find it impossible to accept.
For me though, not necessarily in this case, so many of these accidents happen during the very early hours of the day, usually involving heavy goods vehicles where it would appear the drivers have nodded off. This is a big issue that some haulage companies cannot wait for autonomous trucks to do the trunking, to take away risk.
What has changed is they way lawyers work looking for blame and hence the police now have to do every little bit, even if it is not fatal but might become one. If the police have somehow failed to gather evidence that is later deemed crucial, they can be held financially responsible. The bereaved need to find an end and in my experience even when faced with facts that it was their loved ones fault, they find it impossible to accept.
For me though, not necessarily in this case, so many of these accidents happen during the very early hours of the day, usually involving heavy goods vehicles where it would appear the drivers have nodded off. This is a big issue that some haulage companies cannot wait for autonomous trucks to do the trunking, to take away risk.
spaximus said:
I can see both sides. Many years ago I worked as a recovery driver around South Yorkshire particularly A1 M1 and M18. We were always told we had 30 mins to reopen a motorway for a normal crash. If it was a truck going over then that is not going to happen. If it was a fatal, they sent out a specialist who took photos and measurements and I never knew it being closed for more that a couple of hours.
What has changed is they way lawyers work looking for blame and hence the police now have to do every little bit, even if it is not fatal but might become one. If the police have somehow failed to gather evidence that is later deemed crucial, they can be held financially responsible. The bereaved need to find an end and in my experience even when faced with facts that it was their loved ones fault, they find it impossible to accept.
For me though, not necessarily in this case, so many of these accidents happen during the very early hours of the day, usually involving heavy goods vehicles where it would appear the drivers have nodded off. This is a big issue that some haulage companies cannot wait for autonomous trucks to do the trunking, to take away risk.
Spot on.What has changed is they way lawyers work looking for blame and hence the police now have to do every little bit, even if it is not fatal but might become one. If the police have somehow failed to gather evidence that is later deemed crucial, they can be held financially responsible. The bereaved need to find an end and in my experience even when faced with facts that it was their loved ones fault, they find it impossible to accept.
For me though, not necessarily in this case, so many of these accidents happen during the very early hours of the day, usually involving heavy goods vehicles where it would appear the drivers have nodded off. This is a big issue that some haulage companies cannot wait for autonomous trucks to do the trunking, to take away risk.
I don't agree that pressure from civil lawyers for death or injury claims are responsible for more detailed analysis of serious injury or death crash scenes.
More likely in my opinion that pressure from the public, finding deaths and injuries on the road less and less acceptable, allied to more advanced technology allowing better quality investigations, has led the Police to spend more time and effort on these scenes over time.
It's worth noting the present government's direction of travel regards RTAs is very much against the legal industry, in any case.
For my part, I'd rather the authorities took a bit more time investigating serious accidents, so we might better understand and learn from the causes and results, than over-prioritise journey times.
More likely in my opinion that pressure from the public, finding deaths and injuries on the road less and less acceptable, allied to more advanced technology allowing better quality investigations, has led the Police to spend more time and effort on these scenes over time.
It's worth noting the present government's direction of travel regards RTAs is very much against the legal industry, in any case.
For my part, I'd rather the authorities took a bit more time investigating serious accidents, so we might better understand and learn from the causes and results, than over-prioritise journey times.
One thing that nobody has mentioned is that a significant amount of the passive safety in vehicles today is as a result of hours spent at the roadside in the pissing rain, and in the lab and workshop figuring out why a collision happened and why those involved got the injuries that they suffered.
So for those complaining about a delay, and why can't we just sweep stuff to the side and let them continue, well I'm tempted to call you a set of counts (sp?) but you have neither the warmth nor the depth.
So for those complaining about a delay, and why can't we just sweep stuff to the side and let them continue, well I'm tempted to call you a set of counts (sp?) but you have neither the warmth nor the depth.
In situations like these all notions of power to weight, balance and fun go right out the window. When stuck in traffic I immediately start wishing I were relaxed in a luxo barge with an automatic gearbox, blissful silence, comfy seats and an incredible Hi-Fi. The harsh reality of the world v the fantasy of driving pleasure raises its head yet again. Maybe I should give up my notions of stripped back fun in my next car. Perhaps I should opt for a Jaguar XK after all. Mmm...
Perhaps with all the modern technology around these days could gathering evidence be made much more efficient ie quicker, we can take pictures from miles up in the air, so could an area not be scanned from much lower down to gather any evidence of skid marks and points of impact, be it vehicle to vehicle or vehicle to tree/barrier etc.
If money was no object there would be repair teams based at regular intervals ready to go into action and repair any damage caused to the road or barriers or whatever.
The air bag thing seems like a sensible idea if used correctly for anybody feeling suicidal. It could be built onto a truck and driven to where it was needed, the person on the bridge could then be approached a lot quicker and if they did jump they would not be hurt and could be helped a lot quicker with whatever was troubling them.
If money was no object there would be repair teams based at regular intervals ready to go into action and repair any damage caused to the road or barriers or whatever.
The air bag thing seems like a sensible idea if used correctly for anybody feeling suicidal. It could be built onto a truck and driven to where it was needed, the person on the bridge could then be approached a lot quicker and if they did jump they would not be hurt and could be helped a lot quicker with whatever was troubling them.
The whole area has been a nightmare for two days now, different reasons (M6 accident, M5 contractor fk up), accidents on surrounding routes (may or may not be connected with the closures, but at least one was fatal, A38).
I lost five hours on the M6 closure, and bascialy the whole of Friday to the M5 one, a drive that was ordered Thursday for delivery Friday hasn't arrived, so cannot be fitted Monday, I can't switch the jobs around next week so will have to work out of hours Monday evening to get the job done, assuming I get the drive on Monday.
It could take me all next week to recover from these two closures, and I'm just a two man band.
These closures (for whatever reason they happen) cause massive disruption for thousands, if not tens of thousands of people.
So to all the do gooders ..... fk off , it starts to wear a bit thin !
k up), accidents on surrounding routes (may or may not be connected with the closures, but at least one was fatal, A38).I lost five hours on the M6 closure, and bascialy the whole of Friday to the M5 one, a drive that was ordered Thursday for delivery Friday hasn't arrived, so cannot be fitted Monday, I can't switch the jobs around next week so will have to work out of hours Monday evening to get the job done, assuming I get the drive on Monday.
It could take me all next week to recover from these two closures, and I'm just a two man band.
These closures (for whatever reason they happen) cause massive disruption for thousands, if not tens of thousands of people.
So to all the do gooders ..... f
k off , it starts to wear a bit thin !Pothole said:
ikarl said:
Willy Nilly said:
So what has the benefit been over all? Has information been gained from doing these that has lead to less road deaths? Has the amount of disruption caused by the investigations been paid back by reduced disruptions? AFAIK this crash happened in the wee small hours. I'll wager someone just nodded off. People make mistakes on roads as a rule, they don't murder people, the priority should be getting the road open.
If it was my wife or child that had been killed I'd want a thorough explanation.. I can imagine my reaction if they said they didn't bother so they didn't hold people up. 
Willy Nilly said:
So what has the benefit been over all? Has information been gained from doing these that has lead to less road deaths? Has the amount of disruption caused by the investigations been paid back by reduced disruptions? AFAIK this crash happened in the wee small hours. I'll wager someone just nodded off. People make mistakes on roads as a rule, they don't murder people, the priority should be getting the road open.
Next time you are stuck in a jam, just remember someone else is having a much worse day than you..and they're probably dead so not to mention the toll on families.Seriously, some context in life.
silent ninja said:
Willy Nilly said:
So what has the benefit been over all? Has information been gained from doing these that has lead to less road deaths? Has the amount of disruption caused by the investigations been paid back by reduced disruptions? AFAIK this crash happened in the wee small hours. I'll wager someone just nodded off. People make mistakes on roads as a rule, they don't murder people, the priority should be getting the road open.
Next time you are stuck in a jam, just remember someone else is having a much worse day than you..and they're probably dead so not to mention the toll on families.Seriously, some context in life.
Compassion in some people is gone. Selfishness rules.
John D. said:
I'm assuming Willy Nilly recognises the value of human life.
What is the value ?You can save various people dying for less than 50p yet they are dying everyday.
Various agencies / companies / NHS / Govts place values on human lives and not one would value an average life at over £200k
Remind me how much it costs to keep a major motorway closed for an hour ?
V8RX7 said:
What is the value ?
You can save various people dying for less than 50p yet they are dying everyday.
Various agencies / companies / NHS / Govts place values on human lives and not one would value an average life at over £200k
Remind me how much it costs to keep a major motorway closed for an hour ?
You're looking at things economically and materialistically. This is a moral question. For the same reason, society thinks we should look after the vulnerable and weak - does that economically make sense? Probably not but we do it.You can save various people dying for less than 50p yet they are dying everyday.
Various agencies / companies / NHS / Govts place values on human lives and not one would value an average life at over £200k
Remind me how much it costs to keep a major motorway closed for an hour ?
BTW to answer your question, how much do you think it costs to look after many cancer patients? More than £200k. You wouldn't get very far if you paid for your own healthcare.
andrewparker said:
Over a decade ago I lost my brother in a road accident. Although the Accident Investigators did all they could to establish a cause, one was never found. For myself and my parents it's a question that will always be there. I'm pretty sure that a few people were inconvenienced that Sunday afternoon many years ago, and because no cause was found it's very unlikely anything can be learnt from his death, but can you imagine how we'd feel if he was hurried off to the mortuary without someone at least trying to find out why he died at such a young age?
Compassion in some people is gone. Selfishness rules.
Sorry to hear that dude. Condolences.Compassion in some people is gone. Selfishness rules.
The Me society is full of crap because we'd achieve nothing if we were only concerned about ourselves.
Look at the greedy investment bankers who think they make money based on their so-called 'talent.' If they were that good, why don't they move to a third world country like Ethiopia and set up shop? They wouldn't make a penny. Truth is, they owe society a huge debt from education, healthcare, the legal system, financial structures, security, the entire infrastructure that supported them to get to the point where they could operate in such a business. But they turn around and say we don't owe society anything once they make a little bit of money. Hypocrisy is phenomenal. /end rant
Pothole said:
ikarl said:
Willy Nilly said:
So what has the benefit been over all? Has information been gained from doing these that has lead to less road deaths? Has the amount of disruption caused by the investigations been paid back by reduced disruptions? AFAIK this crash happened in the wee small hours. I'll wager someone just nodded off. People make mistakes on roads as a rule, they don't murder people, the priority should be getting the road open.
If it was my wife or child that had been killed I'd want a thorough explanation.. I can imagine my reaction if they said they didn't bother so they didn't hold people up. You can see how that's went.
I understand your point, no amount of information would change the fact your loved one was dead,..but after all that, wouldn't you want justice if they were killed in a similar manner? Surely you'd want someone held to account if they were seriously culpable.
The biggest part of the problem really is not the accident itself, or the following investigation time, but its that the roads do not enable for the existing traffic to reroute.
Take Thursday's M6 problem. A mate at work was stuck in it, several hours after it happened. He was approaching the area from the south and the motorway was running clear. He would have taken the toll, because he knew about the accident several hours before, but on approach to the toll the overhead signs were saying it was blocked due to an accident. As the M6 was running at normal speed he carried on past the toll. As soon as he passed the toll junction he came to a standstill. He then had to crawl all the way to J5 where traffic was being allowed off. Now J5 is an awful junction, not designed to carry any real traffic load. The traffic lights at the bottom of the slip road were on their normal settings only allowing a few cars at a time through.
Now its not beyond the realms of management to get some traffic police down and properly let traffic flow off the motorway in larger numbers. Its not impossible to remove a section of barrier and allow traffic to U-turn onto the southbound carriageway to get away from the area.
Its often that these events are managed extremely poorly in my opinion, rather than the accident itself. We need better event management options.
Here's a simple idea - if there has been a crash between 4 and 11 of the M6, then make the M6 toll free access. There goes 2/3rd of the traffic issue.
Take Thursday's M6 problem. A mate at work was stuck in it, several hours after it happened. He was approaching the area from the south and the motorway was running clear. He would have taken the toll, because he knew about the accident several hours before, but on approach to the toll the overhead signs were saying it was blocked due to an accident. As the M6 was running at normal speed he carried on past the toll. As soon as he passed the toll junction he came to a standstill. He then had to crawl all the way to J5 where traffic was being allowed off. Now J5 is an awful junction, not designed to carry any real traffic load. The traffic lights at the bottom of the slip road were on their normal settings only allowing a few cars at a time through.
Now its not beyond the realms of management to get some traffic police down and properly let traffic flow off the motorway in larger numbers. Its not impossible to remove a section of barrier and allow traffic to U-turn onto the southbound carriageway to get away from the area.
Its often that these events are managed extremely poorly in my opinion, rather than the accident itself. We need better event management options.
Here's a simple idea - if there has been a crash between 4 and 11 of the M6, then make the M6 toll free access. There goes 2/3rd of the traffic issue.
Edited by danlightbulb on Saturday 6th February 18:38
The original Nick the Greek said:
I don't agree that those mentally ill are 'pricks".
You wouldn't call someone just diagnosed with cancer a prick.
Mental illness isn't a CHOICE.
In the same way that cancer isn't a CHOICE.
Perhaps you mis understand me.You wouldn't call someone just diagnosed with cancer a prick.
Mental illness isn't a CHOICE.
In the same way that cancer isn't a CHOICE.
I am saying if we have to close a motorway for a few hours its worth it to save someones life.
But that doesnt take away from the fact it is an incredibly selfish thing to do - although i appreciate not everyone is in the right mindset. For many people a suicide attempt is a cry for attention - they want to be remembered or to have caused something or someone to take notice.
What better way than jumping off a bridge infront of a train or rush hour traffic.
Fwiw when i tried to take my own life it was at home with some paracetamol. Useless prick i am didnt take enough. Oh well
danlightbulb said:
About 10 years ago now there was someone on a bridge over the M6 in the midlands who was threatening to jump. It gridlocked the whole area for hours. I remember thinking if was near i'd have pushed the fker off myself.
But, in these situations, why don't the police just set up a big inflatable bag and then tranquil dart the guy. It seems they pussy around these things too much.
It used to be a regular occurrence on Runcorn bridge , the whole of the north west would come to a halt because some tool didn't get a shag ker off myself.But, in these situations, why don't the police just set up a big inflatable bag and then tranquil dart the guy. It seems they pussy around these things too much.
In 1990 I saw a guy jump off a bridge on the M6 at J10, I was southbound 8am ish saw him standing on the northbound side then as I went under the bridge he jumped and died.
I had a car phone which was rare at the time so I rang the police , got called as a witness to the inquest which wasn't pleasant but amazingly he landed right in the middle of a lane and hit nobody , selfish b
d Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff