Too much power ???????

Author
Discussion

jjr1

3,023 posts

259 months

Thursday 4th February 2016
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After years of getting more and more powerful cars I have to admit I am in 'the less is more camp'. I am not sure what the ultimate BHP I got to was but somewhere around 450bhp. On the road this just leads to higher and higher speeds but not exactly to more fun. It sounds like am oxymoron but bear with me.

My GT86 was just a proper hoot. Far from being underpowered it just made you go back to basics. Proper well thought out overtakes and very delicate inputs in slippery conditions. Strangely the fact you are not going 10x faster than other traffic made it more fun.

I will not go back to the big grip high powered cars anymore as it just means that I have to drive far twice as fast to get the same fun/excitement.

PS I still ride a 200bhp bike on the road, which again would appear hypocritical but sometimes I question whether that is worth it, as it doesn't feel alive till you are in prison territory speeds.........

Pdelamare

659 posts

127 months

Thursday 4th February 2016
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TheJimi said:
Pdelamare said:
My 600hp Caterham is a pussycat to drive around, able places.
Holy mother of lumping feckery!

Just to be clear, that's actual power as opposed to power/weight ratio?

This needs a thread readit


Edit: Just realised it's the Levante. I'd actually forgotten that existed! Still, definitely worthy of more detail yes

Edited by TheJimi on Thursday 4th February 23:01
neil-935ql said:
[quoted=TheJimi]

Holy mother of lumping feckery!

Just to be clear, that's actual power as opposed to power/weight ratio?

This needs a thread readit
Yes a 600 bhp caterham how is that possible ? Turbo or supercharger , or both ?
There are a couple of threads on it in the Caterham forum, bits of track day footage also. Mine is a Superlight S3 chassis version, instead of the SV, so 1170hp per tonne.

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

The motor is a 2.3 litre V6 with supercharger, 10k revs.

xRIEx

8,180 posts

147 months

Friday 5th February 2016
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R8VXF said:
You do not need to use it all
This is the salient point in these discussions, and I sometimes wonder if many people don't realise how engines and power works, especially when they say something like, "my car has 400bhp and I use it all, all of the time." Peak power occurs at one point in the rev range, at one throttle opening (as I'm sure most PHers already know). It would be interesting if we could datalog throttle position and engine speed, then use a computer to recreate a particular drive on a dyno and see exactly how much power was used.

The Ducati 1198S (IIRC) had a datalogging feature and a mate (who didn't hang about) posted some graphs of his - full throttle was only used for the briefest moments (road riding) and even on track it was only something like 4% of the time.

xRIEx

8,180 posts

147 months

Friday 5th February 2016
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Pdelamare said:
The motor is a 2.3 litre V6 with supercharger, 10k revs.
Two Triumph Daytona engines?

Alex_225

6,233 posts

200 months

Friday 5th February 2016
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Having lots of power is a satisfying thing, I have a CLS63 and it makes a bit over 500bhp. It's a big car, it's comfy and it's very quick. Do I use all the power very often? Hardly ever, especially as it comes in at 6,800rpm but it's nice to know it's there.

Having said that I also own an RenaultSport Twingo, which has a massive 131bhp. It's easily as satisfying to drive because you can use 131bhp without doing crazy speeds, it handles brilliantly and is very engaging.

So no, I don't think you need loads of power, some of it is wasted but then I wouldn't want a big heavy car that was underpowered. I'd rather have the power there if I rarely use it.

neil-935ql

Original Poster:

1,078 posts

105 months

Friday 5th February 2016
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Alex_225 said:
Having lots of power is a satisfying thing, I have a CLS63 and it makes a bit over 500bhp. It's a big car, it's comfy and it's very quick. Do I use all the power very often? Hardly ever, especially as it comes in at 6,800rpm but it's nice to know it's there.

Having said that I also own an RenaultSport Twingo, which has a massive 131bhp. It's easily as satisfying to drive because you can use 131bhp without doing crazy speeds, it handles brilliantly and is very engaging.

So no, I don't think you need loads of power, some of it is wasted but then I wouldn't want a big heavy car that was underpowered. I'd rather have the power there if I rarely use it.
So I guess power is important for some and not others , and some can enjoy both sides of the coin , and most people never really use all the performance their cars can deliver , I guess its just nice to know you have the power just if you fancy !

Pdelamare

659 posts

127 months

Friday 5th February 2016
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xRIEx said:
Two Triumph Daytona engines?
It's the top ends (heads only) of two Yamaha 1150cc ski-mobiles mated to a custom 120 degree block and crack. It's all forged etc and weighs only 83kgs including the supercharger. It's shallow enough to fit between the top and bottom chassis rails of the car, so CofG is very low.
It'll rev to 13k if allowed, but is limited to 10k for the sake of longevity of itself, gearbox, diff etc.
The service intervals are 10k miles for minor servicing, and belts need changing at 30k.

neil-935ql

Original Poster:

1,078 posts

105 months

Friday 5th February 2016
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could the Cayman / boxster hit the usable sweet spot for power on our roads , it has to have a good shout I guess it will always be known as the poor mans 911 , but is so much better than that !

GravelBen

15,652 posts

229 months

Friday 5th February 2016
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R8VXF said:
Doesn't matter what gear gives you a particular speed, more power is always better. You do not need to use it all to have fun, but you can use to annihilate opposition.
If you're talking about racing then its more interesting with evenly matched cars.

If you're talking about road driving then there is no 'opposition' as its not a race.

Having more power than you can sensibly use is nice at times, but I've had more fun hustling involving lower powered cars along at semi-legal speeds than cruising at the same speed using a small percentage of what a faster car is capable of.

HustleRussell

24,602 posts

159 months

Friday 5th February 2016
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Got my first speeding ticket in 5 years in a 1.0 Citroen Saxo. Lack of weight, peppy little engine and useful gear ratios make it feel plenty fast enough and a lot of fun. I've had 'power oversteer' in it too.

R8VXF

6,788 posts

114 months

Friday 5th February 2016
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GravelBen said:
R8VXF said:
Doesn't matter what gear gives you a particular speed, more power is always better. You do not need to use it all to have fun, but you can use to annihilate opposition.
If you're talking about racing then its more interesting with evenly matched cars.

If you're talking about road driving then there is no 'opposition' as its not a race.

Having more power than you can sensibly use is nice at times, but I've had more fun hustling involving lower powered cars along at semi-legal speeds than cruising at the same speed using a small percentage of what a faster car is capable of.
Anyone in life who is not me is opposition.

On my drive I have a 1.2 petrol, a 2.0 diesel and a 6.2 s/c petrol. The most fun is had in the biggest engine, as I can have the same amount of fun as the less powerful alternatives and push it even further.

Bodged

116 posts

109 months

Friday 5th February 2016
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neil-935ql said:
could the Cayman / boxster hit the usable sweet spot for power on our roads , it has to have a good shout I guess it will always be known as the poor mans 911 , but is so much better than that !
If the gearing was lower then maybe.

GravelBen

15,652 posts

229 months

Friday 5th February 2016
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R8VXF said:
Anyone in life who is not me is opposition.

On my drive I have a 1.2 petrol, a 2.0 diesel and a 6.2 s/c petrol. The most fun is had in the biggest engine, as I can have the same amount of fun as the less powerful alternatives and push it even further.
I'm glad I don't have to share roads with you.

jayemm89

4,001 posts

129 months

Friday 5th February 2016
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I guess there's two questions here - does a car have too much power to be safely drivable... or is it just too fast for our draconian speed limits?

There are a few cars which are the former, but loads which are the latter. Bear in mind my 1.4 diesel peugeot 207 van can attain licence losing speeds... eventually.

The problem I have where I live is there are twisting country roads, and idiots doing 40 on them. When the roads are clear, a car could have any power and I'll have fun. Case in point I recently drove a 981 Boxster. Hardly overflowing with torque or power, but sounded great and I didn't care as it was great fun. However, minute you have to pass a plodding pensioner then suddenly having 500 lb-ft of torque becomes quite useful!

Rawwr

22,722 posts

233 months

Friday 5th February 2016
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R8VXF said:
Anyone in life who is not me is opposition.

On my drive I have a 1.2 petrol, a 2.0 diesel and a 6.2 s/c petrol. The most fun is had in the biggest engine, as I can have the same amount of fun as the less powerful alternatives and push it even further.
I really hope you're not serious but if you are; how do you feel when something quicker disappears off into the distance and you can't keep up?

R8VXF

6,788 posts

114 months

Friday 5th February 2016
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GravelBen said:
Please don't drive anywhere near me.
If I do it will be in a hire car, and you know what they say....


Rawwr

22,722 posts

233 months

Friday 5th February 2016
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R8VXF said:
If I do it will be in a hire car, and you know what they say....
...that you're a weirdo?

R8VXF

6,788 posts

114 months

Friday 5th February 2016
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Rawwr said:
R8VXF said:
Anyone in life who is not me is opposition.

On my drive I have a 1.2 petrol, a 2.0 diesel and a 6.2 s/c petrol. The most fun is had in the biggest engine, as I can have the same amount of fun as the less powerful alternatives and push it even further.
I really hope you're not serious but if you are; how do you feel when something quicker disappears off into the distance and you can't keep up?
It doesn't happen wink xx

What on the road these days can realistically keep up with me?

Rawwr

22,722 posts

233 months

Friday 5th February 2016
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R8VXF said:
t doesn't happen wink xx

What on the road these days can realistically keep up with me?
Seriously?

GravelBen

15,652 posts

229 months

Friday 5th February 2016
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jayemm89 said:
I guess there's two questions here - does a car have too much power to be safely drivable... or is it just too fast for our draconian speed limits?
There is also a middle option too - as you say very few cars have too much power to be safely drivable and most cars can exceed the speed limit, but there are also cars which are very driveable but have so much capability that your speed is nearly always dictated by vision and responsibility without approaching the limits of the car.