Am I the only one that doesn't get interest in hot hatches?

Am I the only one that doesn't get interest in hot hatches?

Author
Discussion

irocfan

40,152 posts

189 months

Wednesday 10th February 2016
quotequote all
IIRC though the hatch really is waaaay more popular here than in the rest of mainland Europe and the US so why the difference? OK the US I can understand as their most popular 'car' is a pick-up which seems to fulfill a similar job to the hatch but what about Germany (for example)?

loose cannon

6,028 posts

240 months

Wednesday 10th February 2016
quotequote all
powerstroke said:
A simple RWD with a V8 , nothing wrong with a tiny light simple cheaper car that drives the front wheels and has a revy engine either but they haven't made them since the 90s now they are heavy ,understeer and a loaded up with junk like abs and ESP ...
Yeah the new ones understeer so much more than a late 80's or early 90's hatch laughrofl which ones would they be then go on enlighten us

heebeegeetee

28,590 posts

247 months

Wednesday 10th February 2016
quotequote all
loose cannon said:
powerstroke said:
A simple RWD with a V8 , nothing wrong with a tiny light simple cheaper car that drives the front wheels and has a revy engine either but they haven't made them since the 90s now they are heavy ,understeer and a loaded up with junk like abs and ESP ...
Yeah the new ones understeer so much more than a late 80's or early 90's hatch laughrofl which ones would they be then go on enlighten us
I think when they go on about understeer you can tell they don't know what they are talking about. I'd have liked more understeer from my hot hatches back in the day, their propensity to swap ends was a bit too much at times. smile

Here's a link to what is possibly the best sports car on sale at the moment, and it seems to me that it's got more understeer and less oversteer than a good french hot hatch.

johnwilliams77

8,308 posts

102 months

Wednesday 10th February 2016
quotequote all
heebeegeetee said:
I think when they go on about understeer you can tell they don't know what they are talking about. I'd have liked more understeer from my hot hatches back in the day, their propensity to swap ends was a bit too much at times. smile

Here's a link to what is possibly the best sports car on sale at the moment, and it seems to me that it's got more understeer and less oversteer than a good french hot hatch.
Nice link

Sump

5,484 posts

166 months

Wednesday 10th February 2016
quotequote all
MrBarry123 said:
Sump said:
It's about allowing kids/adults who can'f afford a proper car to go a bit faster without a huge outlay in running costs and purchase cost.
I think you'd have to be ill-informed to assert that the current crop of hot-hatches are not serious pieces of machinery that could spank [probably] 95% of other cars on the road.

Either that or it's because you're jealous as you're now too fat and/or old to look cool in one. biggrin
Yes, fine pieces of machinery. My point still stands.

I'm under 30 I'll have you know laugh

TheJimi

24,860 posts

242 months

Wednesday 10th February 2016
quotequote all
Sump said:
MrBarry123 said:
Sump said:
It's about allowing kids/adults who can'f afford a proper car to go a bit faster without a huge outlay in running costs and purchase cost.
I think you'd have to be ill-informed to assert that the current crop of hot-hatches are not serious pieces of machinery that could spank [probably] 95% of other cars on the road.

Either that or it's because you're jealous as you're now too fat and/or old to look cool in one. biggrin
Yes, fine pieces of machinery. My point still stands.

I'm under 30 I'll have you know laugh
Sorry, but, imo, your point doesn't stand at all.

As an opinion, it's valid, but you're presenting it as a statement of fact, in that, a hot hatch isn't a "proper car".

That's utterly subjective and down to personal opinion.

DavidJG

3,505 posts

131 months

Wednesday 10th February 2016
quotequote all
It's personal preference. The Golf R / A45AMG are great pieces of engineering and are undeniably seriously quick.

I wouldn't have either one though. My personal preference is for something light, fairly high powered, RWD, and a removable roof for enjoying myself. If the handling is 'playful' so much the better smile

There's no 'right' or 'wrong' to not getting hot hatches, it's down to personal choice.

I can't deny that the trend for huge power with trick 4WD is a little concerning though. I had similar thoughts when the Impreza / Misubishi Evos first appeared - do some of these cars put too much power / performance into the hands of potentially inexperienced drivers due to low(ish) cost and accessibility?? Generally speaking, when hot hatches like the Golf Mk4 & Mk5 GTi were available, really big performance came with a really big price tag - so people worked their way up to it slowly, if at all. I'm not sure that this is still the case.


Leins

9,412 posts

147 months

Wednesday 10th February 2016
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Lagerlout said:
I've got some pretty powerful and rare sports cars yet my favourite car is my Fiat 500 Abarth with 300 bhp that weighs in at 900 kg. It's an absolute riot to drive, hangs on like a limpet, revs like a nutter and makes me giggle like a school kid. I'd sell all the other ones before I'd sell my Fiat..!

Love that! smokin Any further details / reader's thread?

ashleyman

6,962 posts

98 months

Wednesday 10th February 2016
quotequote all
You're not the only one who doesn't see the interest. But thats your opinion and doesn't necessarily fit the views of the rest of the population.

I personally am past having a hatchback or hot hatch but I've just ordered myself a new Golf R to replace my Fiesta. Why?

Because my wife wants a smallish easy to drive auto to take to work each day, a total round trip of 13 miles daily. I want a big saloon with big RWD power that I will most likely drive only twice on short trips per week.

It is sensible for us to drive and run one vehicle between us considering I work from home 90% of the time.

The compromise? A sporty hatchback that can be reserved and floaty when the wife is driving and be everything I want it to be when I am driving.

anonymous-user

53 months

Wednesday 10th February 2016
quotequote all
Sump said:
It's about allowing kids/adults who can'f afford a proper car to go a bit faster without a huge outlay in running costs and purchase cost.
Sump's garage;
Aston Martin DB9
BMW M5
Land Rover Range Rover Vogue
Mercedes S500 LWB

Define 'proper car'. I wouldn't be overly bothered with that list myself. Disposable income whilst a factor isn't necessarily the reason some owners buy hot hatches. Harry Metcalfe has a garage full of exotica, but rates and owns (still?) a Clio Trophy. I made the point earlier but a simple Westy offers more in dynamics than most supercars. Anyway, let's not let common sense get in the way of good old fashioned snobbery smile




s m

23,164 posts

202 months

Wednesday 10th February 2016
quotequote all
DavidJG said:
It's personal preference. The Golf R / A45AMG are great pieces of engineering and are undeniably seriously quick.

I wouldn't have either one though. My personal preference is for something light, fairly high powered, RWD, and a removable roof for enjoying myself. If the handling is 'playful' so much the better smile

There's no 'right' or 'wrong' to not getting hot hatches, it's down to personal choice.

I can't deny that the trend for huge power with trick 4WD is a little concerning though. I had similar thoughts when the Impreza / Misubishi Evos first appeared - do some of these cars put too much power / performance into the hands of potentially inexperienced drivers due to low(ish) cost and accessibility?? Generally speaking, when hot hatches like the Golf Mk4 & Mk5 GTi were available, really big performance came with a really big price tag - so people worked their way up to it slowly, if at all. I'm not sure that this is still the case.
Was ever the case.

1989 - small hot hatch - Fiesta XR2i - 105bhp
1989 - 4wd hot hatch - Integrale 16v - 200bhp

About double the power

Present day Fiesta ST ( small hot hatch 180bhp )
Focus RS/Merc 45AMG.... about double the power

Cars just get faster generally

Alex_225

6,233 posts

200 months

Wednesday 10th February 2016
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Galveston said:
....it's just about fun.
This is exactly the point and I think so many people are missing it!!

Hot hatches are fun and not to be taken too seriously. Yes, in more recent times there have been some very serious hot hatches (A45/RS3/RS Focus) but generally they're meant to be a laugh.

Admittedly they do offer an entry point for people into performance cars, be it younger drivers or people who want a change from 'normal' cars.

For some it could be a budget thing, for others it's that they're practical but just look at how many people on here own a lightweight hot hatch purely for the sake of fun!

DavidJG

3,505 posts

131 months

Wednesday 10th February 2016
quotequote all
s m said:
Was ever the case.

1989 - small hot hatch - Fiesta XR2i - 105bhp
1989 - 4wd hot hatch - Integrale 16v - 200bhp

About double the power

Present day Fiesta ST ( small hot hatch 180bhp )
Focus RS/Merc 45AMG.... about double the power

Cars just get faster generally
But do people's driving skills improve to match? The Fiesta ST isn't hard to cope with, but by the time we get to the Golf R we're talking levels of performance that a few years ago required a Ferrari 348 or a 911 Carrera (ignoring limited top speeds of course). The Golf's output is identical to the 348, albeit delivered differently. No doubt the electronics in the Golf make it easier to handle, but they won't defy the laws of physics. At the price point of this car, it puts it firmly in the hands of people who've not even approached that level of performance before...... and I can see that this will end in tears for some drivers.


patmahe

5,744 posts

203 months

Wednesday 10th February 2016
quotequote all
Also is faster always more fun? I'd prefer a car that is fun to drive at legal speeds, like the Swift Sport I posted earlier.

TurboHatchback

4,151 posts

152 months

Wednesday 10th February 2016
quotequote all
DavidJG said:
s m said:
Was ever the case.

1989 - small hot hatch - Fiesta XR2i - 105bhp
1989 - 4wd hot hatch - Integrale 16v - 200bhp

About double the power

Present day Fiesta ST ( small hot hatch 180bhp )
Focus RS/Merc 45AMG.... about double the power

Cars just get faster generally
But do people's driving skills improve to match? The Fiesta ST isn't hard to cope with, but by the time we get to the Golf R we're talking levels of performance that a few years ago required a Ferrari 348 or a 911 Carrera (ignoring limited top speeds of course). The Golf's output is identical to the 348, albeit delivered differently. No doubt the electronics in the Golf make it easier to handle, but they won't defy the laws of physics. At the price point of this car, it puts it firmly in the hands of people who've not even approached that level of performance before...... and I can see that this will end in tears for some drivers.
I really can't see it being a problem (any more than any other car), you just don't need much skill to drive modern cars. Yes these cars are very fast but they also stop very well, are inherently stable and have all sorts of electronics to hold it all together. They're hardly like old 2wd sports/muscle cars with similar power which required respect and skill to drive without ending up in a tree, these modern hatches can be driven at enormous pace even with feet of clay. Any car can go fast enough to fall off a corner or crash into the back of somebody, I don't believe that muppets are any more likely to crash these than they are a 100hp car (though if anyone has accident statistics I am willing to be proved wrong).

SuperchargedVR6

3,138 posts

219 months

Wednesday 10th February 2016
quotequote all
patmahe said:
Also is faster always more fun? I'd prefer a car that is fun to drive at legal speeds, like the Swift Sport I posted earlier.
What is this fun you refer to? 0-30 tests? Driving round corners and roundabouts at the posted limits? I'm pretty sure something faster would be equally 'fun' in those scenarios, if not more so.

I'm sceptical of people who say 'fun at legal speeds'. Do these people nail it off the line and then back off immediately at 30mph? I doubt it. Fun in a car means pushing it to do something 'interesting' and that usually always means breaking a speed limit or driving without due care....




Leins

9,412 posts

147 months

Wednesday 10th February 2016
quotequote all
SuperchargedVR6 said:
What is this fun you refer to? 0-30 tests? Driving round corners and roundabouts at the posted limits? I'm pretty sure something faster would be equally 'fun' in those scenarios, if not more so.

I'm sceptical of people who say 'fun at legal speeds'. Do these people nail it off the line and then back off immediately at 30mph? I doubt it. Fun in a car means pushing it to do something 'interesting' and that usually always means breaking a speed limit or driving without due care....
Back-roads or twisty mountain roads - small, light, agile cars with decent braking performance. No real need to be breaking the speed limits, and on such roads things like hot hatches make an awful lot of sense IMO. Something like an Elise or Caterham probably would too (personally I can't fit in those), but other than that I'm struggling to think of a type of car that is as quick and enjoyable as a decent hot hatch in such an environment

otolith

55,899 posts

203 months

Wednesday 10th February 2016
quotequote all
heebeegeetee said:
Here's a link to what is possibly the best sports car on sale at the moment, and it seems to me that it's got more understeer and less oversteer than a good french hot hatch.
That had better not be Clarkson pretending he can't drive an Elise.

Sump

5,484 posts

166 months

Wednesday 10th February 2016
quotequote all
MrBarry123 said:
Sump said:
It's about allowing kids/adults who can'f afford a proper car to go a bit faster without a huge outlay in running costs and purchase cost.
I think you'd have to be ill-informed to assert that the current crop of hot-hatches are not serious pieces of machinery that could spank [probably] 95% of other cars on the road.

Either that or it's because you're jealous as you're now too fat and/or old to look cool in one. biggrin
Yes, fine pieces of machinery. My point still stands.

I'm under 30 I'll have you know laugh

s m

23,164 posts

202 months

Wednesday 10th February 2016
quotequote all
DavidJG said:
s m said:
Was ever the case.

1989 - small hot hatch - Fiesta XR2i - 105bhp
1989 - 4wd hot hatch - Integrale 16v - 200bhp

About double the power

Present day Fiesta ST ( small hot hatch 180bhp )
Focus RS/Merc 45AMG.... about double the power

Cars just get faster generally
But do people's driving skills improve to match? The Fiesta ST isn't hard to cope with, but by the time we get to the Golf R we're talking levels of performance that a few years ago required a Ferrari 348 or a 911 Carrera (ignoring limited top speeds of course). The Golf's output is identical to the 348, albeit delivered differently. No doubt the electronics in the Golf make it easier to handle, but they won't defy the laws of physics. At the price point of this car, it puts it firmly in the hands of people who've not even approached that level of performance before...... and I can see that this will end in tears for some drivers.
Maybe it's like the old Audi quattro adage...the new hot hatches will be harder to lose control of at the same speeds that you would have achieved in the 1988 ones....but by virtue of their performance, ABS brakes, traction/stability control, if you do 'lose it' you'll be going a considerable margin faster than in an equivalent car of 1989.