Am I the only one that doesn't get interest in hot hatches?

[Devil2575]

DavidJG said:

It's personal preference. The Golf R / A45AMG are great pieces of engineering and are undeniably seriously quick.

I wouldn't have either one though. My personal preference is for something light, fairly high powered, RWD, and a removable roof for enjoying myself. If the handling is 'playful' so much the better

There's no 'right' or 'wrong' to not getting hot hatches, it's down to personal choice.

You can not want a hot hatch yourself but still get why someone else would. I'm actually supprised that everyone doesn't get it. It's really quite simple.

I know a lad with a Focus ST. He could easily afford a flashier car but he needs the practicality. Something "light, fairly high powered, RWD, and a removable roof for enjoying myself" is great but he wouldn't be able to fit all the stuff in he needs to carry around. The key is that he doesn't want to run two cars, because as he put it to me when we dicussed this very issue "The other car just wouldn't get driven so what's the point". He also pointed out that his garage is full of junk and his drive can only fit one car.

I imagine that there are a lot of people in a similar position. Even in two car households, if you have kids the 2nd car still has to have a nod towards practicality.

In a world were for many people cars actually have to fulfill are practical purpose selecting one based purely on enjoyment is not an option for a lot of people. Even if they do have the money perhaps they just don't want to pay to run two cars? Maybe they'd rather run one car that can do everything they need it too but is also fun to drive.

I'm amazed that everyone doesn't get this simple concept. You don't have to agree with someone to understand them.

[s m]

Devil2575 said:

I'm amazed that everyone doesn't get this simple concept. You don't have to agree with someone to understand them.

- it's the internet Devil!

[Hooli]

Alex_225 said:

Hooli said:

Out of your list I've only driven a 205GTi & after all the hype it was the most disappointing car I've ever tried.

I mean I'm not out to change your mind mate am just genuinely intrigued.

What car do you drive at the moment?

Currently a Laguna estate, it was free & worth every penny

I'm more into bikes these days & ride a GSX1400.

If I was to suggest a decent car I'd say a Jag, loved my XJ40 but crashed it

[patmahe]

SuperchargedVR6 said:

patmahe said:

Also is faster always more fun? I'd prefer a car that is fun to drive at legal speeds, like the Swift Sport I posted earlier.

What is this fun you refer to? 0-30 tests? Driving round corners and roundabouts at the posted limits? I'm pretty sure something faster would be equally 'fun' in those scenarios, if not more so.

I'm sceptical of people who say 'fun at legal speeds'. Do these people nail it off the line and then back off immediately at 30mph? I doubt it. Fun in a car means pushing it to do something 'interesting' and that usually always means breaking a speed limit or driving without due care....

Yep I agree, but in the type of cars I'm talking about the threshold where something 'interesting' starts to happen is much lower, meaning you are less likely to be doing licence losing speeds at the time, or indeed travelling at the type of speed where a potential accident becomes inevitable rather than avoidable. Certainly you can break the speed limits in the type of cars I'm talking about, but you won't need to do so as often in order to access the fun on offer.

[Hooli]

patmahe said:

SuperchargedVR6 said:

patmahe said:

Also is faster always more fun? I'd prefer a car that is fun to drive at legal speeds, like the Swift Sport I posted earlier.

What is this fun you refer to? 0-30 tests? Driving round corners and roundabouts at the posted limits? I'm pretty sure something faster would be equally 'fun' in those scenarios, if not more so.

I'm sceptical of people who say 'fun at legal speeds'. Do these people nail it off the line and then back off immediately at 30mph? I doubt it. Fun in a car means pushing it to do something 'interesting' and that usually always means breaking a speed limit or driving without due care....

Yep I agree, but in the type of cars I'm talking about the threshold where something 'interesting' starts to happen is much lower, meaning you are less likely to be doing licence losing speeds at the time, or indeed travelling at the type of speed where a potential accident becomes inevitable rather than avoidable. Certainly you can break the speed limits in the type of cars I'm talking about, but you won't need to do so as often in order to access the fun on offer.

The most fun car I've ever had was a MG Midget. It could only just scrape over 100mph but with RWD, 145 tyres & no weight it was great fun even going slower than normal traffic on an A road.

[heebeegeetee]

otolith said:

heebeegeetee said:

Here's a link to what is possibly the best sports car on sale at the moment, and it seems to me that it's got more understeer and less oversteer than a good french hot hatch.

That had better not be Clarkson pretending he can't drive an Elise.

It's not, it's the Cayman GT4 at the 'ring.

[otolith]

heebeegeetee said:

It's not, it's the Cayman GT4 at the 'ring.

Ah. I should think the apparent balance in a fast lap of a car like that is largely the choice of the driver.

[Alex_225]

Hooli said:

Currently a Laguna estate, it was free & worth every penny

I'm more into bikes these days & ride a GSX1400.

If I was to suggest a decent car I'd say a Jag, loved my XJ40 but crashed it

Aah it's the bike thing that probably explains it, I would imagine you'd be hard pushed to get close to the sheer thrills of riding a fast bike from a car.

Looking at your choice of car, in the Jag I'm guessing it's bikes for speed, car for comfort.

Fair play.

[powerstroke]

loose cannon said:

powerstroke said:

A simple RWD with a V8 , nothing wrong with a tiny light simple cheaper car that drives the front wheels and has a revy engine either but they haven't made them since the 90s now they are heavy ,understeer and a loaded up with junk like abs and ESP ...

Yeah the new ones understeer so much more than a late 80's or early 90's hatch which ones would they be then go on enlighten us

maybe should have said mind numbingly neutral!!
everything I've operated made recently only needs a steering wheel attendant fast but uninvolving safe neutral handling
so you can go at stupid speeds without needing to be able to drive , can you left foot brake or provoke lift off oversteer or have fun and feel involved in these electronic marvels ?

[TameRacingDriver]

Leins said:

Back-roads or twisty mountain roads - small, light, agile cars with decent braking performance. No real need to be breaking the speed limits, and on such roads things like hot hatches make an awful lot of sense IMO. Something like an Elise or Caterham probably would too (personally I can't fit in those), but other than that I'm struggling to think of a type of car that is as quick and enjoyable as a decent hot hatch in such an environment

If you don't need to be breaking the speed limit, then surely all cars are about as quick as each other? (not withstanding width, visibility etc).

Though to be honest, I've had a couple of MX5s which were pushing, if they were lucky, 120 bhp - 1.8 litres, claimed 130 bhp, but I reckon a 120 bhp Saxo would have pulled its pants down.... so that is to say, fairly slow, but if you drove it with intent, you were still WAY over the speed limit.

So yeah, what is this "real world" that people refer to when pushing their cars but staying under the limit?

[Hudson]

Devil2575 said:

I'm amazed that everyone doesn't get this simple concept. You don't have to agree with someone to understand them.

Woah woah you can't just come in here with that sort of logic

[loose cannon]

I drive a Megane Rs not a Mercedes it's quite capable of lift off oversteer and left foot braking and the esp switches off if required, I' have owned lots of 80's and 90's hot hatches over the years also had a 172 and 182 I'm 40 odd sorry but as much as I would love another r5 gt turbo or similar I don't have the space and I certainly wouldn't want one as a daily driver, obviously I'm just a steering wheel attendant where as your a driving God obviously

Edited by loose cannon on Wednesday 10th February 14:53

[Leins]

TameRacingDriver said:

If you don't need to be breaking the speed limit, then surely all cars are about as quick as each other? (not withstanding width, visibility etc).

Though to be honest, I've had a couple of MX5s which were pushing, if they were lucky, 120 bhp - 1.8 litres, claimed 130 bhp, but I reckon a 120 bhp Saxo would have pulled its pants down.... so that is to say, fairly slow, but if you drove it with intent, you were still WAY over the speed limit.

So yeah, what is this "real world" that people refer to when pushing their cars but staying under the limit?

On a dual-carriageway or sweeping A-road I agree, but not on a twisty backroad where all the other factors come into play - size, weight, braking, engine, cornering grip, etc.

[Ecosseven]

I like hot hatches but given the extreme performance they offer these days I find that a good warm hatch is all I need - considerably less money, better ride, lower insurance, cheaper tyres, etc but still plenty fast enough on the public road. My 180PS Leon is significantly quicker than my old 1.6 205 GTI and is only fractionally slower than a Mk5 Golf GTI.

[Devil2575]

Hudson said:

Devil2575 said:

I'm amazed that everyone doesn't get this simple concept. You don't have to agree with someone to understand them.

Woah woah you can't just come in here with that sort of logic

This whole thread is a bit like

"I just don't get why people like sausages? I mean steak is so much nicer, why does anyone buy sausages?"

[white_goodman]

irocfan said:

IIRC though the hatch really is waaaay more popular here than in the rest of mainland Europe and the US so why the difference? OK the US I can understand as their most popular 'car' is a pick-up which seems to fulfill a similar job to the hatch but what about Germany (for example)?

Are you saying that Germans don't buy Polos and Golfs? Is the Jetta more popular than the Golf in Germany too? I never really understood this phenomenon, as I love the practicality of a decent hatch. The explanation that made the most sense to me was that with a saloon in hot or cold climates, you're not letting in hot/cold air if you need to put/get something out of the boot. This is still an issue with SUVs though and these are still really popular in Germany and North America.

[TheJimi]

Devil2575 said:

Hudson said:

Devil2575 said:

I'm amazed that everyone doesn't get this simple concept. You don't have to agree with someone to understand them.

Woah woah you can't just come in here with that sort of logic

This whole thread is a bit like

"I just don't get why people like sausages? I mean steak is so much nicer, why does anyone buy sausages?"

That's huge swathes of PH in a nutshell for me.

The inability of people to accept the personal choices of others is staggering on here.

[heebeegeetee]

TheJimi said:

That's huge swathes of PH in a nutshell for me.

The inability of people to accept the personal choices of others is staggering on here.

You're missing the point though. Expressing an opinion is fine, it's the justifications for the opinions that can be rather hilarious.

See the OP for example: "I don't get hot hatches, why don't people buy a Jag XF or a TT instead.

"Errrrrr...... "

[SuperchargedVR6]

Hooli said:

patmahe said:

SuperchargedVR6 said:

patmahe said:

Also is faster always more fun? I'd prefer a car that is fun to drive at legal speeds, like the Swift Sport I posted earlier.

What is this fun you refer to? 0-30 tests? Driving round corners and roundabouts at the posted limits? I'm pretty sure something faster would be equally 'fun' in those scenarios, if not more so.

I'm sceptical of people who say 'fun at legal speeds'. Do these people nail it off the line and then back off immediately at 30mph? I doubt it. Fun in a car means pushing it to do something 'interesting' and that usually always means breaking a speed limit or driving without due care....

Yep I agree, but in the type of cars I'm talking about the threshold where something 'interesting' starts to happen is much lower, meaning you are less likely to be doing licence losing speeds at the time, or indeed travelling at the type of speed where a potential accident becomes inevitable rather than avoidable. Certainly you can break the speed limits in the type of cars I'm talking about, but you won't need to do so as often in order to access the fun on offer.

The most fun car I've ever had was a MG Midget. It could only just scrape over 100mph but with RWD, 145 tyres & no weight it was great fun even going slower than normal traffic on an A road.

I supposed fun is subjective. All I've ever experienced to date in low powered, skinny rubbered cars is under steer and irritatingly sluggish acceleration! Is this what you mean by fun? Breaking traction / losing grip easily?

[Joratk]

It's not that we refuse to accept other people may have different tastes or preferences when it comes to cars, we are just arguing our side by stating we don't get the hype around hot hatches, and you are simply arguing your side that you do get the hype around hot hatches.

How is THAT a difficult concept to understand?

You do realise by saying "how is it difficult to accept others have different opinions" (ie. wanting us to be accepting of others' opinions regarding hot hatches) is entirely hypocritical, as by stating that you are infact not accepting that we have a different opinion.

How very boring this forum would be if I closed the thread after the first "hot hatches are good" reply and simply refused to entertain any more discussion or debate!

Why can't we just have a discussion without trying to get the opposing party to admit to sympathising with our opinions?