Am I the only one that doesn't get interest in hot hatches?

[SuperchargedVR6]

Joratk said:

It's not that we refuse to accept other people may have different tastes or preferences when it comes to cars, we are just arguing our side by stating we don't get the hype around hot hatches, and you are simply arguing your side that you do get the hype around hot hatches.

How is THAT a difficult concept to understand?

You do realise by saying "how is it difficult to accept others have different opinions" (ie. wanting us to be accepting of others' opinions regarding hot hatches) is entirely hypocritical, as by stating that you are infact not accepting that we have a different opinion.

How very boring this forum would be if I closed the thread after the first "hot hatches are good" reply and simply refused to entertain any more discussion or debate!

Why can't we just have a discussion without trying to get the opposing party to admit to sympathising with our opinions?

Accepting others have different onions to your own = easy to understand. Accepting others may not agree with others' onions = also easy to understand.

I would consider 9 pages a discussion. What exactly is the aim of your thread? Everyone to agree with you that hot hatches are pointless stupid cars?

[Mr2Mike]

Joratk said:

I understand for some people it is a question of practicality, but why not get a nice saloon such as a Jag XF

I can't understand why you'd want to get a expensive, less practical and diesel powered saloon like an XF rather than a fun petrol engined hatchback?

Edited by Mr2Mike on Wednesday 10th February 18:44

[zedhex]

To the OP:

No you are not alone. I don't like hot hatches, or in fact any FWD car. But then, I'm a grump - I even hate classic Minis.

[Devil2575]

Joratk said:

It's not that we refuse to accept other people may have different tastes or preferences when it comes to cars, we are just arguing our side by stating we don't get the hype around hot hatches, and you are simply arguing your side that you do get the hype around hot hatches.

How is THAT a difficult concept to understand?

That's not a difficult concept to understand.

But that isn't how you started this thread. The title says that you don't understand why there is an interest in hot hatches.

You can argue your case for why you wouldn't choose to buy one yourself, but to say that you don't understabd why some people do is odd. It's actually very obvious to anyone who has even a passing interest in cars.

Joratk said:

You do realise by saying "how is it difficult to accept others have different opinions" (ie. wanting us to be accepting of others' opinions regarding hot hatches) is entirely hypocritical, as by stating that you are infact not accepting that we have a different opinion.

Your opinion is that you don't like hot hatches. Fair enough. I accept that entirely. What I struggle with is that you don't understand why some people like and buy them. This is not your opinion, it is your lack of ability to understand someone elses opinion.

Joratk said:

How very boring this forum would be if I closed the thread after the first "hot hatches are good" reply and simply refused to entertain any more discussion or debate!

Why can't we just have a discussion without trying to get the opposing party to admit to sympathising with our opinions?

It's entirely possible to have a discussion about the reasons why people like certain types of car without basically saying that you don't understand why people don't all think the same as you.

On the last bit, then what is the point of the discussion? Surely the point of a discussion is to try and understand someone elses point of view or to learn something. Otherwise it is just an argument with each side refusing to accept that the other side has valid reasons for holding the view that they do.

I guess the reason this topic has gone the way it has is that it's very obvious to a lot of posters why hot hatches are popular, even if they themselves don't particularly like them. It's pretty much a no brainer.

"Why would anyone like a practical, affordable, car that is cheapish to run but also a hoot to drive? I just don't get it"

[nickfrog]

zedhex said:

No you are not alone. I don't like hot hatches, or in fact any FWD .

At the risk of sounding like a broken record that no one can hear : hot hatches can also be RWD. I also found that the best of them to drive happens to be RWD. So much so that I bought

Edited by nickfrog on Wednesday 10th February 23:07

[SidewaysSi]

I love hot hatches but I hark back to the olden days when they weighted around a tonne, if not less and had no ABS or other niceties. They were sharp, fun and cheap to run.

About 10 years ago I ran a 205 GTI alongside a Caterham. Not once did I feel the Pug was a second class citizen alongside the Seven. Brilliant machine.

RWD is all well and good but I don't think they necessarily make better driver's cars at this level.

I found left foot braking a FWD car with a diff to be particularly satisfying. Fun times

[nickfrog]

I think RWD can make a better drivers car at any level

[ToothbrushMan]

to answer your question....no, youre probably not the only person who doesnt get hot hatches just like i am probably not the only person who doesnt get sporty looking vans or vag cars that fart on every upshift.

[DoubleD]

nickfrog said:

At the risk of sounding like a broken record that no one can hear : hot hatches can also be RWD. I also found that the best of them to drive happens to be RWD. So much so that I bought

Edited by nickfrog on Wednesday 10th February 23:07

I didn't realise that the megane RS275 was rear wheel drive!

[Bibbs]

Devil2575 said:

Joking aside, can you not see how a 2nd hand M3 does not do the same job as a hatchback? Can you fold the rear seats down and load up at B&Q in an M3. Tip run?

Not really. But then I've had issues with a hatch not being long enough for an IKEA run.
Last time I did a tip run I had a fridge/freezer, wouldn't have fitted in a hatch either.

[jonah35]

All internet warriors will state they would rather have a 996 gt3 but, honestly, I'd much rather have a hatchback for daily life.

4seats, practical, don't need to slow for speed bumps, quick enough, not attention seeking, reliable, new nav and new technology and well put together. What's not to like?

Truth be told I'm at the age where I'd prefer a normal BMW 1 series diesel to an Aston db9 - much less hassle

That being said we would all like some pieces of art in the garage or for that one day you decide to track it.

Front wheel drive also suits me more on uk roads but I'm not a driving god

[SidewaysSi]

nickfrog said:

I think RWD can make a better drivers car at any level

All things being equal then yes, I agree. But things are never equal.

I only own rear drive cars at the moment and love them as much as anyone. However, a great front driver can be spectacular and hot hatches can be more unhinged than the usual dour German rear drive offering.

As I said in my post above, my old 205 held as much appeal as my Caterham. It is unlikely I would feel the same about a BMW.

Likewise, Megane R26Rs, Clio Trophies etc are on another level compared to a big engined, heavy BMWs without a diff. They have a level of driver focus and attention to weight saving which is to be applauded.

[SidewaysSi]

DoubleD said:

nickfrog said:

At the risk of sounding like a broken record that no one can hear : hot hatches can also be RWD. I also found that the best of them to drive happens to be RWD. So much so that I bought

Edited by nickfrog on Wednesday 10th February 23:07

I didn't realise that the megane RS275 was rear wheel drive!

Indeed. The Meg has well and truly beaten the 135 is every review I have seen.

[Bibbs]

jonah35 said:

4seats, practical, don't need to slow for speed bumps, quick enough, not attention seeking, reliable, new nav and new technology and well put together. What's not to like?

You can get all that, without needing to have a hatchback.

[heebeegeetee]

SuperchargedVR6 said:

I supposed fun is subjective. All I've ever experienced to date in low powered, skinny rubbered cars is under steer and irritatingly sluggish acceleration! Is this what you mean by fun? Breaking traction / losing grip easily?

This is exactly how I remember my low powered, skinny rubbered car:

Note how the front wheels are pointing ahead in mid-corner, confirmed by barely any lock applied by the drivers hand.

Bloody good fun and genuinely quick on fun roads.

[heebeegeetee]

SidewaysSi said:

I love hot hatches but I hark back to the olden days when they weighted around a tonne, if not less and had no ABS or other niceties. They were sharp, fun and cheap to run.

About 10 years ago I ran a 205 GTI alongside a Caterham. Not once did I feel the Pug was a second class citizen alongside the Seven. Brilliant machine.

I think I made a bigger mistake - when I had my R5 I had a Westfield too. I don't think there was one single aspect in which the Westie was a better drive.

Without a shadow of a doubt, if I had a dream garage there'd be a French hot hatch in it.

[neil-935ql]

heebeegeetee said:

I think I made a bigger mistake - when I had my R5 I had a Westfield too. I don't think there was one single aspect in which the Westie was a better drive.

Without a shadow of a doubt, if I had a dream garage there'd be a French hot hatch in it.

Too true love driving my Megane sport as much as my caterham and my Clio 182 is such good fun never fails to make you smile , my old golf Gti was good but not great like the reanaultsports

[Mr Tidy]

Probably not OP!

I had a MK2 Escort RS2000 then test drove the then current XR3 5 speed as a potential replacement (i came later) but bought a used Capri 2.8i as it had more grunt! (and RWD)!

Many years later I had a Mk1 Golf Gti which was great fun, then a Mk11 16V and a short spell in an XR4i - Sierra was fantastic!

And now my daily is a 325ti Compact which is definitely a hatch and surely the right side or warm, albeit probably not what most were thinking of!

Then again my Z4 Coupe is a hatch and isn't exactly cold either - depends a bit how you define a hatch!

[SidewaysSi]

heebeegeetee said:

SuperchargedVR6 said:

I supposed fun is subjective. All I've ever experienced to date in low powered, skinny rubbered cars is under steer and irritatingly sluggish acceleration! Is this what you mean by fun? Breaking traction / losing grip easily?

This is exactly how I remember my low powered, skinny rubbered car:

Note how the front wheels are pointing ahead in mid-corner, confirmed by barely any lock applied by the drivers hand.

Bloody good fun and genuinely quick on fun roads.

Oh yes, the EVO review of the R5-don't think it did too shabbily!

Some little cars can oversteer very readily. Particularly anything French of a certain age. Or a 30+ year old Mini with 145 section tyres at about 20mph when you are 17 and teaching yourself to LFB...

As an aside, I ran an Integra DC2 R as a daily for 5 years and now have an E36 328i. Once you get past the BMW's amusing ability to power out of every corner slightly sideways, the better driving and more fun machine was the Honda. By miles.

Edited by SidewaysSi on Thursday 11th February 06:40

[bennyboysvuk]

SidewaysSi said:

...when you are 17 and teaching yourself to LFB...

As an aside, I ran an Integra DC2 R as a daily for 5 years and now have an E36 328i. Once you get past the BMW's amusing ability to power out of every corner slightly sideways, the better driving and more fun machine was the Honda. By miles.

This sounds like a description of me in my youth, except I had a Cavalier SRi. I eventually left foot braked it sideways into a kerb, which bent the rear suspension enough to give around 12 degrees positive camber. Without a proper brake-bias valve, I never felt as much in control of a sideways left-foot braked car as I do in a decent RWD car with LSD. For me, lift-off oversteer was always what I was looking for, but often meant that I was travelling into corners faster than was really appropriate for the conditions.

I had a 328 Sport with factory LSD too and it was brilliant, but rusted away before my eyes.