Am I the only one that doesn't get interest in hot hatches?
Discussion
Great thing about hot hatches is that they don't spank you hard when you spank them hard. So you can drive at 10/10ths.
Stick track day tyres on one and go on a trackday and because the drivers don't care if they end up on the roof they become indecently fast and fun.
Interestingly some of the more funky hot hatches have been the smallest ones. I think this is because the best roads are B roads and on one of those a hot hatch is a hoot.
They make you feel young again too.
Stick track day tyres on one and go on a trackday and because the drivers don't care if they end up on the roof they become indecently fast and fun.
Interestingly some of the more funky hot hatches have been the smallest ones. I think this is because the best roads are B roads and on one of those a hot hatch is a hoot.
They make you feel young again too.
I do get hot hatches and I had a few when I was younger but I think they have just become too expensive. Manufacturers now spends so much money chasing ever increasing figures they can brag about that they are starting to become too expensive for the common man. You can get a brand new lotus Elise for the price of a civic tyre r.
EnglishTony said:
Devil2575 said:
EnglishTony said:
However there is still no excuse for a warm hatch.
There is! Insurance premiums 
When I was in my yoof, the car of choice for many was the Nova SR because it was cheap enough to insure.
Crouchydc said:
I do get hot hatches and I had a few when I was younger but I think they have just become too expensive. Manufacturers now spends so much money chasing ever increasing figures they can brag about that they are starting to become too expensive for the common man. You can get a brand new lotus Elise for the price of a civic tyre r.
Though to be fair to the Civic in this comparison, that's a 1.6 Elise with 130 or so bhp versus a 300+ bhp Civic which will be much faster. I'd prefer to drive the Elise, obviously, but at least you are getting something extra for your money here.If anything, I'd say it was the Lotus that was the overpriced one here. Basic Toyota engine out of a shopping kart put into an admittedly bespoke bodyshell.
DiscoColin said:
Price of a fully optioned up Golf R is £47.5k. Boxsters start at £41.7k before options. There is overlap here, thus it isn't about new vs used. It isn't about price. It isn't about driving enjoyment. It is about whether someone can only have one car, needs back seats and isn't concerned about value. That really is the beginning, middle and end at the top end of the hot hatch market IMHO.
This brings me to where the current hot hatch premise completely collapses for me. When they were invented they were about affordable performance in a compact and practical package. Now the average full fat hot hatch can readily have a similar price to a more conventional (purpose built) performance car, be equally big or bigger on the road, no more able to fit into parking spaces, much more expensive to own (I am looking at you Mr Depreciation) and they don't even look much different to the untrained eye to an example of a tepid model in the range with the big wheels option ticked.
I do still 'get' them in principle, but find them a bit pointless these days due to the level of capability of mid-range equivalents and the general tendency of all modern mainstream hatchbacks to insulate the driver from the driving experience. In short, to me the hot hatch of today has become less of a halo model and more of a white elephant
But it was certainly not always thus.....
Does anyone ever fully option a Golf? Does anyone ever buy a base spec Boxster?This brings me to where the current hot hatch premise completely collapses for me. When they were invented they were about affordable performance in a compact and practical package. Now the average full fat hot hatch can readily have a similar price to a more conventional (purpose built) performance car, be equally big or bigger on the road, no more able to fit into parking spaces, much more expensive to own (I am looking at you Mr Depreciation) and they don't even look much different to the untrained eye to an example of a tepid model in the range with the big wheels option ticked.
I do still 'get' them in principle, but find them a bit pointless these days due to the level of capability of mid-range equivalents and the general tendency of all modern mainstream hatchbacks to insulate the driver from the driving experience. In short, to me the hot hatch of today has become less of a halo model and more of a white elephant
But it was certainly not always thus.....
Edited by DiscoColin on Thursday 11th February 18:25
Besides on is the cheapest car Porsche sell and the other is the most money you could spend on a Golf.
When I think of hot hatch I think of Golf GTI, Focus ST, Civic Type-R. Back in the day an Escort Cosworth was technically a hot hatch, as was an Integrale, but in reality they were something more. They were special and you paid a premium for them. I think of the Golf R, Focus RS etc in the same way. These aren't the hot hatches of the range, they are something more.
Compare base spec Focus ST to a base spec boxster and I think you get a better idea of the price differential between a typical hot hatch and a proper sports car.
Devil2575 said:
s m said:
BorkFactor said:
Devil2575 said:
This.
A hatchback is a lot more practical than a saloon car, especially an E46
Tell me about it A hatchback is a lot more practical than a saloon car, especially an E46
Have had a few hot hatches over the years - Fiat Abarth 130TC, 306 XSi and currently Golf VI Gti. Love them! Also have owned a 996 C2 for many years, which I love driving. The Golf and 911 drive completely differently - Golf instant turbo response and darty tied down fwd feel. 911 sounds great once the revs are up, and moves around a little in the 911 way. But both are wonderful to drive, and nice to have a change rather than driving the same feel every day.
Both feel better the harder you drive them. Btw have never bought new as the depreciation here in NZ is savage, would rather have a couple of nice used cars than a very nice new one...and finally I had a Golf VI Tsi 1.4 prior to the Gti and hated it - bought it for daughter to learn to drive in but didn't like the feel of it - geared for economy so DSG into top gear as soon as it could, whereas Gti has much sportier shift calibration and driving feel. Each to their own!
Both feel better the harder you drive them. Btw have never bought new as the depreciation here in NZ is savage, would rather have a couple of nice used cars than a very nice new one...and finally I had a Golf VI Tsi 1.4 prior to the Gti and hated it - bought it for daughter to learn to drive in but didn't like the feel of it - geared for economy so DSG into top gear as soon as it could, whereas Gti has much sportier shift calibration and driving feel. Each to their own!
Joratk said:
..............It applies to all hot hatches really - they are basically just the same as their less sporty counterpart, a Fiesta ST is still just a Ford Fiesta, a Leon Cupra is still just a Seat Leon. Go get a TT or something...
Rubbish, it might apply some some hot hatches, certainly not all.We have two Clio's in the household, same age, similar mileage and both well cared for. The Trophy feels infinitely more special and drives like an entirely different car to the other one. It's just as much fun as the TVR and more fun than the last "nice saloon" I owned.
swanny71 said:
Rubbish, it might apply some some hot hatches, certainly not all.
We have two Clio's in the household, same age, similar mileage and both well cared for. The Trophy feels infinitely more special and drives like an entirely different car to the other one. It's just as much fun as the TVR and more fun than the last "nice saloon" I owned.
Have to agree with him.We have two Clio's in the household, same age, similar mileage and both well cared for. The Trophy feels infinitely more special and drives like an entirely different car to the other one. It's just as much fun as the TVR and more fun than the last "nice saloon" I owned.
It's true when you're properly driving it but there's nothing special to it when just pottering around, save for the absolutely solid ride- it's still just a hatch back.
tgx said:
I had to censor my response due to violation of forum rule #1.
"Do not post material that a reasonable person would find offensive, annoying or upsetting..."
Sorry but dissing the hot hatch is like #$#$#%# in the pool.
I don't get hot hatches personally, but would have to agree 100% with this sentiment. They provide a lot of enjoyment for people who do get them, and that has to be a good thing "Do not post material that a reasonable person would find offensive, annoying or upsetting..."
Sorry but dissing the hot hatch is like #$#$#%# in the pool.
Edited by tgx on Thursday 11th February 21:32
(But I'm sticking with 2 seats, RWD, lots of power, and a floppy roof for my automotive fun)
DavidJG said:
tgx said:
I had to censor my response due to violation of forum rule #1.
"Do not post material that a reasonable person would find offensive, annoying or upsetting..."
Sorry but dissing the hot hatch is like #$#$#%# in the pool.
I don't get hot hatches personally, but would have to agree 100% with this sentiment. They provide a lot of enjoyment for people who do get them, and that has to be a good thing "Do not post material that a reasonable person would find offensive, annoying or upsetting..."
Sorry but dissing the hot hatch is like #$#$#%# in the pool.
Edited by tgx on Thursday 11th February 21:32
(But I'm sticking with 2 seats, RWD, lots of power, and a floppy roof for my automotive fun)
They don't for me either, but i don't hate on them. Renault in particular have blurred the lines.
I celebrate the choice and the achievement of many of them.
Patrick Bateman said:
swanny71 said:
Rubbish, it might apply some some hot hatches, certainly not all.
We have two Clio's in the household, same age, similar mileage and both well cared for. The Trophy feels infinitely more special and drives like an entirely different car to the other one. It's just as much fun as the TVR and more fun than the last "nice saloon" I owned.
Have to agree with him.We have two Clio's in the household, same age, similar mileage and both well cared for. The Trophy feels infinitely more special and drives like an entirely different car to the other one. It's just as much fun as the TVR and more fun than the last "nice saloon" I owned.
It's true when you're properly driving it but there's nothing special to it when just pottering around, save for the absolutely solid ride- it's still just a hatch back.
I do agree slightly in the respect that something like a Porsche (Cayman would be my choice) is likely to superior in terms of handling and performance, it is a car designed to be a sports car from day one instead of a relatively cheap, practical car that has been given a sports model. Having said that, the increase in handling and performance of a modern day hot hatch seems to be progressing far quicker than the increase in performance of for example the new 2016 Boxster, when compared to the latest Leon Cupra. I'd imagine a lot of it comes down to how a lot of people find it to drive FWD cars. I'm only speculating here as I've only ever owned FWD cars but my current car would perhaps serve as a small amount of proof although not a hatch. From what I've read/watched/heard, a Boxster off the line and through the bends has got a fantastic amount grip and is probably going to be a very rewarding drive even if you are a bit clumsy with your feet whereas a hot hatch, maybe not a brand new one with a good diff, is going to take a bit more concentration and perhaps skill to pull away from a stand still without wheel spinning or carry a similar amount of speed through a corner without understeering. I'm not saying it's not possible to match the speed of a small sports car by any means and if you can get your entry speed, position and revs etc all perfect in a hot hatch it would surely be more rewarding? I currently drive a 9-3 estate and with 275bhp going to the front wheels, wheel spin, torque steer and understeer are daily problems I face at not particularly excessive speeds, but on the off chance I manage to get the revs just right, it is very quick. It will hopefully be in the classifieds soon as I am simply fed up with the size of it. 70% of the time it is just me in it, I don't need all that space for a rucksack and also my cousin is getting rid of a Boxster which I'll probably buy. On paper the Saab & Boxster (2007 2.7) aren't too dissimilar off the line but I am positive the Porsche is going to be way easier to drive without really concentrating. If you do have more than one friend (I reckon I've got at least two), it could/will be difficult going places with a Porsche, so on that basis a hot hatch wins straight up with practicality and any trip other than a B road blast or lonely commute and they aren't too big. My conclusion then, would suggest that maybe hot hatches aren't going to be the best fast cars out there when compared to a small sports car but they just make so much sense and you definitely look much less ridiculous in Golf GTI than a boxster!!
The most outrageous part of this whole thread is the fact that an Audi TT has been suggested as viable alternative to either a Porsche or a hot hatch. I genuinely wouldn't want a TT that was given to me. Such a bad example of a sports car.
The most outrageous part of this whole thread is the fact that an Audi TT has been suggested as viable alternative to either a Porsche or a hot hatch. I genuinely wouldn't want a TT that was given to me. Such a bad example of a sports car.
Edited by alexfrog on Friday 12th February 10:55
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