Am I the only one that doesn't get interest in hot hatches?

[Mr2Mike]

skyrover said:

"Hot" hatches do absolutely nothing for me.

I don't like FWD
I don't like transverse engines
I don't like little blob shaped car bodies
I don't like inline 4 cylinder engines
I don't like turbo lag

Because obviously all hot hatches have 4 cylinder engines with laggy turbochargers, but no old man carsRWD saloons have ever been fitted with 4 cylinder engines or turbochargers.

LewisR said:

I already had this rant against hot hatches almost 4 years ago.

And having read the thread you were also unable to make a valid point back then. Quite amazing that not everyone though an E39 M5 was a completely viable alternative to a hot hatch

LewisR said:

I really couldn't and still can't see the point of them. They're just fast shopping cars with the engine in the wrong way, driving the wrong wheels with bodyshell with a big hole in the back, making it noisy and flimsy.

Which is fine since no one is forcing you to drive one. Personally I would hate to drive an old man 3 box saloon, especially one with the prodigious thirst and running costs of an M5.

Edited by Mr2Mike on Friday 12th February 11:03

[Patrick Bateman]

swanny71 said:

Have you ever driven your Trophy back to back with a bog standard Clio? The fact that it's a small, light hatchback adds to the fun.

No but what makes the Trophy special when you're just pottering around? To me, the things that make it special are only apparent when you're thrashing it.

The rest of the time it's still a French hatchback with a cheap interior and an awkward driving position. If it was a 1.2 it'd still be a small, light hatchback to potter around in and feel much the same, save for a more compliant ride.

Don't get me wrong, I love it, but it can't compete for being 'special' in general driving.

I test drove a 986 Boxster S a couple of years ago, only for 15 minutes or so and not remotely hard but even then, just having the roof down and a lovely flat-6 directly behind you adds so much more to the experience.

[mnx42]

I am 51 and currently drive a MY13 Swift Sport. I have had nothing but Hot/Warm Hatches since I was 21 years old, so I totally get them. However, I understand they may not be to everyone's taste and some people may prefer another type of vehicle. If I was lucky enough to win £Millions on the Lottery sure I'd have some exotica, but also the humble Hot Hatch would be in my garage too (in fact more than one would be).

[swanny71]

Patrick Bateman said:

No but what makes the Trophy special when you're just pottering around? To me, the things that make it special are only apparent when you're thrashing it.

The rest of the time it's still a French hatchback with a cheap interior and an awkward driving position. If it was a 1.2 it'd still be a small, light hatchback to potter around in and feel much the same, save for a more compliant ride.

Don't get me wrong, I love it, but it can't compete for being 'special' in general driving.

I test drove a 986 Boxster S a couple of years ago, only for 15 minutes or so and not remotely hard but even then, just having the roof down and a lovely flat-6 directly behind you adds so much more to the experience.

Just have to agree to disagree I guess?
Still feels special after 9 months of ownership, maybe this will diminish but I doubt it. The 130i is not being used at the moment (Xenon issues) so the Trophy is in daily use and I now look forward to the 4am, 150 mile drive to work on Mondays.
Even after a rare (given the weather) blast in the TVR it feels special.

[LewisR]

Mr2Mike said:

skyrover said:

"Hot" hatches do absolutely nothing for me.

I don't like FWD
I don't like transverse engines
I don't like little blob shaped car bodies
I don't like inline 4 cylinder engines
I don't like turbo lag

Because obviously all hot hatches have 4 cylinder engines with laggy turbochargers, but no old man carsRWD saloons have ever been fitted with 4 cylinder engines or turbochargers.

LewisR said:

I already had this rant against hot hatches almost 4 years ago.

And having read the thread you were also unable to make a valid point back then. Quite amazing that not everyone though an E39 M5 was a completely viable alternative to a hot hatch

LewisR said:

I really couldn't and still can't see the point of them. They're just fast shopping cars with the engine in the wrong way, driving the wrong wheels with bodyshell with a big hole in the back, making it noisy and flimsy.

Which is fine since no one is forcing you to drive one. Personally I would hate to drive an old man 3 box saloon, especially one with the prodigious thirst and running costs of an M5.

Edited by Mr2Mike on Friday 12th February 11:03

The points that I made were valid, in that I convinced myself to go out and by one almost 4 years ago, which I still have today. It hasn't skinted me, it HAS gone up in value by about £2500, I've taken it down to the South of France, where the refinement and luxuriousness make higher priorities than going round a country lane a bit quicker, even if a Clio-thing could.

Odd that you describe a saloon with a 400bhp 32-valve, 5-litre V8 as "an old man 3 box saloon". My dad has a... 4 cylinder, transverse-engined, FWD hatchback.

[CABC]

mnx42 said:

I am 51 and currently drive a MY13 Swift Sport. I have had nothing but Hot/Warm Hatches since I was 21 years old, so I totally get them. However, I understand they may not be to everyone's taste and some people may prefer another type of vehicle. If I was lucky enough to win £Millions on the Lottery sure I'd have some exotica, but also the humble Hot Hatch would be in my garage too (in fact more than one would be).

i totally get the SSS. The innocence of the original hot hatch at a good price. Plenty of smiles in that car.
but with hottest hot hatches costing circa 30k i choose to look elsewhere, to more focused options.

[8potdave]

I 'get them' yes. My little car ambition is to tick as many boxes as possible (RWD, Convertible, Turbo, etc.) so a few years ago I bought a Clio 172. It was a bit tatty and probably not a good example, but a real hoot to drive. In fact it completely brought out the hooligan in me! Sharp handling, simplistic interior, plenty of grunt, etc. The thing is I didn't spend a lot of money on it, so my dilemma would be if I had 10 or 20K to spend, would it go there. I very much doubt it.

[Leins]

LewisR said:

The points that I made were valid, in that I convinced myself to go out and by one almost 4 years ago, which I still have today. It hasn't skinted me, it HAS gone up in value by about £2500, I've taken it down to the South of France, where the refinement and luxuriousness make higher priorities than going round a country lane a bit quicker, even if a Clio-thing could

But how is any of that relevant to hot hatches? You just seem to be saying that the M5 suits you better for your particular requirements. I love M5s, but in a number of driving environments they are not as enjoyable as a good HH IME, where the size and weight does blunt the experience ultimately

[Patrick Bateman]

swanny71 said:

Just have to agree to disagree I guess?
Still feels special after 9 months of ownership, maybe this will diminish but I doubt it. The 130i is not being used at the moment (Xenon issues) so the Trophy is in daily use and I now look forward to the 4am, 150 mile drive to work on Mondays.
Even after a rare (given the weather) blast in the TVR it feels special.

Genuinely curious as to what you find special about it when it's not being driven hard?

[skyrover]

Mr2Mike said:

Personally I would hate to drive an old man 3 box saloon, especially one with the prodigious thirst and running costs of an M5

Wouldn't buy an M5 myself, but there is nothing "old man" about a saloon or coupe.

My first car was a Vauxhall Omega and it taught me the joys of RWD.

[Devil2575]

Leins said:

Devil2575 said:

E46 hatch?

You mean a BMW Compact. Yes technically it was given the E46 tag but it isn't really a hatchback version of the 3 series. For example, compare the hatchback and saloon versions of the Mondeo, the same car just with a slightly different back end.

[Devil2575]

Patrick Bateman said:

No but what makes the Trophy special when you're just pottering around? To me, the things that make it special are only apparent when you're thrashing it.

Does a car need to feel special when you're ust pottering around? Ultimately most cars are bought with a practical purpose in mind. Isn't the idea of a hot hatch that when you just want to go to the shops or do the day to day stuff it does it with ease and no fuss. You can let your mum drive it and she'll be able to jump in and do what she needs without any problems. Then when you want to go for a blast it can make the hairs on the back of your neck stand up and get your pulse racing.

I'm not really sure what you mean by special either? How many cars do feel special just pottering around? Aside from cars that are expensive to run and/or too impractical for most people. Even then I suspect that in many mundane situations a small hatch back is probably a lot better than many cars that feel special.

[Patrick Bateman]

Devil2575 said:

Does a car need to feel special when you're ust pottering around? Ultimately most cars are bought with a practical purpose in mind. Isn't the idea of a hot hatch that when you just want to go to the shops or do the day to day stuff it does it with ease and no fuss. You can let your mum drive it and she'll be able to jump in and do what she needs without any problems. Then when you want to go for a blast it can make the hairs on the back of your neck stand up and get your pulse racing.

I'm not really sure what you mean by special either? How many cars do feel special just pottering around? Aside from cars that are expensive to run and/or too impractical for most people. Even then I suspect that in many mundane situations a small hatch back is probably a lot better than many cars that feel special.

swanny71 said:

Rubbish, it might apply some some hot hatches, certainly not all.

We have two Clio's in the household, same age, similar mileage and both well cared for. The Trophy feels infinitely more special and drives like an entirely different car to the other one. It's just as much fun as the TVR and more fun than the last "nice saloon" I owned.

[Devil2575]

And? I was asking you.

[Patrick Bateman]

That's my exact point, I'm not saying a car needs to feel special when pottering around. A hot hatch doesn't, even a Trophy, hence my surprise at the above.

[Devil2575]

Unless you drive something that is insanely noisy or "look at me" shouty then the only things that I can imagine that makes people feel special are a car that is expensive so lets other people know how well off you are or a car that you have always wanted so every time you're in it you remember that you finally own one.

[Patrick Bateman]

Devil2575 said:

Unless you drive something that is insanely noisy or "look at me" shouty then the only things that I can imagine that makes people feel special are a car that is expensive so lets other people know how well off you are or a car that you have always wanted so every time you're in it you remember that you finally own one.

Well I mentioned the Boxster above as an example, compared to a typical hatchback.

[LewisR]

Devil2575 said:

Unless you drive something that is insanely noisy or "look at me" shouty then the only things that I can imagine that makes people feel special are a car that is expensive so lets other people know how well off you are or a car that you have always wanted so every time you're in it you remember that you finally own one.

You present a false dichotomy here. A car can make you feel good because of the interior quality, ride comfort and low noise levels. These do not have to be apparent from the outside, nor make some statement on one's wealth. Older luxury cars can be had for a song.

[Devil2575]

Patrick Bateman said:

Devil2575 said:

Unless you drive something that is insanely noisy or "look at me" shouty then the only things that I can imagine that makes people feel special are a car that is expensive so lets other people know how well off you are or a car that you have always wanted so every time you're in it you remember that you finally own one.

Well I mentioned the Boxster above as an example, compared to a typical hatchback.

I'm going to guess that the only thing special about a Boxster when you're plodding around on your way to the shops is that it's got a Porsche badge on the front that says to people "Look at me, I'm doing well". It probably feels a bit less special when you have to leave it at home and take the hatchback to the supermarket because you can't fit your grocieries in the Boxster

[Patrick Bateman]

Devil2575 said:

I'm going to guess that the only thing special about a Boxster when you're plodding around on your way to the shops is that it's got a Porsche badge on the front that says to people "Look at me, I'm doing well". It probably feels a bit less special when you have to leave it at home and take the hatchback to the supermarket because you can't fit your grocieries in the Boxster

I give up.

For what it's worth, a Boxster has plenty of storage space.