Am I the only one that doesn't get interest in hot hatches?
Discussion
LewisR said:
Devil2575 said:
Unless you drive something that is insanely noisy or "look at me" shouty then the only things that I can imagine that makes people feel special are a car that is expensive so lets other people know how well off you are or a car that you have always wanted so every time you're in it you remember that you finally own one.
You present a false dichotomy here. A car can make you feel good because of the interior quality, ride comfort and low noise levels. These do not have to be apparent from the outside, nor make some statement on one's wealth. Older luxury cars can be had for a song.Having double glazing between you and the mouth breathers on the pavement makes you feel very good.
LewisR said:
Devil2575 said:
Unless you drive something that is insanely noisy or "look at me" shouty then the only things that I can imagine that makes people feel special are a car that is expensive so lets other people know how well off you are or a car that you have always wanted so every time you're in it you remember that you finally own one.
You present a false dichotomy here. A car can make you feel good because of the interior quality, ride comfort and low noise levels. These do not have to be apparent from the outside, nor make some statement on one's wealth. Older luxury cars can be had for a song.Patrick Bateman said:
Devil2575 said:
I'm going to guess that the only thing special about a Boxster when you're plodding around on your way to the shops is that it's got a Porsche badge on the front that says to people "Look at me, I'm doing well". It probably feels a bit less special when you have to leave it at home and take the hatchback to the supermarket because you can't fit your grocieries in the Boxster 
I give up.For what it's worth, a Boxster has plenty of storage space.
LewisR said:
The points that I made were valid, in that I convinced myself to go out and by one almost 4 years ago, which I still have today. It hasn't skinted me, it HAS gone up in value by about £2500, I've taken it down to the South of France, where the refinement and luxuriousness make higher priorities than going round a country lane a bit quicker, even if a Clio-thing could.
You see, cruising to the south of France is all very well, but you're cruising past what is possibly the greatest motor car playground in the world - ie, thousand of miles of empty and utterly wonderful roads to blat on. Why didn't you want to drive on those instead?I'd guess those very roads are the ones where the French hot hatches are honed, and also possibly where they do so well in tarmac rallying.
I sort of get the appeal of a 400bhp V8 on one hand, and don't on the other. I mean, what are you going to do with the 400bhp, in all reality? I get that it's a nice car, I don't get wanting a saloon as a weekend car. And yes, I also think it's an old man's car, even though I'm an old man myself who'd far rather have a young man's hot hatch. (Might have to be careful how I say that
)Having said all that, I agree that HH's are a one trick pony, in that the only fun to be had is blatting along a great B road. After that you're still in a passenger car cabin.
I prefer my Boxster which makes a bloody good job of being at least 2 (possibly 3) cars in one and I'd always prefer my weekend car to be a soft-top.
I haven't owned a HH for years, might never again, but definitely if I was fortunate to have the money, space and time to enjoy a great car collection a French hot hatch (with spotlights) would be in the collection. Nowt better for a night time blast back from the pub.
heebeegeetee said:
You see, cruising to the south of France is all very well, but you're cruising past what is possibly the greatest motor car playground in the world - ie, thousand of miles of empty and utterly wonderful roads to blat on. Why didn't you want to drive on those instead?
I'd guess those very roads are the ones where the French hot hatches are honed, and also possibly where they do so well in tarmac rallying.
I sort of get the appeal of a 400bhp V8 on one hand, and don't on the other. I mean, what are you going to do with the 400bhp, in all reality? I get that it's a nice car, I don't get wanting a saloon as a weekend car. And yes, I also think it's an old man's car, even though I'm an old man myself who'd far rather have a young man's hot hatch. (Might have to be careful how I say that )
Having said all that, I agree that HH's are a one trick pony, in that the only fun to be had is blatting along a great B road. After that you're still in a passenger car cabin.
I prefer my Boxster which makes a bloody good job of being at least 2 (possibly 3) cars in one and I'd always prefer my weekend car to be a soft-top.
I haven't owned a HH for years, might never again, but definitely if I was fortunate to have the money, space and time to enjoy a great car collection a French hot hatch (with spotlights) would be in the collection. Nowt better for a night time blast back from the pub.
That's great but where do you put your shopping?I'd guess those very roads are the ones where the French hot hatches are honed, and also possibly where they do so well in tarmac rallying.
I sort of get the appeal of a 400bhp V8 on one hand, and don't on the other. I mean, what are you going to do with the 400bhp, in all reality? I get that it's a nice car, I don't get wanting a saloon as a weekend car. And yes, I also think it's an old man's car, even though I'm an old man myself who'd far rather have a young man's hot hatch. (Might have to be careful how I say that
)Having said all that, I agree that HH's are a one trick pony, in that the only fun to be had is blatting along a great B road. After that you're still in a passenger car cabin.
I prefer my Boxster which makes a bloody good job of being at least 2 (possibly 3) cars in one and I'd always prefer my weekend car to be a soft-top.
I haven't owned a HH for years, might never again, but definitely if I was fortunate to have the money, space and time to enjoy a great car collection a French hot hatch (with spotlights) would be in the collection. Nowt better for a night time blast back from the pub.
Patrick Bateman said:
Genuinely curious as to what you find special about it when it's not being driven hard?
I never actually said it feels special when it's pottering around, but it definitely does compared to the boggo Clio. I guess part of it is the anticipation of what it will do, the seats are lovely, the slightly lumpy/grumpy idle, the engine/exhaust note, the eagerness to get going, the firm but controlled ride?Let's reverse the question - if you had the choice of a Clio Trophy or a 1.2 Extreme like I do and need to get some milk, the shop is 6 miles away. Which would you take and why?
Edited by swanny71 on Friday 12th February 13:33
Devil2575 said:
You mean a BMW Compact. Yes technically it was given the E46 tag but it isn't really a hatchback version of the 3 series. For example, compare the hatchback and saloon versions of the Mondeo, the same car just with a slightly different back end.
But it is a hatchback, and an E46, and a 3-series. Same wheelbase, engines, etc. as the saloon. I'll admit the front- and (obviously) rear-end styling differ, but other than that any variations are pretty subtleThe 325ti is damn good fun too
swanny71 said:
I never actually said it feels special when it's pottering around, but it definitely does compared to the boggo Clio. I guess part of it is the anticipation of what it will do, the seats are lovely, the slightly lumpy/grumpy idle, the engine/exhaust note, the eagerness to get going, the firm but controlled ride?
Let's reverse the question - if you had the choice of a Clio Trophy or a 1.2 Extreme like I do and need to get some milk, the shop is 6 miles away. Which would you take and why?
Depends entirely on the nature of the 6 miles.Let's reverse the question - if you had the choice of a Clio Trophy or a 1.2 Extreme like I do and need to get some milk, the shop is 6 miles away. Which would you take and why?
Edited by swanny71 on Friday 12th February 13:33
Built-up areas? 1.2, no question. Decent driving road? Trophy, no question.
I really do dislike the ride of the Trophy for day to day duties, couldn't have one as an only car. Brilliant when getting thrashed though, although that goes without saying.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Think of an Ford Mondeo hatchback. Now think of a Ford Mondeo Saloon and a Mondeo Estate.Look at them front on and then sit in the front drivers seat, you cannot tell the difference. They are all the same car aside from the boot arrangement.
Mk3 Mondeo Saloon is 4731mm long, same as the hatchback.
E46 Saloon is 4471mm long, the compact is 4262mm long.
The Compact is not simply a hatchback 3 series. It doesn't even look like a 3 series.
The same applied to the E36 compact as well, which IIRC didn't even have E36 rear suspension because it wouldn't fit.
Previous Compact had a different code of E36/5 though to signify those extra changes (rear suspension, interior, etc)
Anyway, I don't agree myself and when sitting in an E46 Compact it feels just like a 3-series to me, but not going to argue it as we're going fairly OT here
In saying all that I would still classify the 325ti as a hot hatch, albeit a slightly more grown-up one ala Golf R / S3 / M135i these days
Anyway, I don't agree myself and when sitting in an E46 Compact it feels just like a 3-series to me, but not going to argue it as we're going fairly OT here
In saying all that I would still classify the 325ti as a hot hatch, albeit a slightly more grown-up one ala Golf R / S3 / M135i these days
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