Am I the only one that doesn't get interest in hot hatches?

[Selmer Mk6]

I think there is a place for hot hatches. Whether they can outrun sports, be faster around a track or drive better is not the point. When I bought my RS265, i did not consider an M3's, Golf R, RS3 etc. I looked at the Golf GTI, Peugeot and the VXR. I was not even thinking about hatchback practicality, as the car can only be bought in coupe form (which maybe about to change).

I suppose if you could afford it you would have two cars, one for day to day stuff and the other for more driving pleasure. This would then to a certain extent make the hot hatch redundant. However, thankfully we do have them. The hatchback is a compromise and some are more compromised than others. it's your choice.

[_neilio_]

Nothing wrong with a hot hatch per se, I think what the OP is trying to convey is how obvious someone's passion for a car is.

You buy a two seater, no roofed, uncompromising car it immediately shows passion. You buy a hatchback that doesn't have any of these drawbacks then the passion isn't obvious (even though it could be there in abundance).

People live in damp Victorian houses that are hard to heat because they just don't like the new build sensible option. Perhaps because it's too clinical.

Sounds strange but there's a large chunk of people who actually like a compromise. I guess the same applies to those who buy a Morgan rather than a brand new TT. The argument just shifts on and on until you get to bikes...

[Patrick Bateman]

skyrover said:

A good driver will know when to use every bit of those 400hp.

In general though it takes a lot of the stress out of driving i.e effortless single carriageway overtakes, less cog swapping on steep hills etc.

Edited by skyrover on Saturday 13th February 08:02

This.

I find people who don't see the appeal or point in having a lot of extra power usually haven't owned a car with it.

It's night and day compared with a hot hatch.

[CABC]

Patrick Bateman said:

This.

I find people who don't see the appeal or point in having a lot of extra power usually haven't owned a car with it.

It's night and day compared with a hot hatch.

there's a lot of fun in a high powered car, and a lot of skill to drive it fast too.
there's also a lot of fun in wringing the neck out of a less powered car, planning, carrying speed and feeling of wot and high revs all the time.

much of the original joy in HH was with the latter 'Italian-style' driving. The latest hyper hatches have moved to GT territory but with hard rides.
simplistic i know, but the HH market is a different proposition now. Hey, choices.

[Johnnytheboy]

Patrick Bateman said:

This.

I find people who don't see the appeal or point in having a lot of extra power usually haven't owned a car with it.

It's night and day compared with a hot hatch.

This. I'd much rather achieve the same results by driving a 350hp car at half its capabilities than ragging the arse of a car with 175hp.

[anonymous-user]

The modern HH (in the main) is neither light on power or weight. That era is long gone yet people still talk about a 4wd 300HP car as a 'cheeky chappy' compared to all these 'overweight barges'

Apart from the 135i they're just clones of each other. 4 cylinder turbocharged, 4wd (more and more), headline 0-60 figures and most importantly the ability to be remapped, for pub bragging rights. I find the Golf R, RS3, A45 as dull as dishwater personally despite remaining deeply impressed with the engineering involved. Give me a DC2, 205GTI, Saxo VTS, Clio 16, Alfasud Ti or Mk1 Golf GTI any day of the week over the current crop of 'practical all rounders' with 'secure handling for our British weather' (copyright PH 2016)

I'll stick with my 'barge', generally with some horrible youth stuck to the back of it looking to impress. My advice is find an old school hatchback and see what all the fuss was about, the modern evolution is no more a HH than Jeremy Corbin is Prime Minister material.

[SidewaysSi]

Johnnytheboy said:

Patrick Bateman said:

This.

I find people who don't see the appeal or point in having a lot of extra power usually haven't owned a car with it.

It's night and day compared with a hot hatch.

This. I'd much rather achieve the same results by driving a 350hp car at half its capabilities than ragging the arse of a car with 175hp.

I wouldn't. Being on or over the limit for more of the time is far more interesting IMO.

[heebeegeetee]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

1. In fact I notice it again, another list of (largely) ingredients. I'm talking about the proof being in the eating, not in the list of ingredients. I've noticed that in the lists of reasons I don't think anyone has acknowledged the element of them being a hoot to drive (certainly in the case of the old school cars) and then still claim to not get them. They seem to not 'get' them due to engine position etc.

Incidentally, I used to find that on road rallies, which I'd suggest is possibly the fastest one will ever actually drive on a public road, a higher seating position was extremely useful, and a low seating position a real hindrance. 911s of old used to break the mould imo with their sit-up driving positions, I felt they knew what they were doing in that regard, but they've since pandered to the market imo.

2. Yes and no. On one hand you're out exercising your 400 bhp on the public road and next the bib are pulling you over. Suddenly you're looking at a lengthy ban or possibly even a spell inside, depending on how many of the 400 horses were being exercised.

On the other hand the computerised awd modern cars do indeed make it easy to exercise the hundreds of horses.

Personally I'd rather exercise a lot less at speeds that are much less anti-social, but that's my choice.

[TameRacingDriver]

TheJimi said:

LewisR said:

Devil2575 said:

Unless you drive something that is insanely noisy or "look at me" shouty then the only things that I can imagine that makes people feel special are a car that is expensive so lets other people know how well off you are or a car that you have always wanted so every time you're in it you remember that you finally own one.

You present a false dichotomy here. A car can make you feel good because of the interior quality, ride comfort and low noise levels. These do not have to be apparent from the outside, nor make some statement on one's wealth. Older luxury cars can be had for a song.

Correct.

Example -

Anytime I drive a Mk2 MR2, it always feels *really* special because of how the dash is designed, along with the high transmission tunnel, and stubby gear stick.

Such cars just engender an almost unquantifiable goodfeelingness that has bugger all to do with value or outward perception.

This is what I tried to say earlier in the thread, but I think you said it better than me.

Exactly why I am done with hot hatches, until you drive them properly they really are nothing special. Most proper sports cars feel special 100% of the time which is exactly what I want from a car.

[otolith]

To be honest, for my tastes I think some of the sports cars which make too much effort to be easy to live with fall into the same trap.

[Patrick Bateman]

SidewaysSi said:

Johnnytheboy said:

Patrick Bateman said:

This.

I find people who don't see the appeal or point in having a lot of extra power usually haven't owned a car with it.

It's night and day compared with a hot hatch.

This. I'd much rather achieve the same results by driving a 350hp car at half its capabilities than ragging the arse of a car with 175hp.

I wouldn't. Being on or over the limit for more of the time is far more interesting IMO.

There's a balance to be had.

I find in road driving, an engine that noticeably requires the upper end of the rev range to really shift, such as the Clio 182 (>5000rpm), has limited opportunities to really be enjoyed. Don't get me wrong, it's great fun, you just feel short-changed unless you do. In my M5 though, the mid-range provides plenty of entertainment as well as wringing it out to 7000rpm so it always provides entertainment.

[heebeegeetee]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

:yawn: Oh gawd, here we go again.

Cmoose, I think we should avoid responding to each other's posts. You remind me of Loon, who had good points to make but like you seemed to be capable of an argument in an empty room. Neither of us seem to agree on anything so how about we leave each other alone, and could you confine your arguments to everyone else, eh?

[heebeegeetee]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I think you're referring to a previous thread, and since then I've been avoiding responding to any or your posts. For me, you spoil many a thread without the need to and I might go so far as to say you're one of those who spoil ph, but that's just my opinion. I mean, I know you are right about the Golf platform thing, but I wasn't going to say so 'cos you'd argue with me. Or there'd be something wrong with my semantics.

[heebeegeetee]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Ah well, I can only ask.

Tbh I've dipped out of ph recently because of you and the few like you, looks like I'll be dipping out again.

I'm done. As you were everyone and back to topic. Apologies for diversion.

[DoubleD]

You two should get a room for some good "make up sex"

[chelme]

Joratk said:

I just can't get turned on by any form of hot hatch at all. I find myself thinking "that's nice, but at £30k there's so much else I could buy". Like why would I waste £30k on a Golf GTI when I could buy a used Boxster/911 (or thousands of other more exciting cars) for less and keep some money in the bank for running costs? Or even buy a 2.0TSI Golf and get 99% of the experience.

I understand for some people it is a question of practicality, but why not get a nice saloon such as a Jag XF (among countless others)? There are also a multitude of young blokes with no dependents that think, say, a Civic Type R is the be all and end all, when at the end of the day it's still just a Civic, with FWD and a 4pot engine...

It applies to all hot hatches really - they are basically just the same as their less sporty counterpart, a Fiesta ST is still just a Ford Fiesta, a Leon Cupra is still just a Seat Leon. Go get a TT or something...

Go drive a Lancia Delta Evolution 2. You'll enlighten yourself.

[SR06]

Joratk said:

I just can't get turned on by any form of hot hatch at all. I find myself thinking "that's nice, but at £30k there's so much else I could buy". Like why would I waste £30k on a Golf GTI when I could buy a used Boxster/911 (or thousands of other more exciting cars) for less and keep some money in the bank for running costs? Or even buy a 2.0TSI Golf and get 99% of the experience.

I understand for some people it is a question of practicality, but why not get a nice saloon such as a Jag XF (among countless others)? There are also a multitude of young blokes with no dependents that think, say, a Civic Type R is the be all and end all, when at the end of the day it's still just a Civic, with FWD and a 4pot engine...

It applies to all hot hatches really - they are basically just the same as their less sporty counterpart, a Fiesta ST is still just a Ford Fiesta, a Leon Cupra is still just a Seat Leon. Go get a TT or something...

I don't find the concept of owning a 15 year old Boxter/911 exciting in the slightest. Especially not the entry level models available now for hatchback money. I'd suggest that people buy these because they think we're all impressed they own a Porsche. However the vast majority of the UKs middle class look at them and think the driver of the 100,000 mile+ Past its Sell-by Porsche is a cheapskate. The age normally hidden by the obligatory B16 [ENTER TRADESMAN NAME HERE] number plate.

These Past-it-Purchases usually occupy the fast lane as they're now King of the Road.

[nickfrog]

SR06 said:

I'd suggest that people buy these because they think we're all impressed they own a Porsche. However the vast majority of the UKs middle class look at them and think the driver of the 100,000 mile+ Past its Sell-by Porsche is a cheapskate.

I think your assumption that other people necessarily buy a car for class belonging expression purposes says more about you. And even if they do : what does it matter to you ?
Have you considered that some people choose their car based on the way they drive, not what social message they convey ?
Stuff like steering feel, power delivery, cog, pmoi etc does matter to some more than stuff you may assume about them.
My track day mate has a 2001 Boxster. It's very crusty. He also drives a £50k car. He doesn't care what you think, he is not insecure.

[anonymous-user]

SR06 said:

I don't find the concept of owning a 15 year old Boxter/911 exciting in the slightest. Especially not the entry level models available now for hatchback money. I'd suggest that people buy these because they think we're all impressed they own a Porsche. However the vast majority of the UKs middle class look at them and think the driver of the 100,000 mile+ Past its Sell-by Porsche is a cheapskate. The age normally hidden by the obligatory B16 [ENTER TRADESMAN NAME HERE] number plate.

These Past-it-Purchases usually occupy the fast lane as they're now King of the Road.

It's usually a case of insecurity, your own maybe?

[Vincefox]

Funny, i've thought about getting an entry level 996 a few times. The one thing i haven't considered when thinking about it is what other people's opinions of me would be, i just like the car.