Am I the only one that doesn't get interest in hot hatches?

[DoubleD]

nickfrog said:

I think your assumption that other people necessarily buy a car for class belonging expression purposes says more about you. And even if they do : what does it matter to you ?
Have you considered that some people choose their car based on the way they drive, not what social message they convey ?
Stuff like steering feel, power delivery, cog, pmoi etc does matter to some more than stuff you may assume about them.
My track day mate has a 2001 Boxster. It's very crusty. He also drives a £50k car. He doesn't care what you think, he is not insecure.

The funny thing is that the above is also the reason that I bought a hot hatch.

[Coolbanana]

For me, a 'hot hatch' is not wholly about practicality or economics: it is about the way they drive. My eldest is at Uni, my youngest in 6th Form and hardly ever needs me to take her anywhere. I work from home, my wife has a car so my car is 95% used by just me. I don't need a large car.

I've had modified saloons (335i with 360bhp), sports cars (Z4M with 343bhp, 911 CS with 385bhp) and large 4x4's for practical use. I've had the use of a 550 bhp muscle car for extended periods (M6).

All great and wonderful in their own way and represent my 'being there, done that' with each.

Now I have, for the first time ever at 46 years of age, a 'hot hatch' seemingly typically driven by much younger folk.

And it is fun! A joy on tight B roads and quick A roads. It is so easy to manoeuvre around town and I'm really enjoying the car.

It'll give my former 911 a good run and that in turn was quicker than an E39 M5, a powerful muscle car not too long ago. Easily modified, it'll take on much more 'exotic' fare too if I was so inclined. And yet, it's just a little 4-pot warmed-up shopping trolley!

Wow! I am having fun driving a shopping trolley that looks just like a bog standard A-to-B small family car and have no regrets at all. I don't find myself hankering after a cosy Jag saloon - I'm too young and active I guess to see the appeal of wafting about in a luxury barge; boring to me.

Powerful muscle cars of the large saloon variety too - "Hey, feel that acceleration down the M40 Motorway! Weeeee!" Nah, it's nice, sure, but my 'hot hatch' is more fun to me as I zip through corners. It'll do quick down the Motorway too if I need it. The M6 zipped through corners - but didn't bring out the teenager in me.

I guess large saloon cars aren't my thing. I get why they are for others, but they are not for me.
Estates? Definitely not for me. Large SUV's? Well, I do like the proper 4x4 versions because I do like to go off-road on occasion and then they feel special to me and their size is acceptable and even preferred by my sense of practicality - even if I don't need it. It's a case of being there if I ever do.

For the present, I'm finding my hot hatch is a joy to own and I 'get' them.

[gizlaroc]

SR06 said:

I don't find the concept of owning a 15 year old Boxter/911 exciting in the slightest. Especially not the entry level models available now for hatchback money. I'd suggest that people buy these because they think we're all impressed they own a Porsche. However the vast majority of the UKs middle class look at them and think the driver of the 100,000 mile+ Past its Sell-by Porsche is a cheapskate. The age normally hidden by the obligatory B16 [ENTER TRADESMAN NAME HERE] number plate.

These Past-it-Purchases usually occupy the fast lane as they're now King of the Road.

Jesus wept.
I feel a bit sorry for you.

[wemorgan]

Don't we all just buy cars that we like and need, which naturally varies person to person. I can't see the need to debate this, after all who's going to be convinced they've made the wrong car purchase after reading this thread?

[longbow]

Coolbanana said:

For me, a 'hot hatch' is not wholly about practicality or economics: it is about the way they drive. My eldest is at Uni, my youngest in 6th Form and hardly ever needs me to take her anywhere. I work from home, my wife has a car so my car is 95% used by just me. I don't need a large car.

I've had modified saloons (335i with 360bhp), sports cars (Z4M with 343bhp, 911 CS with 385bhp) and large 4x4's for practical use. I've had the use of a 550 bhp muscle car for extended periods (M6).

All great and wonderful in their own way and represent my 'being there, done that' with each.

Now I have, for the first time ever at 46 years of age, a 'hot hatch' seemingly typically driven by much younger folk.

And it is fun! A joy on tight B roads and quick A roads. It is so easy to manoeuvre around town and I'm really enjoying the car.

It'll give my former 911 a good run and that in turn was quicker than an E39 M5, a powerful muscle car not too long ago. Easily modified, it'll take on much more 'exotic' fare too if I was so inclined. And yet, it's just a little 4-pot warmed-up shopping trolley!

Wow! I am having fun driving a shopping trolley that looks just like a bog standard A-to-B small family car and have no regrets at all. I don't find myself hankering after a cosy Jag saloon - I'm too young and active I guess to see the appeal of wafting about in a luxury barge; boring to me.

Powerful muscle cars of the large saloon variety too - "Hey, feel that acceleration down the M40 Motorway! Weeeee!" Nah, it's nice, sure, but my 'hot hatch' is more fun to me as I zip through corners. It'll do quick down the Motorway too if I need it. The M6 zipped through corners - but didn't bring out the teenager in me.

I guess large saloon cars aren't my thing. I get why they are for others, but they are not for me.
Estates? Definitely not for me. Large SUV's? Well, I do like the proper 4x4 versions because I do like to go off-road on occasion and then they feel special to me and their size is acceptable and even preferred by my sense of practicality - even if I don't need it. It's a case of being there if I ever do.

For the present, I'm finding my hot hatch is a joy to own and I 'get' them.

Great post - I couldn't agree more. I currently run a 182 Cup as a commuter and I really don't think anything could beat it for the price I paid. And as above, I've had my fair share of quick cars (V8 Cerbera for 10 years and now a 560hp Evo IX). Powerful cars are great fun, but the ability to use all of that power is very limited these days. The Clio on the other hand can be enjoyed on every journey - it's the agility of it, the simplicity of it - it's a car that wears it heart on its sleeve and is just so much FUN. B roads are a blast, wringing out the zingy N/A motor then flick-flacking through the twists often on 3 wheels. The lift off oversteer on demand is quite comical too. The grip that it generates from those skinny 205 section tyres is impressive and the brakes (carbon pads, braided lines etc) have proved to be unburstable on track. Oh yes, it handles track days with ease too. And all for £1800!

Don't get me wrong, it can't cover all bases and in a straight line its more nippy than fast. But when I need to scratch the speed itch I just jump into the Evo and all is well again. My wife loves the little Clio too, she's always trying to nab the keys! I'm so impressed with it that I've just eyeing up my next purchase right now, and it's a 182 Trophy. And I'll be giving the Cup to the Mrs!

[DoubleD]

This argument is going round in circles. The fact is, there is no right or wrong answer.

[SidewaysSi]

longbow said:

Coolbanana said:

For me, a 'hot hatch' is not wholly about practicality or economics: it is about the way they drive. My eldest is at Uni, my youngest in 6th Form and hardly ever needs me to take her anywhere. I work from home, my wife has a car so my car is 95% used by just me. I don't need a large car.

I've had modified saloons (335i with 360bhp), sports cars (Z4M with 343bhp, 911 CS with 385bhp) and large 4x4's for practical use. I've had the use of a 550 bhp muscle car for extended periods (M6).

All great and wonderful in their own way and represent my 'being there, done that' with each.

Now I have, for the first time ever at 46 years of age, a 'hot hatch' seemingly typically driven by much younger folk.

And it is fun! A joy on tight B roads and quick A roads. It is so easy to manoeuvre around town and I'm really enjoying the car.

It'll give my former 911 a good run and that in turn was quicker than an E39 M5, a powerful muscle car not too long ago. Easily modified, it'll take on much more 'exotic' fare too if I was so inclined. And yet, it's just a little 4-pot warmed-up shopping trolley!

Wow! I am having fun driving a shopping trolley that looks just like a bog standard A-to-B small family car and have no regrets at all. I don't find myself hankering after a cosy Jag saloon - I'm too young and active I guess to see the appeal of wafting about in a luxury barge; boring to me.

Powerful muscle cars of the large saloon variety too - "Hey, feel that acceleration down the M40 Motorway! Weeeee!" Nah, it's nice, sure, but my 'hot hatch' is more fun to me as I zip through corners. It'll do quick down the Motorway too if I need it. The M6 zipped through corners - but didn't bring out the teenager in me.

I guess large saloon cars aren't my thing. I get why they are for others, but they are not for me.
Estates? Definitely not for me. Large SUV's? Well, I do like the proper 4x4 versions because I do like to go off-road on occasion and then they feel special to me and their size is acceptable and even preferred by my sense of practicality - even if I don't need it. It's a case of being there if I ever do.

For the present, I'm finding my hot hatch is a joy to own and I 'get' them.

Great post - I couldn't agree more. I currently run a 182 Cup as a commuter and I really don't think anything could beat it for the price I paid. And as above, I've had my fair share of quick cars (V8 Cerbera for 10 years and now a 560hp Evo IX). Powerful cars are great fun, but the ability to use all of that power is very limited these days. The Clio on the other hand can be enjoyed on every journey - it's the agility of it, the simplicity of it - it's a car that wears it heart on its sleeve and is just so much FUN. B roads are a blast, wringing out the zingy N/A motor then flick-flacking through the twists often on 3 wheels. The lift off oversteer on demand is quite comical too. The grip that it generates from those skinny 205 section tyres is impressive and the brakes (carbon pads, braided lines etc) have proved to be unburstable on track. Oh yes, it handles track days with ease too. And all for £1800!

Don't get me wrong, it can't cover all bases and in a straight line its more nippy than fast. But when I need to scratch the speed itch I just jump into the Evo and all is well again. My wife loves the little Clio too, she's always trying to nab the keys! I'm so impressed with it that I've just eyeing up my next purchase right now, and it's a 182 Trophy. And I'll be giving the Cup to the Mrs!

Sounds brilliant. Slightly off topic but my Mrs is learning to drive and I am thinking we will get a Clio 182 or Accord Type R for her. Do Clips wear the miles well as at the £2k level they seem to be driven by boy racers or have big miles? I don't want something that feels too baggy if possible!

[TheJimi]

longbow said:

Great post - I couldn't agree more. I currently run a 182 Cup as a commuter and I really don't think anything could beat it for the price I paid. And as above, I've had my fair share of quick cars (V8 Cerbera for 10 years and now a 560hp Evo IX). Powerful cars are great fun, but the ability to use all of that power is very limited these days. The Clio on the other hand can be enjoyed on every journey - it's the agility of it, the simplicity of it - it's a car that wears it heart on its sleeve and is just so much FUN. B roads are a blast, wringing out the zingy N/A motor then flick-flacking through the twists often on 3 wheels. The lift off oversteer on demand is quite comical too. The grip that it generates from those skinny 205 section tyres is impressive and the brakes (carbon pads, braided lines etc) have proved to be unburstable on track. Oh yes, it handles track days with ease too. And all for £1800!

Don't get me wrong, it can't cover all bases and in a straight line its more nippy than fast. But when I need to scratch the speed itch I just jump into the Evo and all is well again. My wife loves the little Clio too, she's always trying to nab the keys! I'm so impressed with it that I've just eyeing up my next purchase right now, and it's a 182 Trophy. And I'll be giving the Cup to the Mrs!

I suspect that if you didn't have the Cerbera & Evo, the Clio wouldn't get a look in.

Not knocking what you're saying, by the way, but that's what occurred to me.

[egor110]

SidewaysSi said:

Sounds brilliant. Slightly off topic but my Mrs is learning to drive and I am thinking we will get a Clio 182 or Accord Type R for her. Do Clips wear the miles well as at the £2k level they seem to be driven by boy racers or have big miles? I don't want something that feels too baggy if possible!

There's not really much on them to go wrong.

I guess if it's high mileage then the clutch may need replacing ( costs 4-5 hours labour as the subframe needs to be dropped) the suspension may be tired and need refreshing or replacing with coil overs and check when the cambelt and dephaser were last done as that's another £500 job.

Interior wise there very plasticy but in my 172 cup nothings broken, the fabric seat isn't ripped or worn although my airbag light comes on and off at will although sorted itself out for 24 hours when it got mot'd.

To be honest i wouldn't care if it was driven by a boy racer provided the cambelt was done the price was right and the clutch wasn't on its last legs, cosmetically you can get it back to stock.

If you get the proper cup it has no aircon or abs ( makes the cam belt a bit cheaper to change) instead it has less weight , a wider track , thinner glass and is slightly quicker than the 182.

[CABC]

TheJimi said:

longbow said:

Great post - I couldn't agree more. I currently run a 182 Cup as a commuter and I really don't think anything could beat it for the price I paid. And as above, I've had my fair share of quick cars (V8 Cerbera for 10 years and now a 560hp Evo IX). Powerful cars are great fun, but the ability to use all of that power is very limited these days. The Clio on the other hand can be enjoyed on every journey - it's the agility of it, the simplicity of it - it's a car that wears it heart on its sleeve and is just so much FUN. B roads are a blast, wringing out the zingy N/A motor then flick-flacking through the twists often on 3 wheels. The lift off oversteer on demand is quite comical too. The grip that it generates from those skinny 205 section tyres is impressive and the brakes (carbon pads, braided lines etc) have proved to be unburstable on track. Oh yes, it handles track days with ease too. And all for £1800!

Don't get me wrong, it can't cover all bases and in a straight line its more nippy than fast. But when I need to scratch the speed itch I just jump into the Evo and all is well again. My wife loves the little Clio too, she's always trying to nab the keys! I'm so impressed with it that I've just eyeing up my next purchase right now, and it's a 182 Trophy. And I'll be giving the Cup to the Mrs!

I suspect that if you didn't have the Cerbera & Evo, the Clio wouldn't get a look in.

Not knocking what you're saying, by the way, but that's what occurred to me.

this is always the problem with one car, it will fail on some points.
Longbow is free to enjoy the Clio for its best bits because he's liberated by having power elsewhere in his garage.
Someone only having a Clio might cast envious looks on GT style cars, someone driving his dream AM probably misses his earlier fun cars (though many AM owners have both...).
Harry's garage sums it up very well. his Trophy is an absolute star in his fleet. But he's not selling his other stuff.
I suggest variety is the PH dream.

[NJH]

Its a funny thing the whole 'event' thing for a car that makes it special, for some it can start from the moment you eyes set on the car on the drive or when the garage door rolls up. Sadly there are far to many ugly cars these days. The second moment for me is when you turn the key and fire the car up, this reminded me of my old SAAB 900 T16S and the lovely low burble it used to make, like a boat. I never got tired of that sound so it can be done with a hatch or any car really including those with 16v turbo 4 pots like that car from 1985. I think if anything a large number of opinions in this thread can be summed up as cars with character vs cars with none or little character and this is the problem with modern hot hatches discussed in this thread in particular.

[longbow]

CABC said:

TheJimi said:

longbow said:

Great post - I couldn't agree more. I currently run a 182 Cup as a commuter and I really don't think anything could beat it for the price I paid. And as above, I've had my fair share of quick cars (V8 Cerbera for 10 years and now a 560hp Evo IX). Powerful cars are great fun, but the ability to use all of that power is very limited these days. The Clio on the other hand can be enjoyed on every journey - it's the agility of it, the simplicity of it - it's a car that wears it heart on its sleeve and is just so much FUN. B roads are a blast, wringing out the zingy N/A motor then flick-flacking through the twists often on 3 wheels. The lift off oversteer on demand is quite comical too. The grip that it generates from those skinny 205 section tyres is impressive and the brakes (carbon pads, braided lines etc) have proved to be unburstable on track. Oh yes, it handles track days with ease too. And all for £1800!

Don't get me wrong, it can't cover all bases and in a straight line its more nippy than fast. But when I need to scratch the speed itch I just jump into the Evo and all is well again. My wife loves the little Clio too, she's always trying to nab the keys! I'm so impressed with it that I've just eyeing up my next purchase right now, and it's a 182 Trophy. And I'll be giving the Cup to the Mrs!

I suspect that if you didn't have the Cerbera & Evo, the Clio wouldn't get a look in.

Not knocking what you're saying, by the way, but that's what occurred to me.

this is always the problem with one car, it will fail on some points.
Longbow is free to enjoy the Clio for its best bits because he's liberated by having power elsewhere in his garage.
Someone only having a Clio might cast envious looks on GT style cars, someone driving his dream AM probably misses his earlier fun cars (though many AM owners have both...).
Harry's garage sums it up very well. his Trophy is an absolute star in his fleet. But he's not selling his other stuff.
I suggest variety is the PH dream.

Absolutely. Variety really is the spice of life.

[CABC]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

depends on your motives. there are no doubt some who buy for "acquisition", but not everybody. I have a mixed garage that brings me joy and yet less external status as i've divided my budget among several 'lesser' cars. I do it for my own indulgence, not others. I have very focused cars that i can relish when appropriate, but would probably hate at other times. Your choice to bond with one car is fine, and i can truly understand that attachment. A Porsche would probably be my choice for that role too. However, i prefer to enjoy several cars, their foibles and excellence at their intended, narrow, task. Personally, my joy is in the choice. If i'm out for a sunday blast i will not choose the same car as i would to cross europe nor for weekend away in the country.
There are others on here with varied cars from E39s to Caterhams, each one with a role to play.

[Patrick Bateman]

I'm definitely in the more the merrier camp.

[HustleRussell]

I agree with cmoose and I'm grateful to be in the long-termer one or two cars camp.

[HustleRussell]

Oh and I believe hot hatches aren't what they used to be. Capability isn't the problem, feel and excitement is.

[TheJimi]

longbow said:

CABC said:

TheJimi said:

longbow said:

Great post - I couldn't agree more. I currently run a 182 Cup as a commuter and I really don't think anything could beat it for the price I paid. And as above, I've had my fair share of quick cars (V8 Cerbera for 10 years and now a 560hp Evo IX). Powerful cars are great fun, but the ability to use all of that power is very limited these days. The Clio on the other hand can be enjoyed on every journey - it's the agility of it, the simplicity of it - it's a car that wears it heart on its sleeve and is just so much FUN. B roads are a blast, wringing out the zingy N/A motor then flick-flacking through the twists often on 3 wheels. The lift off oversteer on demand is quite comical too. The grip that it generates from those skinny 205 section tyres is impressive and the brakes (carbon pads, braided lines etc) have proved to be unburstable on track. Oh yes, it handles track days with ease too. And all for £1800!

Don't get me wrong, it can't cover all bases and in a straight line its more nippy than fast. But when I need to scratch the speed itch I just jump into the Evo and all is well again. My wife loves the little Clio too, she's always trying to nab the keys! I'm so impressed with it that I've just eyeing up my next purchase right now, and it's a 182 Trophy. And I'll be giving the Cup to the Mrs!

I suspect that if you didn't have the Cerbera & Evo, the Clio wouldn't get a look in.

Not knocking what you're saying, by the way, but that's what occurred to me.

this is always the problem with one car, it will fail on some points.
Longbow is free to enjoy the Clio for its best bits because he's liberated by having power elsewhere in his garage.
Someone only having a Clio might cast envious looks on GT style cars, someone driving his dream AM probably misses his earlier fun cars (though many AM owners have both...).
Harry's garage sums it up very well. his Trophy is an absolute star in his fleet. But he's not selling his other stuff.
I suggest variety is the PH dream.

Absolutely. Variety really is the spice of life.

Longbow, my commentary above doesn't relate to the notion of variety, rather, the idea that the fact you own the Evo & Cerb, means that you can indulge the Clio.

If you didn't have access to the other cars, wouldn't you be less fussed about the Clio? Ditto Harry M. It's just an indulgence, made possible by the access to other, more serious stuff.

[DoubleD]

HustleRussell said:

Oh and I believe hot hatches aren't what they used to be. Capability isn't the problem, feel and excitement is.

Yes but this is a problem for all types of cars not just hot hatches.

[TameRacingDriver]

Would be lovely to have the option of a fleet of cars, but as said most of us have to make do with one, so that's why it needs to be something a bit more special than a hatch.

No doubt about it though, if I could I'd definitely have more than one car (including a hot hatch probably!).

[Ultrafunkula]

TameRacingDriver said:

Would be lovely to have the option of a fleet of cars, but as said most of us have to make do with one, so that's why it needs to be something a bit more special than a hatch.

Actually that's the very reason I would choose a hot hatch.