Am I the only one that doesn't get interest in hot hatches?
Discussion
I am definitely on the multi car camp, partially as I am a big Caterham/Lotus guy so inevitably I needed something else to run alongside.
Initially 2 cars have become 4 and I am looking at a fifth now the missus is learning to drive.
I don't think there is one car that can do it all (everything from entertainkng on a trackday though to being parkable anywhere, carrying people and being cheap to run) . Maybe a 911 if you don't need to carry people but an M3 or hot hatch probably gets closest. However they inevitably will be compromised in some way.
If I could only have one car it would be between a modified old 911, Megane 275 or Lotus of some description.
Initially 2 cars have become 4 and I am looking at a fifth now the missus is learning to drive.
I don't think there is one car that can do it all (everything from entertainkng on a trackday though to being parkable anywhere, carrying people and being cheap to run) . Maybe a 911 if you don't need to carry people but an M3 or hot hatch probably gets closest. However they inevitably will be compromised in some way.
If I could only have one car it would be between a modified old 911, Megane 275 or Lotus of some description.
DoubleD said:
HustleRussell said:
Oh and I believe hot hatches aren't what they used to be. Capability isn't the problem, feel and excitement is.
Yes but this is a problem for all types of cars not just hot hatches.I'm of the school of thought that in terms of driving enjoyment most mainstream cars peaked 15-20 years ago and the aforementioned advances in safety, economy and refinement have been eroding that ever since.
However, if I was incredibly wealthy and not at all interested in cars, I'd probably be sending my driver to the Mercedes dealership for a long wheelbase S-type and I'd consider that the pinnacle.
HustleRussell said:
I'm of the school of thought that in terms of driving enjoyment most mainstream cars peaked 15-20 years ago and the aforementioned advances in safety, economy and refinement have been eroding that ever since.
Yes, and that's the reason. A lot of people on here suggest all progress is great and any other viewpoint is Meldrew-esque.Mainstream car manufacturers have placed their priorities elsewhere to driver involvement, instead meeting demands from H&S, legislation and the infotainment crowd. That said, there are great drivers cars out there, just not cooking models. ....some are hot hatches.
Edited by CABC on Sunday 14th February 19:27
For anyone that may not have already seen this vid, it is well worth watching https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTTI-aMKn60 If, after watching that you still don't 'get' hot hatches then 
longbow said:
For anyone that may not have already seen this vid, it is well worth watching https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTTI-aMKn60 If, after watching that you still don't 'get' hot hatches then
HM, and his garage, is my definition of a petrolhead.He has an Elan. Done.
longbow said:
For anyone that may not have already seen this vid, it is well worth watching https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTTI-aMKn60 If, after watching that you still don't 'get' hot hatches then
I have to admit, I quite fancy a Clio 182 now...I think this thread can be summarised as follows;
a) if you can only have one car, a hot hatch is a great all rounder.
b) other types of car offer a more "visceral" experience..(whatever that means).
c) Modern hot hatches are over-tyred, too complex, very powerful and less "seat of the pants" than the rickety but fun versions you and I grew up with
d) Point C) applies to modern super-saloons, GTs, supercars and coupes as well..
e) hot hatches are FWD so you can't power-slide them around roundabouts...
I think that sums it up fairly well...
HustleRussell said:
Oh and I believe hot hatches aren't what they used to be. Capability isn't the problem, feel and excitement is.
I remember hot hatches of yesteryear being noisy, unrefined, tinny little boxes. Is that what 'excitement' is to you? I'm just interested. No one ever defines what their definition of fun and excitement are. Instead, it's just sweeping 'boring' statements all the time.If some folk on here were in charge of brand X's engineering and marketing departments. I'd love to know what they'd do differently. If it's stripping schitt out, replacing rubber bushes with rose joints, rock hard struts, massive ARBs, less positive caster, more neg camber, torsen diffs, 9000rpm n'asp engines etc etc.... it'd be rejected immediately.
SuperchargedVR6 said:
HustleRussell said:
Oh and I believe hot hatches aren't what they used to be. Capability isn't the problem, feel and excitement is.
I remember hot hatches of yesteryear being noisy, unrefined, tinny little boxes. Is that what 'excitement' is to you? The mainstream hatches are too far removed from this to be of particular interest to me, but some have managed to stick to the original hot hatch ethos, like the Twingo 133 and the old Swift Sport.
But then if I am to have two cars I'd rather have a truly soothing comfortable car and a truly sporty sports car, which is why hot hatches these days don't interest me so much.
HustleRussell said:
SuperchargedVR6 said:
HustleRussell said:
Oh and I believe hot hatches aren't what they used to be. Capability isn't the problem, feel and excitement is.
I remember hot hatches of yesteryear being noisy, unrefined, tinny little boxes. Is that what 'excitement' is to you? The mainstream hatches are too far removed from this to be of particular interest to me, but some have managed to stick to the original hot hatch ethos, like the Twingo 133 and the old Swift Sport.
But then if I am to have two cars I'd rather have a truly soothing comfortable car and a truly sporty sports car, which is why hot hatches these days don't interest me so much.
Put simply, I loved the 205 GTi and found the Golf GTi boring. A short wheelbase twitchy lightweight car is the only setting in which I like FWD; if a car's big and stable then FWD just makes it feel dull in my humble opinion.anonymous said:
[redacted]
Well it's consumers who've shaped cars into what they are now and clearly those who want no frills, low weight, track focussed specials are in a minority.I think there's a certain element of 'rose tinted glasses' going on here. I remember my old Golf GTI 16V and 205 1.9 being amusing chariots back in the early 90s, but now, they feel sooooooo dated and I'm personally glad things have moved on from that. But then again, what were the alternatives back then? Not a lot....which were affordable.
We can either lament the days of basic, no frills engineering and deem everything current to be bland and too mainstream, or we can accept the good things and roll with it. Progress has given us the Focus RS for example, which I don't think is picking up any 'boring' vibes just yet?
It's pretty easy to take current hatch X, sprinkle it with some aftermarket goodies, strip some things out, turn the boost up, fit some huge AP Racing stoppers, fit a half cage, bung some Pilot Sport Cup 2s on it and voila, an 'interesting' hatch is born
This has been a fascinating thread aside from some rather OTT and personal posts against people who love hot hatches and those who don't and even against people who buy old Boxsters for some reason...as someone who has only this week been looking at the prices of Boxster S's, simply because I think they are fantastic cars for the money (and who wouldn't want to own a Porsche at some stage) I have no idea why that diatribe was necessary.
Its interesting that people don't seem able to allow other people to enjoy their choices. If someone doesn't like hot hatches, its up to them....I don't agree, but if we all liked the same stuff, it would be a boring world.
I'd love a Honda S2000 engine hot hatch too. Didn't they actually do something like that in the form of the Honda Civic Mugen? But anyway, emissions are killing off an n/a hatches so pining for something like that is sadly a waste of time now...also, the market really does dictate what the manufacturers produce. Remember the Mk1 R26-R Megane? Renault could sell the UK allocation, largely because it is hard-core. A Golf R however, is basically the sort of car people want in 2016. Hence it has sold like hot cakes.
Just enjoy cars like the Golf R and Megane Trophy whilst you can...soon we will all be in driverless electric mobiles where the max speed anywhere is 70 mph and will wish we had our cars from this era......
Its interesting that people don't seem able to allow other people to enjoy their choices. If someone doesn't like hot hatches, its up to them....I don't agree, but if we all liked the same stuff, it would be a boring world.
I'd love a Honda S2000 engine hot hatch too. Didn't they actually do something like that in the form of the Honda Civic Mugen? But anyway, emissions are killing off an n/a hatches so pining for something like that is sadly a waste of time now...also, the market really does dictate what the manufacturers produce. Remember the Mk1 R26-R Megane? Renault could sell the UK allocation, largely because it is hard-core. A Golf R however, is basically the sort of car people want in 2016. Hence it has sold like hot cakes.
Just enjoy cars like the Golf R and Megane Trophy whilst you can...soon we will all be in driverless electric mobiles where the max speed anywhere is 70 mph and will wish we had our cars from this era......
SuperchargedVR6 said:
We can either lament the days of basic, no frills engineering and deem everything current to be bland and too mainstream, or we can accept the good things and roll with it. Progress has given us the Focus RS for example, which I don't think is picking up any 'boring' vibes just yet?
Progress? The Focus RS is a Mitsubishi Evo from over a decade ago with improved MPG. The performance between the two is actually in favor of the evo!I wouldn't joke about that. I was playing with some numbers a little while back when trying to learn more about safety engineering, the HSE guidance on ALARP and those neat little cost benefit tables you sometimes see. I think I came to the conclusion that if the individuals right to drive a motor car via a simple test and licence system didn't exist today (e.g. hadn't been thought of until now) and someone then tomorrow invented it as a new concept it likely wouldn't be allowed as its too dangerous.
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