Am I the only one that doesn't get interest in hot hatches?

[framerateuk]

OP - have you driven one?

There's a huge difference between a "normal" hatchback and a good hot hatch. The normal Megane is a really boring, wobbly hatchback. while the RenaultSport model is a genuinely exciting place to be both on the road and on a trackday. Being a hatchback it's also absolutely at home on my 80 mile commute where it's quiet and composed on the motorway, but totally changes character when you start to push.

My other car is a Caterham and after driving that for a day, I get in the Megane and it still puts a huge smile on my face.

I don't get Audis, VWs or super saloons with gobloads of of power, but I totally get why other people do, even if they don't do anything for me.

Joratk said:

It applies to all hot hatches really - they are basically just the same as their less sporty counterpart, a Fiesta ST is still just a Ford Fiesta, a Leon Cupra is still just a Seat Leon. Go get a TT or something...

Also, this just makes you sound like a total badge snob. Enjoy your TT

[TheJimi]

My affection for hot hatches is limited by cost.

A hot hatch, for me is a <£10k car - that seems to be my psychological limit of what I'd be prepared to spend. Beyond that, I don't see the point in spending more on a hot hatch when I could buy something more special.

I do totally *get* them though

[fivepointnine]

I have a 350bhp, RWD GT car parked up in my garage, I have a Clio 182 in the driveway. Which one gets drove more? You are right, the Clio. Its just as fast on the B roads, gets 35mpg, and can actually fit in parking spaces.

[Alex_225]

I suppose it comes down to what your scale of reference is.

I've been a hot hatch fan since my first Clio 172 back when I was 21. It offered a proper car, with good performance, fairly cheap to own and run but the biggest factor was fun!! They are an absolute laugh.

Having owned various RenaultSports I would sing the praises of a hot hatch but I moved the goalposts last year and bought an AMG Merc. I got to 33 and wanted more luxury, preferred the grown up image and liked more power. So perhaps with the current range of hot hatches pushing towards the 350bhp+ mark, I kind of shrug because for the price of a current hot hatch I got a 500bhp AMG.

Personally I think I'll always appreciate a hot hatch, they offer genuinely competitive performance, they don't take themselves seriously and they can be hugely engaging.

If I had one drive left and a choice between my CLS63 or my Twingo 133, on the right road the Twingo would get my vote!

[Fire99]

Personally, I'd say I'm growing out of love with hot hatches... Mainly because most seem to look like small MPV's now rather than what I would call a good hot hatch..
Though I thought when the MINI came out in 2002 it wasn't a true Mini but I'll admit the 2002-2006 Cooper S (Supercharged) I like, but later ones look bloated.
The old Clio 172, 182's I thought were good, but as time went on the modern Clio does nothing for me...

Now if the current Renault Twingo (I think it's a hatch ) was released with a genuinely peppy version and its handling was allowed to be less 'safe' then I'd rate that..

I think the Fiesta ST isn't a bad ol stoinker but the 'guppy fish' mouth isn't as pleasant to look at as the earlier 2008-2013 car. But I would certainly rate a hardcore version of the Fiesta (RS anyone) where the new Focus looks just too fat and too much of a 'Hot Hatch that becomes a GT'

I think for me a hot hatch, even with the modern challenges. should be small, nimble and not too complicated.. Few in 2016 meet that need for me


edit - excuse the shocking punctuation..

Edited by Fire99 on Tuesday 9th February 10:54

[xjay1337]

framerateuk said:

Joratk said:

It applies to all hot hatches really - they are basically just the same as their less sporty counterpart, a Fiesta ST is still just a Ford Fiesta, a Leon Cupra is still just a Seat Leon. Go get a TT or something...

Also, this just makes you sound like a total badge snob. Enjoy your TT

Lol
I wonder if he knows a Seat Leon is an Audi TT under neath.
TT hardly being the pinnacle of driving pleasure either.

[fatjon]

Don't want anything my mother would drive even if it has a bigger engine stuffed in.

[TommoAE86]

I'm in support of the OP, something with performance is meant to stir something in you. Compromising on looks (and possibly engine) to get the practically (& economy) but retaining some performance is full retard.
Taking the (reportedly) best handling hatchback as an example, the Megane RS, you'd struggle to get people in the back and even then it's so track focused no one is comfortable, so what's the point in even having the back seats as they are not practical covered in vomit.
And now I'm going to torpedo my argument by saying that if someone offered me an EK9 or 205 GTi 1.9 then I'd jump at it

[MikeyMike]

I can appreciate the appeal but beyond the icons of the breed such as the Escort Coworth, Delta Integrale Evo2, I really don't have much interest in them. I know they can be hugely fun, we have a very tidy and sorted mk2 Fiesta XR2 which is an absolute hoot to drive in a deliciously old-school "traditional" hot hatch way, but modern hatches are pretty far removed from the light-weight revvy 1.6s of the 80s. I have looked at 147GTAs but thats only really because the 156 has taken off price wise so the 147 is the cheapest way into a practical, relatively modern Busso engined Alfa.

I have a family now and I'm in a position where over the next few months im going to have to sell my MR2 and my 5 Series and buy an all rounder, personally I'm more drawn to fast estates than hot hatches. A mint classic Impreza Wagon is my choice for a practical performance car, shame they're pretty hard to come by.

[RobM77]

xjay1337 said:

framerateuk said:

Joratk said:

It applies to all hot hatches really - they are basically just the same as their less sporty counterpart, a Fiesta ST is still just a Ford Fiesta, a Leon Cupra is still just a Seat Leon. Go get a TT or something...

Also, this just makes you sound like a total badge snob. Enjoy your TT

Lol
I wonder if he knows a Seat Leon is an Audi TT under neath.
TT hardly being the pinnacle of driving pleasure either.

That's rather mean, considering that he's correct! I don't understand the badge snobbery comments at all; any hot hatch version of a hatch is that same hatchback with different suspension and engine output. The underlying hatchback would have been designed mainly for economical and safe transport. This is in contrast to a purpose built sports car, which will have had a different design brief from the word go. Acknowelding that isn't badge snobbery, it's engineering awareness. Platform sharing is quite different, where the commonality between two cars is much further up the family tree.

[Alex_225]

TommoAE86 said:

Taking the (reportedly) best handling hatchback as an example, the Megane RS, you'd struggle to get people in the back and even then it's so track focused no one is comfortable....

Although talking of the Megane, isn't that particular model based on the Coupe rather than a hatch.

Ironically it's one of the best 'hot hatches' but in theory it's not a hatch haha.

Thing is by comparison you can still fit a lot more in the boot than you can in an S2000/TT/MX5 etc.

[irocfan]

fivepointnine said:

I have a 350bhp, RWD GT car parked up in my garage, I have a Clio 182 in the driveway. Which one gets drove more? You are right, the Clio. Its just as fast on the B roads, gets 35mpg, and can actually fit in parking spaces.

Meh, I used to have a MGB GT V8 - nippy enough, carried a reasonable amount (obviously not as much as a Clio) and it was so small you could park it anywhere. The added bonus was it sounded brilliant even without a baked-bean can sticking out of the back

LankyLegoHead said:

T
They are fantastic in every way. Where as most other cars have their flaws, I really don't think you can point faults in such a car.

I think you're a little blind here. I can appreciate the advantages of most hot hatches even if they don't do much for me - however one of the major flaws is that they just look.... welllll dull to be honest. A slightly fatter tyre, 3/4" lower and a fatter zorst really doesn't work as a styling upgrade - nor does the whole driven through Halfrauds addenda look, though I'll be honest and say that could be because I'm a grumpy old fart

[framerateuk]

RobM77 said:

That's rather mean, considering that he's correct! I don't understand the badge snobbery comments at all; any hot hatch version of a hatch is that same hatchback with different suspension and engine output. The underlying hatchback would have been designed mainly for economical and safe transport. This is in contrast to a purpose built sports car, which will have had a different design brief from the word go. Acknowelding that isn't badge snobbery, it's engineering awareness. Platform sharing is quite different, where the commonality between two cars is much further up the family tree.

The badge snobbery comes in when he dismisses the Ford and the Seat, and then suggests a TT.

Arguably, the TT isn't really a sports car is it? It's front wheel drive in most forms and based off the Golf platform - since when is that a purpose built sports car?!

Elise, Boxster, MX5 - those are purpose built sports cars.

[nunpuncher]

It's okay to not personally get a certain type of car.

My first car was a hatchback, my second was a hot hatch. A long string of hot hatches then followed as I needed the practicality even at a young age. Eventually a family came along and I moved to a 330 saloon. I absolutely hated the thing. it felt like a barge and I felt like a sales rep in it. I got rid and went for a 2 car garage. Old 4x4 for family/commuting and a Z4M for me time. Again, I just didn't feel right driving it and didn't think it any better than some of the hot hatches i'd had.

I understand why some may like those cars but they are just not for me. Every car has a place.............. apart from those stupid X6 things and the likes, I mean really, a coupe styled 4x4 with no purpose other than being flash).

My name is nunpuncher, and I am a hot hatch man.

[Leins]

I think there's an impression on here that hot hatches are only bought as a compromise, a nod to practicality. In some cases that's true, but in others (e.g. R26R, Mini GP), there are far better options if you want something practical, fast and economical. These cars very often are not used for anything other than enjoyment

In my own case, I found that I actually had more fun on my favourite piece of road in my Mini than I did in my CSL, which was part of he reason I sold it

Only the other day I was chatting to an owner of a Clio RS200, who said he absolutely loved the car and driving it on the local backroads, but then said ultimately he wanted an M3. He didn't seem to believe me when I suggested that it mightn't be as enjoyable to drive as what he has now*, but yet I could kind of tell he was going through the whole "RWD is always better than FWD" thing in his mind


'* I do love M3s btw

[TheJimi]

TommoAE86 said:

I'm in support of the OP, something with performance is meant to stir something in you. Compromising on looks (and possibly engine) to get the practically (& economy) but retaining some performance is full retard.

(sigh)

[Alex_225]

Leins said:

I think there's an impression on here that hot hatches are only bought as a compromise, a nod to practicality. In some cases that's true, but in others (e.g. R26R, Mini GP), there are far better options if you want something practical, fast and economical. These cars very often are not used for anything other than enjoyment

It's an interesting point as it has come across that hot hatches are effectively just fast version of normal cars (which they are) and for that reason they're compromised in terms of performance.

But unless you go for a dedicated sports car (Boxter/MX5/S2000/SLK/911 etc) aren't all fast cars just fast versions of normal cars?

Isn't an M3 'just' a fast version of a 3 Series? A C63 a fast C class? Even an Evo is just a modified version of the Lancer!!

In theory based on this very specific view anything that's non-performance based and then made fast by the likes of M/AMG/VXR/RS/RenaultSport divisions are less pure and less driver focused than sports cars?

[LankyLegoHead]

irocfan said:

I think you're a little blind here. I can appreciate the advantages of most hot hatches even if they don't do much for me - however one of the major flaws is that they just look.... welllll dull to be honest. A slightly fatter tyre, 3/4" lower and a fatter zorst really doesn't work as a styling upgrade - nor does the whole driven through Halfrauds addenda look, though I'll be honest and say that could be because I'm a grumpy old fart

I recently passed up on many choices of hot hatch for a GT86 so not entirely blind, although I've had a MK5 GTI

I like the subtle styling additions. I like that its a bit "Non-descript". It's one of the reasons I'd never own a RS ford. Big stupid bodykits and WOW LOOK AT ME wings don't really do it for me. Just a bit chavvy I guess.

Yes, I realise the irony of that given my choice of car.

[anonymous-user]

Alex_225 said:

It's an interesting point as it has come across that hot hatches are effectively just fast version of normal cars (which they are) and for that reason they're compromised in terms of performance.

But unless you go for a dedicated sports car (Boxter/MX5/S2000/SLK/911 etc) aren't all fast cars just fast versions of normal cars?

Isn't an M3 'just' a fast version of a 3 Series? A C63 a fast C class? Even an Evo is just a modified version of the Lancer!!

In theory based on this very specific view anything that's non-performance based and then made fast by the likes of M/AMG/VXR/RS/RenaultSport divisions are less pure and less driver focused than sports cars?

People can't seem to enjoy a car without worrying about if it's a 'pure' car, I think this is unique to PH tbh. If you want to drive the very definition of a 'sports car' you can do so for about £10K in the shape of a Westy or Caterham.

[RobM77]

Alex_225 said:

Leins said:

I think there's an impression on here that hot hatches are only bought as a compromise, a nod to practicality. In some cases that's true, but in others (e.g. R26R, Mini GP), there are far better options if you want something practical, fast and economical. These cars very often are not used for anything other than enjoyment

It's an interesting point as it has come across that hot hatches are effectively just fast version of normal cars (which they are) and for that reason they're compromised in terms of performance.

But unless you go for a dedicated sports car (Boxter/MX5/S2000/SLK/911 etc) aren't all fast cars just fast versions of normal cars?

Isn't an M3 'just' a fast version of a 3 Series? A C63 a fast C class? Even an Evo is just a modified version of the Lancer!!

In theory based on this very specific view anything that's non-performance based and then made fast by the likes of M/AMG/VXR/RS/RenaultSport divisions are less pure and less driver focused than sports cars?

In theory you're correct, but all that means is that the pure bred sports car has more of an opportunity to drive better, not that it actually will. Whether it does drive better is down to the engineering of the car.