Am I the only one that doesn't get interest in hot hatches?
Discussion
johnxjsc1985 said:
Wonder where my little A3 3.2 Quattro fits in. Not many about and not too much written about them either but it sounds great and it goes ok too.
Good for parts for faster cars :PMore of a GT car than a hot hatch, too heavy and smooth to be a hot hatch but certainly a nice car.
johnwilliams77 said:
I can see the appeal, but they're not particularly comfy and not that economical from my experience.
My V8 5 series would get 25mpg at a constant 75mph where as my old clio sport or type r wouldn't be much better.
I also wouldn't say they're fast anymore, yes, they're quick, but not fast. Fast to me is sub 5 secs to 60 and sub 100 in around 10seconds. (Supercharged exige for example)
All the chav's know what they are so try and race you in their cheaper hot hatches.
Most things can take the shopping. Not really a benefit.
Some handle well but fwd is not really the pinnacle of car balance.
Was your clio sport ok?My V8 5 series would get 25mpg at a constant 75mph where as my old clio sport or type r wouldn't be much better.
I also wouldn't say they're fast anymore, yes, they're quick, but not fast. Fast to me is sub 5 secs to 60 and sub 100 in around 10seconds. (Supercharged exige for example)
All the chav's know what they are so try and race you in their cheaper hot hatches.
Most things can take the shopping. Not really a benefit.
Some handle well but fwd is not really the pinnacle of car balance.
I get 33mpg doing a mile and a half to work, so you claiming you only got around 25 on a run is strange.
Love a bit of hot hatchery. If you live in a crowded area that has a few B roads on the outskirts for occasional fun, they're ideal.
I love the effortless wafting of grunty saloons but sitting them in traffic jams for 90 mins every day clobbers the fuel economy, and they're not the easiest of things to park in titchy multi-story carpark spaces. Sports cars and 911s etc are nice too, but I wouldn't feel comfortable leaving them parked on the street in unfamiliar places.
Horses for courses. Hot hatches do enough good things for enough people to make them an obvious choice.
I love the effortless wafting of grunty saloons but sitting them in traffic jams for 90 mins every day clobbers the fuel economy, and they're not the easiest of things to park in titchy multi-story carpark spaces. Sports cars and 911s etc are nice too, but I wouldn't feel comfortable leaving them parked on the street in unfamiliar places.
Horses for courses. Hot hatches do enough good things for enough people to make them an obvious choice.
xjay1337 said:
BMW M3, arguably the rest RWD saloon, is based on a 3 series.
Fiesta ST, is a wonderful car, based on a normal fiesta...
Aside from a purpose built sports car, being what... like a Caterham?
Especially when the OP in this case suggested an Audi TT be a sports car. When the original Mk1 TT was half Golf Mk4, arguably the worst handling Golf, and the Mk2 is based on the Golf..Leon...Octavia... etc. :-)
I fully understand the TT would be better to drive than the Seat Leon but only because of chassis stiffness. They all come with the same engines aside from the TTRS which again let's face it, is lovely but hardly a thoroughbred.
We had a TT before the S3 and it was not even close to being as good to drive as my LCR, even my old 306 GTI6 I ran as a daily alongside my track car used to comfortably follow it along a twisty road Fiesta ST, is a wonderful car, based on a normal fiesta...
Aside from a purpose built sports car, being what... like a Caterham?
Especially when the OP in this case suggested an Audi TT be a sports car. When the original Mk1 TT was half Golf Mk4, arguably the worst handling Golf, and the Mk2 is based on the Golf..Leon...Octavia... etc. :-)
I fully understand the TT would be better to drive than the Seat Leon but only because of chassis stiffness. They all come with the same engines aside from the TTRS which again let's face it, is lovely but hardly a thoroughbred.
irocfan said:
Devil2575 said:
Even if we ignore the obvious issue of practicallity etc, you're talking about price point to buy.
Yes for £30k you can get a Golf GTI or a used Porsche. Do you think the two cars have comparable running costs?
no - taken over the course of many years a 911 may well end up being cheaper than a GTiYes for £30k you can get a Golf GTI or a used Porsche. Do you think the two cars have comparable running costs?
Based on what? The low price of Porsche spare parts? The supreme reliability of Porsche compared to other brands?
A new GTI is going to be in warranty to start with whereas a used Porsche for 30k may well not be. Don't Porsche only offer a 2 year warranty as well?
It's also not like they are depreciation proof either and that the GTI is worthless after 10 years.
I think the old "My expensive sports car is cheaper to run than your family hatchback" line is a perfect example of man maths and only exists in people's heads.
I'm sure it's possible to spend less on a 911 than a GTI over the long term but I'd be prepared to place a wager that it isn't the norm.
Hooli said:
I'm with you OP, a slightly quicker dull car is still a dull car.
That's quite a statement when you look at the likes of a Focus RS, 500 Abarth, Megane 275, 205 GTi, Golf GTi, Megane R26.R, Golf R, Lupo GTi..............Generally the base models may be deemed as 'dull' or average but none of the above models would be deemed by petrolheads to be dull!!!
That is slightly baffling as most genuine petrol heads would deem a focused drivers car no matter it's derivatives to be good fun to drive.
It comes across (and I may be wrong) like either snobbery or that people have never driven these types of cars.
unpc said:
I used to love a hot hatch and had many but I feel I'm too old for them now.
Years ago, in the 90s, my mum was invited to the opening of the local Vauxhall dealer's new showroom. There was free food etc on offer so she asked me if I wanted to go as well. I drove us both there in my Peugeot 1.9 Gti and parked outside. The invited celebrity was Stirling Moss and when he saw my car he was over like a shot telling me about his 205Gti .....chatted for 15 minutes about 205s - he was an OAP by then but obviously still enjoyed a hot hatchloose cannon said:
i understand people not wanting a hot hatch due to the image etc but anyone who thinks a hot hatch is just as dear to run as a big engined sallon or a premium sports car like a Porsche must either be deluded or simply only do about 4,000 miles a year 
Mixed driving from a 1.6 (I get over 20MPG in my RS4):
Costs a fair bit in maintenance too, but it's worth it to me
Alex_225 said:
Hooli said:
I'm with you OP, a slightly quicker dull car is still a dull car.
That's quite a statement when you look at the likes of a Focus RS, 500 Abarth, Megane 275, 205 GTi, Golf GTi, Megane R26.R, Golf R, Lupo GTi..............Generally the base models may be deemed as 'dull' or average but none of the above models would be deemed by petrolheads to be dull!!!
That is slightly baffling as most genuine petrol heads would deem a focused drivers car no matter it's derivatives to be good fun to drive.
It comes across (and I may be wrong) like either snobbery or that people have never driven these types of cars.
It's not badge snobbery. You're getting caught up on the examples I used. Replace TT with GT86, does that work better?
My argument is there are simply more enjoyable cars for the crazy money hot hatches now cost - look at the A45 AMG for example!
People are always trying to make their hot hatches sound more appealing than they actually are, like they're some sort of salesman/advocate for hot hatches, when in reality they are just flat out not as special as lots of other sports coupes etc at the exact same price point - used or new!
I like the "trying to impress" analogy - only I don't believe the car is trying to impress the driver, more so trying to impress every around it because of its inherent inadequacy in trying to be something it's not.
I think a better analogy for hot hatches is "jack of all trades, master of none." - if you want driving enjoyment get a purpose built sports car, if you want to cart the kids and the shopping around get a saloon, or a regular hatch back for £10k less than the one with nicer alloys and 20bhp more. It's all just a marketing gimmick!
My argument is there are simply more enjoyable cars for the crazy money hot hatches now cost - look at the A45 AMG for example!
People are always trying to make their hot hatches sound more appealing than they actually are, like they're some sort of salesman/advocate for hot hatches, when in reality they are just flat out not as special as lots of other sports coupes etc at the exact same price point - used or new!
I like the "trying to impress" analogy - only I don't believe the car is trying to impress the driver, more so trying to impress every around it because of its inherent inadequacy in trying to be something it's not.
I think a better analogy for hot hatches is "jack of all trades, master of none." - if you want driving enjoyment get a purpose built sports car, if you want to cart the kids and the shopping around get a saloon, or a regular hatch back for £10k less than the one with nicer alloys and 20bhp more. It's all just a marketing gimmick!
For me it really depends on the extreme-ness of the hot hatch in question. For me a hot hatch has to be as usable as its lesser 'normal' versions. Anything with rock sold suspension and scaffolding in the back is essentially a track car and while brilliant at that side of things it will wear thin pretty fast day to day.
A good hot hatch should suit your mood, as good at a tip run, gentle drive about town, motorway cruise, b-road blast or track day, personally I would see a track day as the lowest priority of all of those as its what the car will spend the lowest percentage of its time doing. If I want the car to be quiet and placid, it should be that, if I want to attack a road a 10/10ths it should be able to do that too.
Oh and I seem to be one of very few who prefers 5 doors, I'll admit 3 doors often looks better but 5 doors is just so much more practical.
It should also be subtle, flared arches, a bodykit and whatever else are fine but they should be done in such a way that to a casual observer they just look like a nice version of whatever 'normal' car they represent.
The issue of power is also something I find intriguing, I find the more of a cars power I can use more of the time the more satisfying I find that car to drive, but I also value my licence so a car with enough power, but not so much you need to be doing 3 figure speeds to enjoy it is ideal.
I find the older hot hatches appealing as the recipe was simple, standard enough looking car, bigger than normal engine, with adequate power, nice handling and as useable as any other day to day hatch, oh and it should be available at reasonable money. So essentially I think the car below is all the hot hatch anyone really needs, the rest is just showing off.
So to answer the OP I am interested in hot hatches, just not at the extreme end of the scale.
A good hot hatch should suit your mood, as good at a tip run, gentle drive about town, motorway cruise, b-road blast or track day, personally I would see a track day as the lowest priority of all of those as its what the car will spend the lowest percentage of its time doing. If I want the car to be quiet and placid, it should be that, if I want to attack a road a 10/10ths it should be able to do that too.
Oh and I seem to be one of very few who prefers 5 doors, I'll admit 3 doors often looks better but 5 doors is just so much more practical.
It should also be subtle, flared arches, a bodykit and whatever else are fine but they should be done in such a way that to a casual observer they just look like a nice version of whatever 'normal' car they represent.
The issue of power is also something I find intriguing, I find the more of a cars power I can use more of the time the more satisfying I find that car to drive, but I also value my licence so a car with enough power, but not so much you need to be doing 3 figure speeds to enjoy it is ideal.
I find the older hot hatches appealing as the recipe was simple, standard enough looking car, bigger than normal engine, with adequate power, nice handling and as useable as any other day to day hatch, oh and it should be available at reasonable money. So essentially I think the car below is all the hot hatch anyone really needs, the rest is just showing off.
So to answer the OP I am interested in hot hatches, just not at the extreme end of the scale.
loose cannon said:
i understand people not wanting a hot hatch due to the image etc but anyone who thinks a hot hatch is just as dear to run as a big engined sallon or a premium sports car like a Porsche must either be deluded or simply only do about 4,000 miles a year
If that was aimed at me, my old FN2 has about the same fuel economy, road tax, insurance, and servicing costs as my 3.0 Z4 Coupe.Hot hatches ceased becoming cheap to run when they all started weighing as much as a tank, and needing much more powerful engines, bigger tyres and brakes etc etc. Unless you're talking about something like a Swift Sport, but then that's more what I would call a hot hatch from the old school. Most of the modern stuff is just nothing like that any more.
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