Classic car bursting...??

[hot66]

Bought my cars for driving and because I love them.... 13 years with the 2.4s , 3 years with the csl and only 18 months with 964

Depreciation proof is the only defence I have with the wife when another large bill for one of them rolls in

At least I don't need to face the depreciation my mate is looking at on his new range rover autobiography

Edited by hot66 on Tuesday 9th February 21:38

[NJH]

Great cars. I had a drive out in a 2.4S a few years back which only made matters worse, really loved the thing just the scary 70s brakes a bit off putting, I guess many an enthusiast will take that stuff off and store it somewhere and put later 3.2 Carrera bits on.

Its funny how these things pan out. I was chatting to this guy a few years back who sold his 2.7RS when he thought the prices had gone crazy, he used the money to buy 2x 993RS (one of my dream cars). At the time that was a very wise thing to do as the 993RS was not such crazy money then.

Its really difficult to see where the next thing is or place to put your money as everything is a bit crapola for those who are already paid up on their homes.

[delta0]

The markets and commodities are falling now. Gold and property is where the money will go. Classic cars are not a hugely safe asset and also can become hard to liquidate easily. On that basis the classic car market will suffer.

[Welshbeef]

hot66 said:

Bought my cars for driving and because I love them.... 13 years with the 2.4s , 3 years with the csl and only 18 months with 964

Depreciation proof is the only defence I have with the wife when another large bill for one of them rolls in

At least I don't need to face the depreciation my mate is looking at on his new range rover autobiography

Edited by hot66 on Tuesday 9th February 21:38

So at what point would you get the jitters and exit the market cash in sit back wait and then get back in when at the bottom/or are you an owner who would simply hold regardless of any drops?

[DonkeyApple]

delta0 said:

The markets and commodities are falling now. Gold and property is where the money will go. Classic cars are not a hugely safe asset and also can become hard to liquidate easily. On that basis the classic car market will suffer.

I would hazard that gold is more a trade against bank default or currency printing and property is traceable and taxed and about to be taxed more. One of the major advantages of cars is that they can be bought in smaller units than property, are untaxed, easy to launder money through, easy to hide, easy to transfer. There are some very big advantages to cars as assets.

An impending boost to the domestic classic car asset class is that investors in both pensions and property are about to get fked again in April and make sticking spare money into something that's tax free and fun to store possibly more attractive?

[SidewaysSi]

All this talk of money-you can't take it with you and probably someone you dont particularly like will end up getting your millions anyway. If you have the cash, but at the price and keep and enjoy the bloody thing.

I have an emotional connection to my cars so selling and buying the same again is not something I want to do.

[hot66]

It just numbers on paper .. If it was all about the money I wouldn't have lifted the compression and twin plugged the engine on the 2.4s or fitted pss10's to the 964

Don't get me wrong though, for me it's a huge amount of theoretical money tied up in metal, but I'm not selling unless I have to.... . I've also been in the classic Porsche world for such a long time that I know Ithere are very few nice cars about and most are in long term ownership and not likely to come on the market. Although with the increase in values there are now a few really high quality cars restored.

What if I did sell now though ... I could potentially have to wait another 2 years for prices to either stay where they are or drop and then the matter of trying to buy a decent car again ... 2 years of not having anything fun to drive or play with, just so I can maybe leave a bit of extra cash in my will . That would do my head in

. My plan is still to have the 2.4s and the 964 ten years from now . The csl will be sold at some point I imagine , but ultimately I still need a car to drive meetings etc when I can't take the Porsche .

Point being, I don't think I'm in the minority and don't assume all classic owners / buyers are purely in it for investment. A lot of people I know have worked hard and now have a bit of cash to spend on something to keep in the garage for weekends.... They can either walk into Audi and buy a new R8 or buy a classic that can give more driving pleasure, as much ownership pleasure and hopefully no depreciation .

Next to school fees ... All Cars look cheap

[Welshbeef]

DonkeyApple said:

An impending boost to the domestic classic car asset class is that investors in both pensions and property are about to get fked again in April and make sticking spare money into something that's tax free and fun to store possibly more attractive?

Fair point But you can only pay in £40k a year and realistically not many fulfill that quota as such the tax rebate is eager on average might be between £2-10k a year


I simply don't see what vehicle they would procure for such low £ values unless they leveraged up so you have interest costs to consider. Or you might simply not have the space to buy a new sub £10k classic car year on year.


Rare wine is easier

[CS Garth]

Welshbeef said:

Fair point But you can only pay in £40k a year and realistically not many fulfill that quota as such the tax rebate is eager on average might be between £2-10k a year


I simply don't see what vehicle they would procure for such low £ values unless they leveraged up so you have interest costs to consider. Or you might simply not have the space to buy a new sub £10k classic car year on year.


Rare wine is easier

As of April you can only stick 10k in. Wine is full of forgeries unless you go berry bros etc and the arse the fallen out since the Chinese clampdown on bribery. I'm buying brown furniture that due a renaissance

[DonkeyApple]

Welshbeef said:

DonkeyApple said:

An impending boost to the domestic classic car asset class is that investors in both pensions and property are about to get fked again in April and make sticking spare money into something that's tax free and fun to store possibly more attractive?

Fair point But you can only pay in £40k a year and realistically not many fulfill that quota as such the tax rebate is eager on average might be between £2-10k a year


I simply don't see what vehicle they would procure for such low £ values unless they leveraged up so you have interest costs to consider. Or you might simply not have the space to buy a new sub £10k classic car year on year.


Rare wine is easier

It's about sentiment. Not so long ago there were no limits and no taxation. Roll on a few years and we've gone from £2m limits to what, £1m? And max contributions per annum of what £250k down to £40k? And didn't we also lose the benefit on dividend income? And now it looks like the top rate is going to be removed.

Pensions have become pretty irrelevant for high earners now. You can't put in enough cash and you don't get anywhere near the benefits you used to. Net result, this excess cash has been going into alternatives such as property and cars.

Fill your pension. Fill your ISAs. Fill your kids pensions and ISAs. Buy a holiday home and in recent years buy an etype or similar.

Wine is a good and traditional addition also.

[HustleRussell]

Welshbeef said:

Clearly ideally you'd want to exit at top of the market and then get back in near the bottom. Just holding when there are big gains to be crystallised must mean they have other value to you sentimental or another?

...or you could just buy cars you want and sell them if or when you don't want them anymore?

Complicated concept, I realise.

[DonkeyApple]

HustleRussell said:

...or you could just buy cars you want and sell them if or when you don't want them anymore?

Complicated concept, I realise.

But that's consuming rather than speculating. It's speculators who have driven the bubble. Consumers are selective and price sensitive, speculators use leverage to gear up and readily over pay.

You'd expect most owners of classic cars on PH to be consumers?

[Welshbeef]

HustleRussell said:

Welshbeef said:

Clearly ideally you'd want to exit at top of the market and then get back in near the bottom. Just holding when there are big gains to be crystallised must mean they have other value to you sentimental or another?

...or you could just buy cars you want and sell them if or when you don't want them anymore?

Complicated concept, I realise.

But the point was you'd have that spare pension contribution every year and unless every classic car buyer is acquiring more and more every year then where is that money going?

You'll not get much of an investment classic car for £10k - you might but might not, so let's say you wait 4 years to build a war chest to buy said car - you then have the problem the market has moved on significantly.

[hidetheelephants]

Evidence of a classic bubble? Barnfind syndrome at any rate.

[DonkeyApple]

hidetheelephants said:

Evidence of a classic bubble? Barnfind syndrome at any rate.

Shouldn't we give the chap a call and try to explain why it was put in the barn and that he shouldn't have removed it?