Expensive vs cheap oil
Discussion
J4CKO said:
I suspect the Wilkos stuff, in a basic petrol engine will be fine, change it once a year or every 10,000 and the engine will last as long as the car.
The main things are warming an engine up, a degree of mechanical sympathy and clean oil on a fairly regular basis, whether its Mobil One or Discount shop own brand isnt really going to make that much difference on say 1 1.6 Focus, on an M5 it may make a difference but it probably wont be what finishes the car off, usually rust, accident, random unrelated failure like a cam belt or just being knackered.
Engines generally dont fail based on grade/quality of oil changed to schedule.
I say that with a few caveats, turbos usually need some kind of synthetic and spending more isnt going to do any harm but spending less might do, it might be the difference between an engine doing 250k and 300k, i.e. largely academic for most cars.
That was what i thought, thanks for an educated response instead of calling troll for a reasonable question.The main things are warming an engine up, a degree of mechanical sympathy and clean oil on a fairly regular basis, whether its Mobil One or Discount shop own brand isnt really going to make that much difference on say 1 1.6 Focus, on an M5 it may make a difference but it probably wont be what finishes the car off, usually rust, accident, random unrelated failure like a cam belt or just being knackered.
Engines generally dont fail based on grade/quality of oil changed to schedule.
I say that with a few caveats, turbos usually need some kind of synthetic and spending more isnt going to do any harm but spending less might do, it might be the difference between an engine doing 250k and 300k, i.e. largely academic for most cars.
I expect some more expensive oils may claim to last longer before breaking down into piss thin water, but if you change oil every 6k or so i cant see how it would be a problem
EazyDuz said:
It wouldn't be to me, but to you it would be, hence why i said it to you.
I really had to explain that? Ok, thats enough talking to Simple Simons for tonight.
Indeed. You had better step away from that mirror.I really had to explain that? Ok, thats enough talking to Simple Simons for tonight.
Anyway, your mum needs her computer now for that webcam stuff she does, and it's school in the morning. Off you toddle.
funkyrobot said:
Indeed. You had better step away from that mirror.
Anyway, your mum needs her computer now for that webcam stuff she does, and it's school in the morning. Off you toddle.
An adult male with a bad back dishing out mum insults. I sincerely hope you don't represent a typical PH member. Thanks for the chuckle though palAnyway, your mum needs her computer now for that webcam stuff she does, and it's school in the morning. Off you toddle.
Heaveho said:
Oil of Ulay's what you need, I mean, if it's called oil, it must be ok? Or does it work out as too expensive? Plus, they probably only do it in one viscosity. Hmmm. Er, fish oil, that's cheap. Or why not just use engine oil that's been drained out of someone else's car? Probably get that for nowt? No point in spending anything if you don't need to, right? It's not like an engine is difficult or expensive to fix if it goes bang, so why worry? Plus, once you've put oil in it once, why would you consider the need to replace it? It's just more oil......might as well leave the orignal in.
I have heard that snake oil works wonders. Maybe the OP could do with some of that?Heaveho said:
Oil of Ulay's what you need, I mean, if it's called oil, it must be ok? Or does it work out as too expensive? Plus, they probably only do it in one viscosity. Hmmm. Er, fish oil, that's cheap. Or why not just use engine oil that's been drained out of someone else's car? Probably get that for nowt? No point in spending anything if you don't need to, right? It's not like an engine is difficult or expensive to fix if it goes bang, so why worry? Plus, once you've put oil in it once, why would you consider the need to replace it? It's just more oil......might as well leave the original in.
Anyway, I've decided you're probably right.
Excellent post on the differences between supermarket 10w40 Vs named brands, you must work at Halfords to know so much.Anyway, I've decided you're probably right.
Edited by Heaveho on Wednesday 10th February 23:16
Are you also going to tell me you gained 10mpg using Shell petrol instead of Tesco?
EazyDuz said:
J4CKO said:
I suspect the Wilkos stuff, in a basic petrol engine will be fine, change it once a year or every 10,000 and the engine will last as long as the car.
The main things are warming an engine up, a degree of mechanical sympathy and clean oil on a fairly regular basis, whether its Mobil One or Discount shop own brand isnt really going to make that much difference on say 1 1.6 Focus, on an M5 it may make a difference but it probably wont be what finishes the car off, usually rust, accident, random unrelated failure like a cam belt or just being knackered.
Engines generally dont fail based on grade/quality of oil changed to schedule.
I say that with a few caveats, turbos usually need some kind of synthetic and spending more isnt going to do any harm but spending less might do, it might be the difference between an engine doing 250k and 300k, i.e. largely academic for most cars.
That was what i thought, thanks for an educated response instead of calling troll for a reasonable question.The main things are warming an engine up, a degree of mechanical sympathy and clean oil on a fairly regular basis, whether its Mobil One or Discount shop own brand isnt really going to make that much difference on say 1 1.6 Focus, on an M5 it may make a difference but it probably wont be what finishes the car off, usually rust, accident, random unrelated failure like a cam belt or just being knackered.
Engines generally dont fail based on grade/quality of oil changed to schedule.
I say that with a few caveats, turbos usually need some kind of synthetic and spending more isnt going to do any harm but spending less might do, it might be the difference between an engine doing 250k and 300k, i.e. largely academic for most cars.
I expect some more expensive oils may claim to last longer before breaking down into piss thin water, but if you change oil every 6k or so i cant see how it would be a problem
Engines generally dont go wrong for having slightly cheaper oil in, its getting run short or daft design flaws like Audi Piston rings, BMW Swirl flaps, Min timing chains, Rover Headgaskets, daft timing belt intervals and not accelerated wear due to spending a bit less on cheaper, but still appropriate oil.
EazyDuz said:
lostkiwi said:
As long as the oil I use passes meets the relevant manufacturers spec I'm not bothered what brand it is.
Much of the noise about oil is marketing and not really relevant on a regularly maintained vehicle.
Thought as muchMuch of the noise about oil is marketing and not really relevant on a regularly maintained vehicle.
I/we are rebuilding engines or working on engines all the time in my little business, specifically engines of one manufacturer. I would say the biggest factor of failure by far is oil - presumably whether it's changed or not, but it's very difficult indeed to get proper info from the customers. Either way, I'd say oil is the factor in something like over 90% of failures, type of use is possibly a factor in @ 9% (short journeys and lack of use is very hard on a car in our experience), and everything else combined is in the remaining 1%.
I do know this though for sure - it's the owners with lack of knowledge about cars who suffer more problems than the enthusiastic owners. The enthusiastic owners will take more care of their cars and that very much shows when we work on their cars. We have one in today for timing chain replacement, the engine is on 81,000 miles and it's lovely and clean inside, owner is an enthusiast. We have had countless owners in who clearly have little/no interest or knowledge about cars and their engines are invariably black as coal inside.
I tell customers to buy a brand (I don't advise buying Mobil 1 though); I tell customers to avoid supermarket oils. Until I see evidence that I'm wrong that's what I'll continue to do.
I also know this - when I factor in the thousands of pounds I will spend annually on fuel, maintenance, insurance and depreciation of my cars the £20-£50 extra I might spend on oil represents a very small percentage of annual cost. Taking all costs into consideration the extra I spend on good oil over cheap oil is effectively nothing. I'm protecting my engine for practically next to nothing, and I'm surprised anyone even wants to waste time thinking about, never mind buying, supermarket oil.
I use Unicorn Jizz mixed with the tears of angels in my engine.
If you want to read some interesting info on different oils clicky here
If you want to read some interesting info on different oils clicky here
Try running a Volkswagen PD diesel on oil without the low-ash (I think) additives that the VW50501 spec includes, and see how long your camshafts last!
Grade is only one part of a much bigger puzzle. Same reason I buy bosch/mann/mahle filters. The cheap stuff may fit, but that's not the whole story.
Grade is only one part of a much bigger puzzle. Same reason I buy bosch/mann/mahle filters. The cheap stuff may fit, but that's not the whole story.
A long time ago I had our lab run some tests on different petrols and oils as I had bought an Esprit and wanted to look after it.
We found that the composition and RON of the petrols varied considerably at the low end of the market; at supermarkets etc, whilst the premium brands (I think the old Optimax was one of them) were consistent and always exactly what they said they were.
As for oils, the cheap no-name lubricants were really poor performers; as mentioned here the viscosity profiles under temperature varied, considerably in some cases, from the stated specifications. Again, the premium brands performed as they said on the tin.
We even went so far as to use 2 oils from different ends of the spectrum in 2 similar cars and re-tested after similar mileage. The loss of viscosity in the unbranded oil was significantly higher than the premium. Not that noticeable when at ambient temperature, but when it got hot you may as well have used 'Mr Stallion Super-Delay Massage oil' to lubricate your moving parts.
OK, this might have been 20 years ago but was almost done scientifically and the results were enough to convince me to put the proper stuff in my motor. I'm not sure how much oil has changed over the years with 'additives', but back in my day it was worth paying for quality.
We found that the composition and RON of the petrols varied considerably at the low end of the market; at supermarkets etc, whilst the premium brands (I think the old Optimax was one of them) were consistent and always exactly what they said they were.
As for oils, the cheap no-name lubricants were really poor performers; as mentioned here the viscosity profiles under temperature varied, considerably in some cases, from the stated specifications. Again, the premium brands performed as they said on the tin.
We even went so far as to use 2 oils from different ends of the spectrum in 2 similar cars and re-tested after similar mileage. The loss of viscosity in the unbranded oil was significantly higher than the premium. Not that noticeable when at ambient temperature, but when it got hot you may as well have used 'Mr Stallion Super-Delay Massage oil' to lubricate your moving parts.
OK, this might have been 20 years ago but was almost done scientifically and the results were enough to convince me to put the proper stuff in my motor. I'm not sure how much oil has changed over the years with 'additives', but back in my day it was worth paying for quality.
OP has a perfectly valid point. Quality oil is a legacy of long term car ownership.
As modern owners are typically just short term leasees there is no logic in wasting money on something which is of no benefit or value to you.
The whole consumer society has shifted strongly to this way of consuming and buying expensive oils does seem heavily at odds with this.
As modern owners are typically just short term leasees there is no logic in wasting money on something which is of no benefit or value to you.
The whole consumer society has shifted strongly to this way of consuming and buying expensive oils does seem heavily at odds with this.
DonkeyApple said:
OP has a perfectly valid point. Quality oil is a legacy of long term car ownership.
As modern owners are typically just short term leasees there is no logic in wasting money on something which is of no benefit or value to you.
The whole consumer society has shifted strongly to this way of consuming and buying expensive oils does seem heavily at odds with this.
Good point but almost nobody is buying oil themselves, it'll be down to the servicing garage/dealer to pick the oil. Unless they are real backstreet shysters they will be very careful to use the right spec oil for the engine because they don't want the liability. Every independent garage I have ever used (and I've worked in a really ropey one too, 10 years ago) has used Autodata or a similar system to make sure they get the right viscosity and spec oil. I'd say you have a very good chance that any car with a service history from a dealer, decent independent or marque specialist will have always had the correct spec oil.As modern owners are typically just short term leasees there is no logic in wasting money on something which is of no benefit or value to you.
The whole consumer society has shifted strongly to this way of consuming and buying expensive oils does seem heavily at odds with this.
By spec I mean the manufacturers rating btw, not the largely meaningless viscosity ratings.
In any case I was originally going to post to say I can't tell if the OP is a troll or just a belligerent and quarrelsome t
t like 300bhp was.dme123 said:
DonkeyApple said:
OP has a perfectly valid point. Quality oil is a legacy of long term car ownership.
As modern owners are typically just short term leasees there is no logic in wasting money on something which is of no benefit or value to you.
The whole consumer society has shifted strongly to this way of consuming and buying expensive oils does seem heavily at odds with this.
Good point but almost nobody is buying oil themselves, it'll be down to the servicing garage/dealer to pick the oil. Unless they are real backstreet shysters they will be very careful to use the right spec oil for the engine because they don't want the liability. Every independent garage I have ever used (and I've worked in a really ropey one too, 10 years ago) has used Autodata or a similar system to make sure they get the right viscosity and spec oil. I'd say you have a very good chance that any car with a service history from a dealer, decent independent or marque specialist will have always had the correct spec oil.As modern owners are typically just short term leasees there is no logic in wasting money on something which is of no benefit or value to you.
The whole consumer society has shifted strongly to this way of consuming and buying expensive oils does seem heavily at odds with this.
By spec I mean the manufacturers rating btw, not the largely meaningless viscosity ratings.
In any case I was originally going to post to say I can't tell if the OP is a troll or just a belligerent and quarrelsome t
t like 300bhp was.I suspect it is very fair to say that the lubricant industry have specialist salesmen who work somewhat closely with manufacturers and I think it is fair to ask, seeing as we live in a world where any old b
ks is strung together to pitch completely unecassary tat to consumers, whether using a cheap, unbranded oil will make a genuine difference over expensive, branded oil in the average life cycle of a modern car?Cars are just disposable products now. Owned for short periods on a series of lending deals and then binned. I do suspect that the skipping of oil changes towards the end of the short life of the product is far more relevant than running it its whole life in a cheap oil.
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