Expensive vs cheap oil

[CABC]

Tommo Two said:

Who said they were hers?

I may (but definatly didn't) have spent 30 mins chatting to Jane the retail assisant about which denier whould be suitable for 5w40, she asked: 'was it any old crappy oil or if it was premium, as the addidtives in the premium oils filter better through the 10 - 15 denier. Also what size I was?' "Small to Medium ofcouse depending on what......... UM doesn't matter its just for OIL, so XXL for more filter area per ££...... here's a £20 keep the change, bye!"

seriously, what do the tights actually filter? Your race car is using oil for 5 hours, it can't contain swarf surely???
i could ask for pictures, but maybe not...

[TooMany2cvs]

CABC said:

seriously, what do the tights actually filter?

Indeed.

What's a typical oil filter good for? About 20micron?
Quick google suggests 15 denier is about 45micron.

So I s'pose it removes anything that was lurking in the drain tray, but not much more.

[CABC]

TooMany2cvs said:

Quick google suggests 15 denier is about 45micron.
.

you googled that? omg. they store that kind of stuff!
what ads are you now seeing?

[TooMany2cvs]

CABC said:

you googled that? omg. they store that kind of stuff!
what ads are you now seeing?

Tropical fish...

[J4CKO]

TooMany2cvs said:

So I s'pose it removes anything that was lurking in the drain tray, but not much more.

Isn't that usually called the Gusset ?

Anyway, he obviously uses clean ones.

[TooMany2cvs]

J4CKO said:

TooMany2cvs said:

So I s'pose it removes anything that was lurking in the drain tray, but not much more.

Isn't that usually called the Gusset ?

Anyway, he obviously uses clean ones.

Yet you resisted the "tropical fish" line? Shame!

[Tommo Two]

TooMany2cvs said:

CABC said:

seriously, what do the tights actually filter?

Indeed.

What's a typical oil filter good for? About 20micron?
Quick google suggests 15 denier is about 45micron.

So I s'pose it removes anything that was lurking in the drain tray, but not much more.

You got it, my units on a farm, so no matter how well i clean the drip tray out 1st, there always seems to be dead flies, bits of straw the odd leaf etc ending up in there.

[DonkeyApple]

SuperchargedVR6 said:

DonkeyApple said:

SuperchargedVR6 said:

Yes, it is. As stated further back, some VW engines need a specific blend to prevent camshaft wear. There are probably other engines out there with similar requirements.

But it's the consumers who are driving all this 'long life' oil isn't it? They want longer service intervals. The oil industry had to react accordingly. I'm pretty sure a typical VAG 2.0 TFSI engine run on cheap mineral oil, changed every 20K miles, wouldn't last as long as one run on the oil VW specified.

Yes but I don't think that is in dispute. The question is whether it matters if the engine doesn't last as long as the car will have been scrapped long before?

What we have had so far is some anecdotal tales, some theories and guesses and some marketing text from companies who's job it is to sell premium oils.

I think this thread could be genuinely beneficial if there were any actual facts out there to support claims that cheap oils will not allow the engine to last the useable lifetime of the vehicle.

Besides, if consumers are pushing for anything it is lower prices and the job of the manufacturers is to give them what looks like a better deal while still keeping revenues and margins growing. And that suggests that enforcing the use of expensive oils may be driven by other factors?

I use expensive oils in my cars and change the oil more regularly than any manufacturer would state. But I keep my cars for years. I very much suspect that in the average consumption of a normal utility transport box the quality of oil used is pretty much irrelevant because the car is going to be binned long before less efficient oil leads to the end of the engine?

Same, I keep my cars for a while too and I also change the oil much more frequently than specified. Is that beneficial in the long run? I don't know, but I've stripped enough engines in my time to see the damage caused by negligence. So for my own peace of mind, I use what the OEM specifies and change it according to my driving style.

Facts, everyone loves them. I think only Mobil have done proper scientific testing of their Mobil 1 vs a cheaper oil. Running 2 identical engines side by side for 1000s of miles is an extremely rare experiment, so there just isn't enough empirical data out there for anyone to be 100% sure.

My thoughts are:

1 - an engine will run for as long as it's lubricated. That can be 5 minutes or 5 decades.
2 - OEMs know a good deal more about this subject than we do. So if they specify a particular oil, it's wise to accept it.

I think the perception of cars being scrapped sooner is just that, a perception. Roads are getting busier & standards of driving are worse than ever, so most cars are being dumped because of accidents. All the lease cars will eventually end up in private ownership and people want to see evidence of dealer servicing, not back street Bob using Asda's own brand mineral oil.

We all know engine tolerances have become significantly tighter in modern engines. Tighter piston and bearing clearances, camshaft variators, precision turbos, high lift diesel cams pushing massive pressures - they all require a decent oil that won't sludge up quickly. We're not talking BL A series engines that need 20W/50 Duckhams Hypergrade. I have no doubt a modern engine if run on the correct oil can last indefinitely.

Yup. I think that's why the OP raises a perfectly valid question. I very much suspect that pretty much any correct oil will keep a normal car engine going long after the car has been consigned to the scrapie because it's too expensive to replace a light bulb or something if the car is serviced and maintained properly.

I think there is a valid view however that the chap who automatically bungs in the cheapest is likely to be the guy who is only doing so because the oil warning light came on last month and the noises are getting louder. But that's not an issue with the oil brand.

[HustleRussell]

SuperchargedVR6 said:

You think more and more cars are being scrapped from engine wear then?

Do I?

[Mr Teddy Bear]

Is there anybody actually prepared to admit to using really cheap engine oil? such as Q8 from ECP or supermarket own brands?



Only on Piston heads could a discussion of the relative merit's of engine oil morph into ladies tights as a filtration medium; why tights and not stockings then?

[e21Mark]

Mr Teddy Bear said:

Is there anybody actually prepared to admit to using really cheap engine oil? such as Q8 from ECP or supermarket own brands?

Just come from my local Home Bargain store and you can get 5l of their engine oil for £9.99. If I was running a car worth a few hundred quid, I wouldn't think twice about using it.

[steveo3002]

ive ran the 9.99 stuff in an old polo we own , it didnt explode but sounds happier with a brand name oil in , so i stick with known names now

[Heaveho]

EazyDuz said:

Excellent post on the differences between supermarket 10w40 Vs named brands, you must work at Halfords to know so much.
Are you also going to tell me you gained 10mpg using Shell petrol instead of Tesco?

Thanks for noticing all the effort I went to, put about as much in as you did thinking about your original post..........got sacked by Halfords, fortunately Lexus had lower standards and saved the day.

Gained 10mpg by changing to Shell from Sainsburys, not Tesco, anyone who knows anything can see through a trick question like that!

What do you drive and what oil do you currently use? Genuine question if this isn't generally too excellent a post?

[Barchettaman]

Mr Teddy Bear said:

Is there anybody actually prepared to admit to using really cheap engine oil? such as Q8 from ECP or supermarket own brands?

Yes, me: 5w30 Mannol from eBay.de, that meets Dexos 2 and BMW LL-04 spec. It comes in at approx £2.50/litre.

[Ozzie Osmond]

My world is a simple place - why put £5 oil in a £5,000 car? Let alone a £20,000 car?

The cost of oil changes with "expensive" oil is completely immaterial in the real world of car ownership costs. On the other hand the cost of an engine rebuild is very material indeed.

[Heaveho]

Ozzie Osmond said:

My world is a simple place - why put £5 oil in a £5,000 car? Let alone a £20,000 car?

The cost of oil changes with "expensive" oil is completely immaterial in the real world of car ownership costs. On the other hand the cost of an engine rebuild is very material indeed.

As far as serious answers have any place in a thread like this, then this one would be something to agree with.

[CS Garth]

As above. Why chance things for the price of a takeaway? If brand oils cost 50 quid a litre I could see the point of this thread. It doesn't. I don't.

[abbotsmike]

SuperchargedVR6 said:

I think the perception of cars being scrapped sooner is just that, a perception. Roads are getting busier & standards of driving are worse than ever, so most cars are being dumped because of accidents. All the lease cars will eventually end up in private ownership and people want to see evidence of dealer servicing, not back street Bob using Asda's own brand mineral oil.

I think the large number of people posting in the 100,000 mile club thread, often with modern cars, often way over 100k proves that cars are lasting quite well!

I drive a PD130 engined Ibiza. For the first 50k it was serviced at a main dealer, since then it's been done my me (another 50k) and always get Quantum Platinum oil. About £4 a litre and carries all relevant approvals. Oil and filter every 10k and the engine seems perfectly happy.

When I get it back on the road, I'll run the land rover on the same, Given that the TD5 is also a unit injector engine.

[GC8]

TooMany2cvs said:

InductionRoar said:

This has potential.

Not really. Obvious troll is obvious.

That's rich coming from you. A bigger gobste here I am yet to see.

[Tommo Two]

Mr Teddy Bear said:

Is there anybody actually prepared to admit to using really cheap engine oil? such as Q8 from ECP or supermarket own brands?



Only on Piston heads could a discussion of the relative merit's of engine oil morph into ladies tights as a filtration medium; why tights and not stockings then?

"why tights and not stockings then?"

Hello......... Price!! I'm not saying im tight, but I like to be efficient with my hosiery costs. Its alright if you borrow / steal your partners but I have to foot the bills when it come to car related items!