RE: Skoda Octavia vRS Revo Technik: Driven
Discussion
ToothbrushMan said:
SuperchargedVR6 said:
ToothbrushMan said:
is the DSG box the same as in the Golf R? the same one that apparently VW say is limited to 280lb/ft.
weve got 380lb/ft here......or is it the 4wd transfer box thats the limiting factor in the Golf?
Isn't there also a limit to how many launch controls you can do?weve got 380lb/ft here......or is it the 4wd transfer box thats the limiting factor in the Golf?
I don't know about the current boxes, but up to MK6 Golf, it was the casings that were the weakest link. The bearing carriers in the end case are borderline with the thrust loadings and over time, they ovalise, causing the gear shafts to move apart slightly. In a standard car this results in noise and vibration. In a boosted car it can result in gear teeth shearing off. And VW still rivet the crown wheel, the heads of which like to make a bid for freedom and smash a hole through the diff case. Nice.
As MaxTorque said, 13K miles development is nothing. If VW put a 280lbft limit on the gearbox, you're on borrowed time!
I don't know what box the RS3/TTRS has but being transverse, it'll share most of the Golf R's drivetrain.
Aftermarket tuners have been clobbering the wet DSG box with more torque for years now, and I have to say, I've heard of very few failures. The clutch packs slip way before any teeth stripping occurs. Gearbox life is rarely black or white though. Some mechanical sympathy goes a long way to preserving their life. VW's testing probably consists of giving the car death off the line repeatedly until something breaks. Most customers would do a full bore launch once in a blue moon.
James Drake said:
Erm, have you read the article? There are several references to the fact that the car needs a limited slip differential (although referred to as a "differential" due to it being a common term).
I am well aware of what a limited slip differential does, how they impact the way a car drives and - in the case of some of the mechanical examples - how they work too.
Yes, of course I have read the article, otherwise how would I have spotted the misuse of the word?!I am well aware of what a limited slip differential does, how they impact the way a car drives and - in the case of some of the mechanical examples - how they work too.
Since when has differential meant or implied a very specific type of differential, that is only 1 type? It's like calling a 4 cylinder engine a cylinder engine, or a V6 a 6, or twin cam, cam. It just makes no sense.
Differential is not a common term for a limited slip differential, because the important detail in the description is missing.
Take responsibility and admit you didn't know what a differential was when you wrote this article, even if you do now. Or alternatively, please share a link where we will find examples of other people using the common naming in a similar context.
And don't tell me I am being a pedant when the whole article is littered with references to it, it would seemingly be good to get the detail right.
Other than that, I have no problem with the article, or your writing.
alolympic said:
Yes, of course I have read the article, otherwise how would I have spotted the misuse of the word?!
Since when has differential meant or implied a very specific type of differential, that is only 1 type? It's like calling a 4 cylinder engine a cylinder engine, or a V6 a 6, or twin cam, cam. It just makes no sense.
Differential is not a common term for a limited slip differential, because the important detail in the description is missing.
Take responsibility and admit you didn't know what a differential was when you wrote this article, even if you do now. Or alternatively, please share a link where we will find examples of other people using the common naming in a similar context.
And don't tell me I am being a pedant when the whole article is littered with references to it, it would seemingly be good to get the detail right.
Other than that, I have no problem with the article, or your writing.
Well, I was hoping not to have to bore everyone to death, but since you asked...Since when has differential meant or implied a very specific type of differential, that is only 1 type? It's like calling a 4 cylinder engine a cylinder engine, or a V6 a 6, or twin cam, cam. It just makes no sense.
Differential is not a common term for a limited slip differential, because the important detail in the description is missing.
Take responsibility and admit you didn't know what a differential was when you wrote this article, even if you do now. Or alternatively, please share a link where we will find examples of other people using the common naming in a similar context.
And don't tell me I am being a pedant when the whole article is littered with references to it, it would seemingly be good to get the detail right.
Other than that, I have no problem with the article, or your writing.
Well, for starters there are several people that have already posted that are in agreement with me on this, so clearly I'm not alone in being the only person in the world to refer to a limited slip differential as a "diff". A straw poll around the office also indicated the same.
Second) In the article I reference the fact that the later 230 edition of the VRS (which sadly wasn't available when they started this project) features the "clever VAQ differential", so on that point alone it demonstrates that I'm aware that the 220 version of the car (that the demonstrator is based on) only has an open differential.
Thirdly) Here is a picture of a modern F1 car steering wheel. Despite the fact that F1 has utilised all manner of limited slip differential technology for years, you'll note that the control for it is clearly marked "Diff". And don't tell me that is just because it an abbreviation because LSD is even less letters
Forth) I'm lucky enough to have previously worked at Caterham for 8 years, where I was heavily involved in the specification of the cars, most of which come as standard with a diff... Sorry Limited Slip Differential. During my time there I was also (Perhaps even more luckily) given the opportunity to drive a lot of the development cars and (often featuring development parts) in order to give feedback to the engineers. This included the points when we changed diff - sorry limited Slip differential - suppliers, which happened twice during my time there. On top of that, I was also involved in the set up of all of pretty much all of the press cars from about 2008 onwards, most of which were universally praised... And I'm not sure that would've been possible without an intimate understanding of what a diff... Sorry limited slip differential does.
Towards the end of my time at Caterham I was also responsible for the entire press fleet and the Caterham Drive Experience fleet, including their maintenance.
In short, On top of going into details explaining how a Quaife ATB "torque biasing" differential feels different to the Ford Sierra sourced one, as used in older Caterhams or the BMW ones currently in use, I could also go into details around the service and maintenance schedules we had to carry out on the diffs... Sorry Limited slip differentials that got mullered on a regular basis by the CDX team.
But, frankly all of this is a bit dull so perhaps you could just give me the benefit of the doubt and perhaps, just maybe, accept that some people do in fact refer to a limited slip differential as a "diff" so we can all get back to talking about more interesting stuff?
Apologies to anyone other than alolympic who has just had this misfortune of reading this!
JD
Whilst I largely agree with the post, I'm not sure the F1 wheel is strictly relevant. It's marked "diff" because it's adjusts the differential; the fact that it's actually adjusting the slip limitation of the differential is largely irrelevant since there's almost certainly nothing else adjustable on it. 
On a side note, can you imagine trying to operate that thing when racing?
On a side note, can you imagine trying to operate that thing when racing?
Edited by kambites on Friday 12th February 20:05
James Drake said:
Well, I was hoping not to have to bore everyone to death, but since you asked...
Well, for starters there are several people that have already posted that are in agreement with me on this, so clearly I'm not alone in being the only person in the world to refer to a limited slip differential as a "diff". A straw poll around the office also indicated the same.
Second) In the article I reference the fact that the later 230 edition of the VRS (which sadly wasn't available when they started this project) features the "clever VAQ differential", so on that point alone it demonstrates that I'm aware that the 220 version of the car (that the demonstrator is based on) only has an open differential.
Thirdly) Here is a picture of a modern F1 car steering wheel. Despite the fact that F1 has utilised all manner of limited slip differential technology for years, you'll note that the control for it is clearly marked "Diff". And don't tell me that is just because it an abbreviation because LSD is even less letters
Forth) I'm lucky enough to have previously worked at Caterham for 8 years, where I was heavily involved in the specification of the cars, most of which come as standard with a diff... Sorry Limited Slip Differential. During my time there I was also (Perhaps even more luckily) given the opportunity to drive a lot of the development cars and (often featuring development parts) in order to give feedback to the engineers. This included the points when we changed diff - sorry limited Slip differential - suppliers, which happened twice during my time there. On top of that, I was also involved in the set up of all of pretty much all of the press cars from about 2008 onwards, most of which were universally praised... And I'm not sure that would've been possible without an intimate understanding of what a diff... Sorry limited slip differential does.
Towards the end of my time at Caterham I was also responsible for the entire press fleet and the Caterham Drive Experience fleet, including their maintenance.
In short, On top of going into details explaining how a Quaife ATB "torque biasing" differential feels different to the Ford Sierra sourced one, as used in older Caterhams or the BMW ones currently in use, I could also go into details around the service and maintenance schedules we had to carry out on the diffs... Sorry Limited slip differentials that got mullered on a regular basis by the CDX team.
But, frankly all of this is a bit dull so perhaps you could just give me the benefit of the doubt and perhaps, just maybe, accept that some people do in fact refer to a limited slip differential as a "diff" so we can all get back to talking about more interesting stuff?
Apologies to anyone other than alolympic who has just had this misfortune of reading this!
JD
Okay, I stand corrected, you must know what a differential is. Apologies for tarring you with that brush.Well, for starters there are several people that have already posted that are in agreement with me on this, so clearly I'm not alone in being the only person in the world to refer to a limited slip differential as a "diff". A straw poll around the office also indicated the same.
Second) In the article I reference the fact that the later 230 edition of the VRS (which sadly wasn't available when they started this project) features the "clever VAQ differential", so on that point alone it demonstrates that I'm aware that the 220 version of the car (that the demonstrator is based on) only has an open differential.
Thirdly) Here is a picture of a modern F1 car steering wheel. Despite the fact that F1 has utilised all manner of limited slip differential technology for years, you'll note that the control for it is clearly marked "Diff". And don't tell me that is just because it an abbreviation because LSD is even less letters
Forth) I'm lucky enough to have previously worked at Caterham for 8 years, where I was heavily involved in the specification of the cars, most of which come as standard with a diff... Sorry Limited Slip Differential. During my time there I was also (Perhaps even more luckily) given the opportunity to drive a lot of the development cars and (often featuring development parts) in order to give feedback to the engineers. This included the points when we changed diff - sorry limited Slip differential - suppliers, which happened twice during my time there. On top of that, I was also involved in the set up of all of pretty much all of the press cars from about 2008 onwards, most of which were universally praised... And I'm not sure that would've been possible without an intimate understanding of what a diff... Sorry limited slip differential does.
Towards the end of my time at Caterham I was also responsible for the entire press fleet and the Caterham Drive Experience fleet, including their maintenance.
In short, On top of going into details explaining how a Quaife ATB "torque biasing" differential feels different to the Ford Sierra sourced one, as used in older Caterhams or the BMW ones currently in use, I could also go into details around the service and maintenance schedules we had to carry out on the diffs... Sorry Limited slip differentials that got mullered on a regular basis by the CDX team.
But, frankly all of this is a bit dull so perhaps you could just give me the benefit of the doubt and perhaps, just maybe, accept that some people do in fact refer to a limited slip differential as a "diff" so we can all get back to talking about more interesting stuff?
Apologies to anyone other than alolympic who has just had this misfortune of reading this!
JD
Which actually makes it even weirder that you omitted the important detail in the article.....
Your subsequent points sarcastically apologising for calling an LSD a diff are just churlish. The fact remains, your write up have left at least some of your readership confused without you articulating the details correctly. And as a reminder, you are writing for people like me, so if you don't learn something from my feedback and others, than you will be limiting your potential to engage your readership, and build respect and liking.
All I would suggest is, next time, don't skimp on the engineering details. This is not a motoring supplement in the broadsheets. We generally expect a different level of detail, and also, have the beauty of feeding back online, which surely can help develop and build greater empathy with the audience. The article would have had the same effect, and you would have avoided this nonsense, by just adding the necessary detail.
I fear there will be some sarcastic retort because the public questioning, advice, or request for better attention to detail in your writing may make you feel uncomfortable. But I would much prefer this feedback was just contemplated for a while. And I do apologise for any negative feeings coming from it, I just want to exercise the freedom that we have as an online community to exchange thoughts and hope there is something small learnt, even if it is that there are people like me out there that expect things to be bang on. All the best anyway.
SuperchargedVR6 said:
ToothbrushMan said:
is the DSG box the same as in the Golf R? the same one that apparently VW say is limited to 280lb/ft.
weve got 380lb/ft here......or is it the 4wd transfer box thats the limiting factor in the Golf?
If VW put a 280lbft limit on the gearbox, you're on borrowed time!weve got 380lb/ft here......or is it the 4wd transfer box thats the limiting factor in the Golf?
kambites said:
I don't think it's a question of being "caught out by it" - everyone knew what you meant. It's a question of pedantry.
The misuse of terminology around differential types (and other such things) can be highly confusing in highly technical articles sometimes but in the mainstream media it's usually pretty obvious what's meant. I don't know what the last (four wheeled) car on the market which actually didn't have a differential was, but I doubt anyone remembers it.
Fraser Nash? (possible last car not to have a differential)The misuse of terminology around differential types (and other such things) can be highly confusing in highly technical articles sometimes but in the mainstream media it's usually pretty obvious what's meant. I don't know what the last (four wheeled) car on the market which actually didn't have a differential was, but I doubt anyone remembers it.
Edited by kambites on Friday 12th February 09:01
James Drake said:
Fair enough - but I assure you it is a common term that has been in regular use for a long time (as acknowledged by the first poster that picked up on it). I'm surprised that on PH of all places people are being caught out by this, but anyway I'll make sure the subbing team are aware of this so that future articles are clearer.
Thanks all
JD
This misuse of the language may well be common in some circles, but where a misuse of this nature positively betrays its own meaning, then it is very much better avoided in journalism.Thanks all
JD
pfnsht said:
Why not just buy a Leon Cupra ST, map it to nearly as much power less £dosh and probably less strain on the engine (in terms of the %age increase in power of stock)?
Or am I missing something here.
Crappy interior? The Skoda's actually a nicer place to sit than the SEAT!Or am I missing something here.
Edited by pfnsht on Friday 12th February 23:10
RevoMichael said:
AER said:
If the standard car is running 1.2Bar and you're not running above 2.0 Bar then there simply isn't enough air there to make the power you're claiming
WHP indeed!
Why? It is on 210bar fuel pressure and flowing 1150kg/h at rev limit.WHP indeed!
Edited by AER on Friday 12th February 13:23
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