RE: Skoda Octavia vRS Revo Technik: Driven
Discussion
gizlaroc said:
Scottie - NW said:
This doesn't sound like professional tuning to me, more like whack the boost up bro.
As someone who's had 2 litre 400bhp car for over 10 years now, taken from stock 200bhp like in this case, I've built it properly and to last.
That means, forged pistons/rods, ACL bearing, MHG, ARP bolts, uprated cams, RAS, springs/retainers and so on.
Then the clutch, rebuilt gearbox with strengthed internals, uprated LSD.
Before we even get to cooling, radiator twice as thick, huge FMIC, coolant and oil temp and pressure gauges and so on. Diff oil cooler.
Bigger turbo generally benefit from manifold as well, full exhaust system.
We've not even mentioned suspension/chassis or brakes yet.
If you do it properly you do it once, and can enjoy the car in full on track as well. I wouldn't want to see the oil and coolant temps of this skoda when used properly on track, or even how long the brakes would last.
This article is making me think less of Revo and PH
Blimey, did you not just consider buying a 400hp car in the first place? As someone who's had 2 litre 400bhp car for over 10 years now, taken from stock 200bhp like in this case, I've built it properly and to last.
That means, forged pistons/rods, ACL bearing, MHG, ARP bolts, uprated cams, RAS, springs/retainers and so on.
Then the clutch, rebuilt gearbox with strengthed internals, uprated LSD.
Before we even get to cooling, radiator twice as thick, huge FMIC, coolant and oil temp and pressure gauges and so on. Diff oil cooler.
Bigger turbo generally benefit from manifold as well, full exhaust system.
We've not even mentioned suspension/chassis or brakes yet.
If you do it properly you do it once, and can enjoy the car in full on track as well. I wouldn't want to see the oil and coolant temps of this skoda when used properly on track, or even how long the brakes would last.
This article is making me think less of Revo and PH
There is a point to what Scottie-NW says, although I don't think that most owners of this type of car, would use them for track days, in which case it will be fine.
I have kept an eye on the Revo projects for years and know a few owners of Revo upgraded cars, yet I have never heard of there being any problems.
Edited by CS400 on Thursday 11th February 21:31
gizlaroc said:
Blimey, did you not just consider buying a 400hp car in the first place?
I wanted a light (1200kg) RWD car and could not buy the car I wanted.Plus it was my hobby and I wanted to learn and I really enjoyed the process of understanding and choosing components, I know so much more than I did before.
There is also the satisfaction element of something you helped create.
Plus the finances stacked up, 12 years ago car cost me £6k at five years old, and have recently been offered £11k for it. I imported lots of parts from Japan and US, bought and sold wisely sometimes near new parts, took part in group buy, used friends help, bought quality part for the future when I saw them at correct price, so spent 7 to 8k.
So if you add 6 and 8 minus the potential sale price it's only cost me 3k in depreciation and parts costs for 12 years of absolute enjoyment
It's cool but I completely agree with what Scottie-NW says i.e. it appears cheap for the performance because this is the bargain basement way of achieving 400bhp.
There's no way I'd take mine to 400bhp without some major work to core components (forged pistons, uprated DSG clutch packs etc.) and the EA113 block is supposedly hardier than the EA888 in the vRS.
There's no way I'd take mine to 400bhp without some major work to core components (forged pistons, uprated DSG clutch packs etc.) and the EA113 block is supposedly hardier than the EA888 in the vRS.
That'd be more WHP neasurements then (w
k Horse Power)
410hp at 5400 is 34 and a bit Bar BMEP - yes something will break and the conrod bearings are probably beyond their fatigue limit - expect catastrophic lubrication failure if you use all that power (if it exists)
Of course, the boost levels to get this power means you've taken the standard Golf R-spec engine from 1 bar (normal) to 1.8-2.0Bar boost and perhaps beyond (ridiculous!). Sure, there's the new turbo (knicked from the Golf R) but really, the extra compression heating is going to be enormous and difficult to get rid of. Where's the monster intercooler radiator grazing it's chin? Peak cylinder pressures will be through the roof and who knows what the exhaust valve bridge temperatures are doing.
If the engine lasts, then it's not making 410hp. If it doesn't last, it still might not be making 410hp, but also remember plenty of sensible people told you so too!
k Horse Power)410hp at 5400 is 34 and a bit Bar BMEP - yes something will break and the conrod bearings are probably beyond their fatigue limit - expect catastrophic lubrication failure if you use all that power (if it exists)
Of course, the boost levels to get this power means you've taken the standard Golf R-spec engine from 1 bar (normal) to 1.8-2.0Bar boost and perhaps beyond (ridiculous!). Sure, there's the new turbo (knicked from the Golf R) but really, the extra compression heating is going to be enormous and difficult to get rid of. Where's the monster intercooler radiator grazing it's chin? Peak cylinder pressures will be through the roof and who knows what the exhaust valve bridge temperatures are doing.
If the engine lasts, then it's not making 410hp. If it doesn't last, it still might not be making 410hp, but also remember plenty of sensible people told you so too!
skidskid said:
Its not what PH readers has become, its what PH journalism has become. As a professional writer there is no excuse for bad grammar, PH isnt exactly some random teenagers super wicked blog. If the cars your drive are badly developed you jump all over it, same thing here but for the articles.
Still, not as bad as the pics the other day in the Aston story.
Personally, I don't think this is a case of bad grammar. I think it is another case of car journalism where there is a complete lack of mechanical knowledge. Being able to write a spec sheet is not knowledge. There is no way that knowing the car has an open differential, rather than an LSD, that it wouldn't have been articulated at least once in the article. Busted I think.Still, not as bad as the pics the other day in the Aston story.
alolympic said:
Personally, I don't think this is a case of bad grammar. I think it is another case of car journalism where there is a complete lack of mechanical knowledge. Being able to write a spec sheet is not knowledge. There is no way that knowing the car has an open differential, rather than an LSD, that it wouldn't have been articulated at least once in the article. Busted I think.
Erm, have you read the article? There are several references to the fact that the car needs a limited slip differential (although referred to as a "differential" due to it being a common term).I am well aware of what a limited slip differential does, how they impact the way a car drives and - in the case of some of the mechanical examples - how they work too.
James Drake said:
There are several references to the fact that the car needs a limited slip differential (although referred to as a "differential" due to it being a common term).
I'm sorry but I've never heard anyone refer to an LSD as a differential, the "LS" is the bit that makes the difference and no one is going to think you're suggesting the Octavia needs a hallucinogen.kambites said:
Well yes, but at a price. The Golf is 8k more expensive out of the box so still a good 5k once you've upped the Skoda's power. I suspect there's bigger discounts to be had on the Octavia than the Golf as well.
I can't speak for the discounts on the Skoda but I got nearly 20% off the VW, the R is heavily discounted at present.I'd also expect the Golf to hold its value better, although both will be a difficult sale if you leave the Revo extras on.
Edited by tankplanker on Friday 12th February 08:20
V8RX7 said:
I'm sorry but I've never heard anyone refer to an LSD as a differential, the "LS" is the bit that makes the difference and no one is going to think you're suggesting the Octavia needs a hallucinogen.
Fair enough - but I assure you it is a common term that has been in regular use for a long time (as acknowledged by the first poster that picked up on it). I'm surprised that on PH of all places people are being caught out by this, but anyway I'll make sure the subbing team are aware of this so that future articles are clearer.Thanks all
JD
I don't think it's a question of being "caught out by it" - everyone knew what you meant. It's a question of pedantry.
The misuse of terminology around differential types (and other such things) can be highly confusing in highly technical articles sometimes but in the mainstream media it's usually pretty obvious what's meant. I don't know what the last (four wheeled) car on the market which actually didn't have a differential was, but I doubt anyone remembers it.
The misuse of terminology around differential types (and other such things) can be highly confusing in highly technical articles sometimes but in the mainstream media it's usually pretty obvious what's meant. I don't know what the last (four wheeled) car on the market which actually didn't have a differential was, but I doubt anyone remembers it.
Edited by kambites on Friday 12th February 09:01
AER said:
That'd be more WHP neasurements then (wk Horse Power)
410hp at 5400 is 34 and a bit Bar BMEP - yes something will break and the conrod bearings are probably beyond their fatigue limit - expect catastrophic lubrication failure if you use all that power (if it exists)
Of course, the boost levels to get this power means you've taken the standard Golf R-spec engine from 1 bar (normal) to 1.8-2.0Bar boost and perhaps beyond (ridiculous!). Sure, there's the new turbo (knicked from the Golf R) but really, the extra compression heating is going to be enormous and difficult to get rid of. Where's the monster intercooler radiator grazing it's chin? Peak cylinder pressures will be through the roof and who knows what the exhaust valve bridge temperatures are doing.
If the engine lasts, then it's not making 410hp. If it doesn't last, it still might not be making 410hp, but also remember plenty of sensible people told you so too!
To clarify - the stock 7R/S3 run more than 1bar boost stock, nearly 1.2bar in fact. Secondly this vRS isn't running 2.0 bar, or even 1.8 bar, it is less than that, running 2bar on a car with stock internals would be asking for trouble.k Horse Power)410hp at 5400 is 34 and a bit Bar BMEP - yes something will break and the conrod bearings are probably beyond their fatigue limit - expect catastrophic lubrication failure if you use all that power (if it exists)
Of course, the boost levels to get this power means you've taken the standard Golf R-spec engine from 1 bar (normal) to 1.8-2.0Bar boost and perhaps beyond (ridiculous!). Sure, there's the new turbo (knicked from the Golf R) but really, the extra compression heating is going to be enormous and difficult to get rid of. Where's the monster intercooler radiator grazing it's chin? Peak cylinder pressures will be through the roof and who knows what the exhaust valve bridge temperatures are doing.
If the engine lasts, then it's not making 410hp. If it doesn't last, it still might not be making 410hp, but also remember plenty of sensible people told you so too!
kambites said:
I don't think it's a question of being "caught out by it" - everyone knew what you meant. It's a question of pedantry.
I didn't.I've been on car forums since they've been in existence and modified more cars than most will ever own and not once has anyone called an LSD a differential.
Perhaps it's common parlance on the Max Power type forums.
kambites said:
Interesting, I had no idea VW were having that much trouble selling them.
Re residuals, you're probably right, the Octavia is average at best. Of course most of both cars will be leased initially so actual purchase price is increasingly irrelevant.
The GFV should be based on the RRP for the car not including discounts, so the discounts should reduce the amount you are directly paying for with the monthly payments. As the GFV should be higher on the Golf (higher RRP and better depreciation) then the payments should be much closer between the two cars. Re residuals, you're probably right, the Octavia is average at best. Of course most of both cars will be leased initially so actual purchase price is increasingly irrelevant.
Although it'd be a huge risk going for this much power on anything leased as you'll be f'd if anything major goes wrong having the rest of the fiance to pay, the GFV and the repair bill, I'd rather buy the car with a HP loan if I was modding it from new.
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