Salesman goes into the back for ages to talk to his manager

[daytona355]

In any business, what we customers sometimes forget is that they must make some profit, we shouldn't get shafted, but we are not going to get the car/watch/suit etc for the price the seller paid, it makes no sense. They have overheads. Expect to bargain, and if you are clever, or well researched, you will undoubtedly be able to haggle unless it's a rare car or special order, and shop around if possible. If a dealership treats you badly, there is normally another locally that won't! Vote with your feet

[whoami]

daytona355 said:

In any business, what we customers sometimes forget is that they must make some profit, we shouldn't get shafted, but we are not going to get the car/watch/suit etc for the price the seller paid, it makes no sense. They have overheads. Expect to bargain, and if you are clever, or well researched, you will undoubtedly be able to haggle unless it's a rare car or special order, and shop around if possible. If a dealership treats you badly, there is normally another locally that won't! Vote with your feet

Thank you.

I did not know that.

[daytona355]

Looks like a lot of people don't judging by the thread in general mate, but then being British is all about finding something to moan about I suppose

[Motorrad]

hondansx said:

I wonder how many people - on the flipside - focus on being a good customer? The reality is a car salesperson is in it for themselves; it's a ruthless job. However, they may give a nice bloke a better deal and opt to shaft someone else to compensate. I'd rather go for the former approach rather than assuming you are going into battle.

Good point. That doesn't mean you have to be a roll-over, wet dream of a customer but in a sales situation the most desirable outcome is where everyone's happy with the deal.

[vikingaero]

Motorrad said:

hondansx said:

I wonder how many people - on the flipside - focus on being a good customer? The reality is a car salesperson is in it for themselves; it's a ruthless job. However, they may give a nice bloke a better deal and opt to shaft someone else to compensate. I'd rather go for the former approach rather than assuming you are going into battle.

Good point. That doesn't mean you have to be a roll-over, wet dream of a customer but in a sales situation the most desirable outcome is where everyone's happy with the deal.

I like to think that I'm a good customer. I'm friendly, banter and am polite. As a rule I'm not a 15 year old that needs to insert f**king in to every sentence. We do have an unwritten rule on PH where every dealer is out to shaft us, the scummy scumsters, yet we fail to realise that a lot of us work for businesses where we need to make a profit to pay our wages. If the dealer made a loss on every car then they wouldn't be around for us to buy from.

I've experienced the trotting off to the sales manager charade in mainstream cars - less so in premium dealerships. Whether premium dealerships inform their salesstaff better, allow better room for negotiation etc. But even in premium dealerships at least one trip is needed to OK a deal.

I'm happy for salesmen to visit their manager immediately if I've walked in with a Drive The Deal/Carfile/Broadspeed printout. Yes/No/Maybe is all I need. Even with the Maybe a price a couple of hundred close to the broker deal is OK for a local dealership. But it's surprising how defensive some salesmen get when I walk in with a printout.

[daemon]

Motorrad said:

hondansx said:

I wonder how many people - on the flipside - focus on being a good customer? The reality is a car salesperson is in it for themselves; it's a ruthless job. However, they may give a nice bloke a better deal and opt to shaft someone else to compensate. I'd rather go for the former approach rather than assuming you are going into battle.

Good point. That doesn't mean you have to be a roll-over, wet dream of a customer but in a sales situation the most desirable outcome is where everyone's happy with the deal.

+1

THats a salesmans job, to ensure the customer is happy with the deal they got and that the dealership is happy.

And yes, i agree RE: being a good customer - i (a) make an appointment and tell them what car i am coming to see so they can have it ready for a test drive and (b) when i get there i will be up front - can deal today subject to the right deal / wont be dealing for another two weeks / have other cars to view, etc, etc. I will also give them the success parameters - i will deal today if (a) your car is as good as the advert describes it & (b) we can agree on a price for your car / acceptable trade in price for mine.

Any intelligent salesman will know thats a cue to sharpen their pencil and get ready to sell.

And i'll have done my homework up front so i'll know precisely what my target deal is.

[Sheepshanks]

daemon said:

I will also give them the success parameters - i will deal today if (a) your car is as good as the advert describes it & (b) we can agree on a price for your car / acceptable trade in price for mine.

Probably more relevant to new cars but the thing that irks me is it's so not about the car now, it's about finance and other products. And it's no good trying to leave them to discuss later as there's considerable margin in those products which could affect the deal on the car.

[daemon]

Sheepshanks said:

daemon said:

I will also give them the success parameters - i will deal today if (a) your car is as good as the advert describes it & (b) we can agree on a price for your car / acceptable trade in price for mine.

Probably more relevant to new cars but the thing that irks me is it's so not about the car now, it's about finance and other products. And it's no good trying to leave them to discuss later as there's considerable margin in those products which could affect the deal on the car.

I always try to seperate it out into steps - price of their car then price of our car (or just negotiate on price to change), then on finance terms, then on anything else.

We had a Toyota dealership a while ago that went straight from test drive to finance advisor sitting down INSTEAD of the salesman (who just disappeared) to "see what we could afford to pay". She got chased. Not having that. Far too easy to make a crap discount or trade in price disappear into an extra few pounds a month finance.

Maybe you can successfully get a better deal overall if you let them include other products up front but the problem i have with that is that you lose transparency - you take a £500 product to get an extra discount wen you could get the same product on line for £179. But maybe you're better at it than me

[Ari]

vikingaero said:

I've experienced the trotting off to the sales manager charade in mainstream cars - less so in premium dealerships.

There it is again! 'Charade'.

I'm beginning to think that people simply don't understand the meaning of the word so here it is:

charade

ʃəˈrɑːd/Submit

noun

an absurd pretence intended to create a pleasant or respectable appearance.
"talk of unity was nothing more than a charade"
synonyms: farce, pantomime, travesty, mockery, parody, pretence, act, masquerade, sham, fake, false display, show, front, facade; raresimulacrum
"the race for the presidential nomination has been a shameless charade"

You want a discount - bloke (quite understandably) needs to go check with his boss to see what can be done at that moment in time - where is the 'farce, pantomime, travesty, mockery, parody, pretence, act, masquerade, sham, fake, false display, show, front, facade in that?

If people really are still struggling to understand the reasons, can I suggest they actually read the thread? It's been explained numerous times.

[stemll]

It's not a charade if they go once. If they're repeatedly back and forth then it either is a charade or they're incompetent.

In the case of the Mazda my wife bought a couple of weeks ago it was the latter. Saleswoman didn't know the spec, didn't know what colour the demo outside was, wouldn't take no for an answer on GAP (had to "speak to the sales manager" about all of these). If we hadn't known exactly what we wanted there is no way she could have provided the information needed to make a decision. Maybe it was something to do with her admission that she used to work in DFS

When arranging delivery, we got sent someone else's final documents to sign then got yet another GAP quote. She also clearly didn't communicate with the sales manager very well either as he rang after delivery to ask where the service history was on the trade in even though she was told very clearly to presume that it didn't have one (which they can check anyway as Mazda still has this dumb "electronic service book"). I half expected my wife to return home in the wrong car when she went to collect it the dealer was that bad.

[Limpet]

smashy said:

Hey limpet you said to the salesman" provided the price is right im ready to do a deal" wow!! Music is playing no wonder you enjoyed the experience if you had walked out without a car the salesman or dealer principke needs shooting

Not in so many words, but yes it was made clear that we were in a position to go ahead if we could agree on the numbers. We're all busy people, and there's no point wasting each other's time. I wanted to make it clear that I wasn't going to take his best price and go and beat someone else up with it. He's a good bloke, he's invested time and given us loads of help and advice, and I want to give him the business. Equally we've done our research and we know what's out there, so we're not going to pay list price either.

SWMBO had been in earlier in the week on her own while I was at work and the kids at school. She'd asked loads of questions, and had a good long test drive in a nearly new one off the forecourt. By this point, she'd looked at, driven and dismissed a few other kinds of car, and she had made up her mind the Mini was what she wanted. She was upfront about this with the salesman. We weren't going to P/X her Golf but sell it privately, as I knew it would sell easily for good money (3 hrs after the ad hit Autotrader, for a slightly cheeky asking price - a good move, as it turned out)

I'd gone back in with her to have a quick drive of it, and also make sure we could squeeze us and the two kids in if we needed to - a situation that has arisen twice in six months by the way. We'd said if all that worked out, and we could agree on numbers, we'd place an order there and then. We came to an agreement, and we put the deposit down.

Yes I could have taken his numbers and spent days trawling round other dealers and possibly got it a bit lower. Or I could have gone through a broker and maybe saved a couple of quid, but the experience is part of it too. You can have a bit of banter and enjoy the experience without being a pushover, and you can haggle without being a dick about it. We both moved from our starting points and met in the middle. And we had a bit of a laugh doing it. Genuinely enjoyed buying that car.

[Ari]

stemll said:

It's not a charade if they go once. If they're repeatedly back and forth then it either is a charade or they're incompetent.

In the case of the Mazda my wife bought a couple of weeks ago it was the latter. Saleswoman didn't know the spec, didn't know what colour the demo outside was, wouldn't take no for an answer on GAP (had to "speak to the sales manager" about all of these). If we hadn't known exactly what we wanted there is no way she could have provided the information needed to make a decision. Maybe it was something to do with her admission that she used to work in DFS

That's simply incompetence. Probably new to the job and trying to 'muddle through'. Not great if you're one of the guinea pigs being practiced on.

When I started, having never sold cars before (and it is a pretty steep learning curve, although not a difficult job once you understand all the elements), if I got to the third time of having to 'check with the manager' I'd say to him 'I can't keep abandoning these people, can you come out with me and give me some help/support', which he normally did.

That said, I was working at a smallish dealer, it might be quite different at a large dealer where he's maybe having to juggle 12 salesmen.

[Moominator]

daemon said:

I always try to seperate it out into steps - price of their car then price of our car (or just negotiate on price to change), then on finance terms, then on anything else.

We had a Toyota dealership a while ago that went straight from test drive to finance advisor sitting down INSTEAD of the salesman (who just disappeared) to "see what we could afford to pay". She got chased. Not having that. Far too easy to make a crap discount or trade in price disappear into an extra few pounds a month finance.

Maybe you can successfully get a better deal overall if you let them include other products up front but the problem i have with that is that you lose transparency - you take a £500 product to get an extra discount wen you could get the same product on line for £179. But maybe you're better at it than me

I once popped into a local Ford dealer and asked one question about a Fiesta. I was asked to wait 20mins then a manager with an order form called me over to his desk. He then acted taken aback that I was wasting his time. I felt insulted - all I'd said was 'what colours do they come in'

[daemon]

stemll said:

It's not a charade if they go once. If they're repeatedly back and forth then it either is a charade or they're incompetent.

Sometimes thats how sales managers want their staff to work. He gives the salesman a price and they present it to the customer. If the customer wants a further variance then he has to go back to negotiate.

The salesman wont have the authority to discount past a certain point. Thats just life. Dont forget its not an "everything must go at any price" firesale in a dealers - it has to be a deal that flies for both the customer AND the dealership, so if there has to be some negotiation around the parameters of that then so be it.

As i said, its not difficult to get the whole thing done and dusted in an hour or two - including test drive, etc, etc. If you manage to get an extra £1,000 off and the salesman wears a bit of shoe leather off running about then its probably the best paid couple of hours of your life.

[daemon]

Moominator said:

I once popped into a local Ford dealer and asked one question about a Fiesta. I was asked to wait 20mins then a manager with an order form called me over to his desk. He then acted taken aback that I was wasting his time. I felt insulted - all I'd said was 'what colours do they come in'

Thats wholly wrong of him, and i've have pulled him on it. I'd have asked what gave him the impression that even without asking price or knowing if any potential trade in price was agreeable, he expected you just to sign on the line?

[unrepentant]

I sold a new car in 18 minutes last night! They walked through the door at 5.40 (we close at 6), I had never seen or spoken to them before. At 5.58 they signed my buyers order and in that time we'd had a quick presentation (they'd driven one somewhere else), found out what specs they needed, looked at the actual car that they would be getting, agreed a price, calculated a lease, taken a deposit for $5000 in cash, put all their info in the system, completed a credit app, printed up their paperwork and kissed them goodnight. I didn't leave their side once and no manager was involved. We'll submit the app Monday but that won't be an issue and they'll take delivery next week.

I sold an identical car earlier in the day and it took nearly 3 hours.

[Ari]

Moominator said:

I once popped into a local Ford dealer and asked one question about a Fiesta. I was asked to wait 20mins then a manager with an order form called me over to his desk. He then acted taken aback that I was wasting his time. I felt insulted - all I'd said was 'what colours do they come in'

You don't have much luck with car dealers do you.

Interesting it was '20 minutes' again, same as your OP...

Edited by Ari on Sunday 21st February 15:55

[unrepentant]

Ari said:

Moominator said:

I once popped into a local Ford dealer and asked one question about a Fiesta. I was asked to wait 20mins then a manager with an order form called me over to his desk. He then acted taken aback that I was wasting his time. I felt insulted - all I'd said was 'what colours do they come in'

You don't have much luck with car dealers do you.

Interesting it was '20 minutes' again, same as your OP...

Yeah, the word "apocryphal" springs to mind..........

[Sheepshanks]

daemon said:

I always try to seperate it out into steps - price of their car then price of our car (or just negotiate on price to change), then on finance terms, then on anything else.

That's what I generally do but I'm never sure it's the best approach. With the VW we recently bought I made it clear upfront that we wanted the max PCP as we were passing the car it was replacing on to a family member (so also we had no p/x).

Normally half the conversation is the salesman (and various other staff members) trying to sell me finance and me refusing so this time that issue was off the table. I have to say the whole process was much more enjoyable, particularly as I didn't give a toss what the finance figures where (and they changed several times without explanation, including moving from 35 to 36 monthly payments).

[daemon]

Sheepshanks said:

daemon said:

I always try to seperate it out into steps - price of their car then price of our car (or just negotiate on price to change), then on finance terms, then on anything else.

That's what I generally do but I'm never sure it's the best approach. With the VW we recently bought I made it clear upfront that we wanted the max PCP as we were passing the car it was replacing on to a family member (so also we had no p/x).

Normally half the conversation is the salesman (and various other staff members) trying to sell me finance and me refusing so this time that issue was off the table. I have to say the whole process was much more enjoyable, particularly as I didn't give a toss what the finance figures where (and they changed several times without explanation, including moving from 35 to 36 monthly payments).

Yes, PCP deals are the ones of interest - their can be a "finance contribution" in there from the manufacturer, which if you're happy to pay the finance then clear it, then you can get that. But again i try to keep that seperated out.