C63 Estate v 535D Touring

C63 Estate v 535D Touring

Author
Discussion

gizlaroc

17,251 posts

223 months

Friday 12th February 2016
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Ares said:
I don't however see how, in identical cars with identical power, the fuel makes for a dramatic difference when both are mated to an 8sp ZF autobox!
I understand you don't get it, and if you don't then that is fine. But many do think that aural pleasure and extra rev range is worth it.

Just being able to take the twisties and the car staying in 3rd from 30-75mph through the bends rather than it swapping cogs halfway makes a huge difference.

The differences are subtle with an auto 'box, but they are still there.


Ares

11,000 posts

119 months

Friday 12th February 2016
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abarber said:
Ares said:
Intrigued as to how it "left you cold" compared to "really enjoying the drive" of 2 identical cars with a different fuels?

If there was a manual gearbox in there, I'd agree. But when the ZF box is seemless in it's shifts (although moreso in the diesel), I'm struggling to see how two identical cars can be deemed SO different?
So despite a completely different engine, power delivery, gearing, rev range, sound, suspension etc etc, they are identical smile

To me and many others on PH, the engine is at the heart of the car and there is much pleasure to be had listening to a lovely sounding engine and winding it out to 7k. BMW are renowned for their sonorous sixes and the N55 is one of the best.

The 535d has an excellent diesel engine by all accounts, but I got zero pleasure out of driving or listening to it.
Suspension isn't different? and all the other differences are purely down the the engine characteristics (and even the gear ratios are not that different). I agree that the engine is at the heart, but I still can't see how two cars (identical apart from the engine) can be so diametrically different just because of an identically powerful engine (that you can't hear inside the car apart from at the very top of the rev range). Unless it's just 'because' its a diesel.

...or are you saying that an exciting car without it's engine noise is by default dull?

abarber

1,686 posts

240 months

Friday 12th February 2016
quotequote all
gizlaroc said:
I understand you don't get it, and if you don't then that is fine. But many do think that aural pleasure and extra rev range is worth it.

Just being able to take the twisties and the car staying in 3rd from 30-75mph through the bends rather than it swapping cogs halfway makes a huge difference.

The differences are subtle with an auto 'box, but they are still there.
Agreed. If you can't feel the difference, great for you.

The adaptive drive and non m sport suspension also helped on the 535i I drove. I'm not a fan of the ride on M Sport F10s, or at least on the 535d. The ride feels like it's been engineered to feel 'sporty', yet wasn't a particularly agile handler.

Anyway, enough of this one. OP, great look forward to your comments on the C63. You'll love it smile

Ares

11,000 posts

119 months

Friday 12th February 2016
quotequote all
gizlaroc said:
Ares said:
I don't however see how, in identical cars with identical power, the fuel makes for a dramatic difference when both are mated to an 8sp ZF autobox!
I understand you don't get it, and if you don't then that is fine. But many do think that aural pleasure and extra rev range is worth it.

Just being able to take the twisties and the car staying in 3rd from 30-75mph through the bends rather than it swapping cogs halfway makes a huge difference.

The differences are subtle with an auto 'box, but they are still there.
I do get that. But does aural pleasure take a car from exciting to dull? I'd say there was a lot more to it.

If my car sounded like an AMG, it wouldn't make the car demonstrably more exciting.


Ares

11,000 posts

119 months

Friday 12th February 2016
quotequote all
abarber said:
Agreed. If you can't feel the difference, great for you.

The adaptive drive and non m sport suspension also helped on the 535i I drove. I'm not a fan of the ride on M Sport F10s, or at least on the 535d. The ride feels like it's been engineered to feel 'sporty', yet wasn't a particularly agile handler.

Anyway, enough of this one. OP, great look forward to your comments on the C63. You'll love it smile
That makes a lot more sense. Adaptive Drive and the Different suspension will have made a big difference to the car. I've had AC Schnitzer springs put on mine and that alone makes a huge difference to how the car feels and has made it feel more exciting to drive (for an 1800kg lump). The different between Adaptive and Non-Adaptive is hugely noticeable too.

minimatan

13,723 posts

200 months

Friday 12th February 2016
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How about a 545i touring?

philmots

4,630 posts

259 months

Friday 12th February 2016
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Re 535i/d, Just cruising about there's not much difference other than the sound that's better.. Main thing is when you want you can actually rev the engine right out and benefit from it. The diesel just don't have that appeal. My 335d bored me silly.

Monkeylegend

26,226 posts

230 months

Friday 12th February 2016
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Get the Merc, put a 350CDi badge on the back, the wife will never know.

Well mine wouldn't.

Girthsham

62 posts

122 months

Saturday 13th February 2016
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McDonalds or Fillet steak rare with dauphinoise served with a red wine jus.

Really though, I can afford a 535d and considered one but a C63 is what I would like but funds dont allow it currently.

C63 estate for sure.

Yea, C63. Yep. Just do it.

gizlaroc

17,251 posts

223 months

Saturday 13th February 2016
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Has the op answered what age and price point yet?

Is it a cash buy or financed?


It makes a hell of a difference.


Any saving in fuel would probably be wiped out in depreciation going 535d/i.

hufggfg

654 posts

192 months

Saturday 13th February 2016
quotequote all
Ares said:
I do get that. But does aural pleasure take a car from exciting to dull? I'd say there was a lot more to it.

If my car sounded like an AMG, it wouldn't make the car demonstrably more exciting.
For me personally, the sound isn't the most important part, it's the way the power is delivered. A diesel generally gives you a big slug of low down torque, then runs out of puff. A petrol engine is less torquey low down, but then really chases the higher revs, developing ever more torque and becoming more exciting. For me, the nature of a petrol engine means I'll always enjoy driving one vastly more. To be honest, with the new generation of turbo petrol engines, the difference is less stark, but it's still there.

Personally, I prefer a NA petrol that feels almost gutless at bottom end but loves to rev. I don't really want "easily accessible" performance in the way people use the phrase these days. I love cars because I actually enjoy driving, not because I want to just get it out of the way quickly with minimum effort.

AC43

11,435 posts

207 months

Saturday 13th February 2016
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Andshill7 said:
I know it will cost more in fuel, I tend to do around 10k a year but 2.5k of those comes from driving to France in the summer laden with roofbox etc.
Just imagine setting off from the tolls. Every toll from Calais to the Med. The joy of the V8 will never wear off.

As for the arguments about range I really don't get it. If you can kill 300 miles/4hours in one do that's plenty. When I've got my family everyone is happy to stop now and again and go to the loo/get a snack/grab a coffee.

Then you get to give it the beans down the slip road again......



gizlaroc

17,251 posts

223 months

Saturday 13th February 2016
quotequote all
AC43 said:
If you can kill 300 miles/4hours in one ......
Then you need to give yourself a slap and put your foot down a bit! wink

gizlaroc

17,251 posts

223 months

Saturday 13th February 2016
quotequote all
hufggfg said:
For me personally, the sound isn't the most important part, it's the way the power is delivered. A diesel generally gives you a big slug of low down torque, then runs out of puff. A petrol engine is less torquey low down, but then really chases the higher revs, developing ever more torque and becoming more exciting. For me, the nature of a petrol engine means I'll always enjoy driving one vastly more. To be honest, with the new generation of turbo petrol engines, the difference is less stark, but it's still there.

Personally, I prefer a NA petrol that feels almost gutless at bottom end but loves to rev. I don't really want "easily accessible" performance in the way people use the phrase these days. I love cars because I actually enjoy driving, not because I want to just get it out of the way quickly with minimum effort.
Absolutely!!

This shows that there is no difference between them! rolleyes



I was lent a 270hp 330i when I had my 335i, and have to say it was even more fun than the 335i. You had to work it a bit, hence swapping back to an M3 again.

InductionRoar

2,001 posts

131 months

Saturday 13th February 2016
quotequote all
Monkeylegend said:
Get the Merc, put a 350CDi badge on the back, the wife will never know.

Well mine wouldn't.
Is she hard of hearing? hehe

hufggfg

654 posts

192 months

Saturday 13th February 2016
quotequote all
gizlaroc said:
I was lent a 270hp 330i when I had my 335i, and have to say it was even more fun than the 335i. You had to work it a bit, hence swapping back to an M3 again.
Interesting to hear, doesn't surprise me at all. I have a 135i and while its perfectly fast, it sure is dull.

In my opinion, the best power & torque graphs are both pretty much a line from bottom left to top right.

Monkeylegend

26,226 posts

230 months

Saturday 13th February 2016
quotequote all
InductionRoar said:
Monkeylegend said:
Get the Merc, put a 350CDi badge on the back, the wife will never know.

Well mine wouldn't.
Is she hard of hearing? hehe
No, but tends to be very blinkered in what she sees or hears. If I told her the sound of the Merc V8 was actually a diesel, she would believe me. She tends to live in her own little world which can be annoying at times, but it does have it's advantages.




k-ink

9,070 posts

178 months

Saturday 13th February 2016
quotequote all
Soov535 said:
my RS4 had new front pads and discs and it was £2k.
Every time I start thinking about a performance barge these quotes keep me in check! eek

abarber

1,686 posts

240 months

Saturday 13th February 2016
quotequote all
hufggfg said:
gizlaroc said:
I was lent a 270hp 330i when I had my 335i, and have to say it was even more fun than the 335i. You had to work it a bit, hence swapping back to an M3 again.
Interesting to hear, doesn't surprise me at all. I have a 135i and while its perfectly fast, it sure is dull.

In my opinion, the best power & torque graphs are both pretty much a line from bottom left to top right.
Yeah, I had a similar experience. I went to a 330i N52 manual from a 911, after test driving a 335i. I also preferred the 330i. It had a lovely engine note and loved revs. That was an excellent car.

abarber

1,686 posts

240 months

Saturday 13th February 2016
quotequote all
k-ink said:
Soov535 said:
my RS4 had new front pads and discs and it was £2k.
Every time I start thinking about a performance barge these quotes keep me in check! eek
Fortunately, if you are willing to stay away from a main dealer, C63 non-PP Front disks can be had quite cheaply. From < £100 each from ECP. Rears are much cheaper again.

Check that they are needed though, it's very common for dealers to try and charge to replace disks at aren't even half worn! My local Merc dealer tried this scam at the last service. B'stards!


Edited by abarber on Saturday 13th February 16:11