C63 Estate v 535D Touring
Discussion
I feel your pain. I had several phone calls with a merc dealer two weeks ago about a c63 estate. I decide to call back and place a deposite. It was apparently sold. Next day it was up for more money.
I wish you luck in your search. Since I test drove one it is a must have now.
I wish you luck in your search. Since I test drove one it is a must have now.
Andshill7 said:
Well I finally found the car I wanted. After getting the all important approval from the boss, I placed a deposit on a lovely palladium silver C63 with black wheels - my #1 choice (from GC motors in Harrogate). Placed a £2k deposit on it and was all excited to collect the thing next week... until I got a phone call about 1.5hrs later to say that they had made a mistake and already taken a deposit on it before I did.
Considering that the sales exec had to speak to the manager to approve the deal I had agreed, I really don't believe this. My feeling is that they probably got a better offer and took it. Gutted!
So now I'm back to square one in trying to find my c63!!
Considering that the sales exec had to speak to the manager to approve the deal I had agreed, I really don't believe this. My feeling is that they probably got a better offer and took it. Gutted!
So now I'm back to square one in trying to find my c63!!
Jamesgt said:
I feel your pain. I had several phone calls with a merc dealer two weeks ago about a c63 estate. I decide to call back and place a deposite. It was apparently sold. Next day it was up for more money.
I wish you luck in your search. Since I test drove one it is a must have now.
Wasn't the one at Blackpool was it? I wish you luck in your search. Since I test drove one it is a must have now.
gizlaroc said:
Wasn't the one at Blackpool was it?
No. This was one just outside London. I knew the price was too low. When the girl from merc told me it was sold I asked her if she was lying to cover a mistake made with the price. She told me it was priced low to sell before the new plates came out in March. Rubbish! The search is frustrating. There is only one facelift estate under £30k with decent mileage on Auto T and it's had a new engine so I'm put off that.
Jamesgt said:
No. This was one just outside London. I knew the price was too low. When the girl from merc told me it was sold I asked her if she was lying to cover a mistake made with the price. She told me it was priced low to sell before the new plates came out in March. Rubbish!
The search is frustrating. There is only one facelift estate under £30k with decent mileage on Auto T and it's had a new engine so I'm put off that.
There was a 13 plate on a Blackpool, this was on the weekend where they were offering 0% APR on used C Classes and 2 years worth of servicing. The search is frustrating. There is only one facelift estate under £30k with decent mileage on Auto T and it's had a new engine so I'm put off that.
The C63 Estate had all the right options, was in Tenorite Grey with Porcelain leather and had 21k miles on it, it was £31k.
I said rather than a discount could I have 2 years warranty, so I had two years worth of servicing and warranty. They said yeah to this.
I asked if they would take a 59 plate ML350 off me, and said I would give them a deposit, he said don't worry about that lets sort the part ex price out.
Didn't get a call back that day, called the next day and they were all busy, then on Monday it disappeared. I never got my calls answered and a few days later it was back on at £34k.
It was the fact no one would speak to me that annoyed the most.
So it seems I'm not alone then. There were quite a few on Autotrader and PH classified a while ago but there's not much choice right now. Just hoping some come available soon, as like one of the previous comments said, once you test drive one, it's all you want! In fact I can't stop thinking about it. just hope this doesn't too long haha.
Wills2 said:
Ares said:
abarber said:
Ares said:
They do drive different. But as both are mated to an autobox, the notion of 'press the go pedal, go quite fast, slow down, repeat.' is horse s
t. You press the pedal and just go, and go, and go, and go. The diesel drives a lot better with the 8sp ZF box and is a lot smoother in its drive. The petrol creates a jerkier gearshift and is often left hunting for the right gear, or having to drop too many gears and leaving the drive 'jolt-ier'.
The 640i is inferior in every way to the 640d except engine note. I can't see the 5 being any different.
But that notwithstanding, the petrol is no less boring than the diesel, or vice versa.
I really enjoyed driving the 535i. The N55 with the ZA 8 speed gearbox is a great combination. The one I drove was a non-msport model with adaptive drive, which really helped the ride. A lovely sonorous engine note too and a pleasure to keep signing along. I'm afraid the 535d left me pretty cold. t. You press the pedal and just go, and go, and go, and go. The diesel drives a lot better with the 8sp ZF box and is a lot smoother in its drive. The petrol creates a jerkier gearshift and is often left hunting for the right gear, or having to drop too many gears and leaving the drive 'jolt-ier'. The 640i is inferior in every way to the 640d except engine note. I can't see the 5 being any different.
But that notwithstanding, the petrol is no less boring than the diesel, or vice versa.
Each to their own
If there was a manual gearbox in there, I'd agree. But when the ZF box is seemless in it's shifts (although moreso in the diesel), I'm struggling to see how two identical cars can be deemed SO different?
And yes the 335d left me cold, boring, boring, boring....
But take two identical cars, both with 3.0l c320bhp Engines, both with the same bearly detectable ZF gearbox/suspension/etc, I don't believe that one would be great whilst the other would be dreadful (oil prejudice aside).
Ares said:
With M3 and 335d the cars are totally different.
But take two identical cars, both with 3.0l c320bhp Engines, both with the same bearly detectable ZF gearbox/suspension/etc, I don't believe that one would be great whilst the other would be dreadful (oil prejudice aside).
You keep saying that. You really do need to try them both. But take two identical cars, both with 3.0l c320bhp Engines, both with the same bearly detectable ZF gearbox/suspension/etc, I don't believe that one would be great whilst the other would be dreadful (oil prejudice aside).
Some of the running costs figures people are coming up with are eye-opening.
Mine isn't German but definitely in the same ballpark.
My 5.0litre s/c V8 saloon car returns 21mpg with both me and my wife driving is with some enthusiasm. It's not 40mpg, but it's 40% better than the 15mpg some people are quoting these big V8s average.
We had to replace the rear tyres at around 10,000 miles. The fronts are done now and need replacement at 19,000 miles.
The brake pad warning light just came on too, so I've checked out the price of brakes. OEM front pads are £150+VAT, and rears are £100+VAT. Only the rears need done - the fronts have a good 9mm of meat left on them, and the discs are barely tickled.
Either Audis are laughably expensive to run to give the same result as similar competitors, or the contributor with the B7 RS4 had his pants pulled down by a dealer.
Insurance for ours costs less than £20 difference than the rest of our private car insurance policies cost (2 drivers, both clean licenses, full NCD, AA rated post code, S,D+C and 10k miles p.a.)
So in conclusion, the AMG will probably use a bit more fuel than a big diesel, cost twice as much in VED, but will depreciate a bit less.
I honestly think running cost figures are just warped on these threads to make the big engine petrol cars look worse than they are to help people who aren't driving the cars they really want think they've made the right choice every time they get in to their car and the oil burner clatters itself awake.
Mine isn't German but definitely in the same ballpark.
My 5.0litre s/c V8 saloon car returns 21mpg with both me and my wife driving is with some enthusiasm. It's not 40mpg, but it's 40% better than the 15mpg some people are quoting these big V8s average.
We had to replace the rear tyres at around 10,000 miles. The fronts are done now and need replacement at 19,000 miles.
The brake pad warning light just came on too, so I've checked out the price of brakes. OEM front pads are £150+VAT, and rears are £100+VAT. Only the rears need done - the fronts have a good 9mm of meat left on them, and the discs are barely tickled.
Either Audis are laughably expensive to run to give the same result as similar competitors, or the contributor with the B7 RS4 had his pants pulled down by a dealer.
Insurance for ours costs less than £20 difference than the rest of our private car insurance policies cost (2 drivers, both clean licenses, full NCD, AA rated post code, S,D+C and 10k miles p.a.)
So in conclusion, the AMG will probably use a bit more fuel than a big diesel, cost twice as much in VED, but will depreciate a bit less.
I honestly think running cost figures are just warped on these threads to make the big engine petrol cars look worse than they are to help people who aren't driving the cars they really want think they've made the right choice every time they get in to their car and the oil burner clatters itself awake.
mark.c said:
that's a very nice example for the age. thank you for this. But the model I'm after is 2012+ Palladium silver / grey / black, black AMG 19 wheels and less than 30,000 miles if poss. I think this is the reason I'm still looking cheers,
Andrew
gizlaroc said:
Ares said:
With M3 and 335d the cars are totally different.
But take two identical cars, both with 3.0l c320bhp Engines, both with the same bearly detectable ZF gearbox/suspension/etc, I don't believe that one would be great whilst the other would be dreadful (oil prejudice aside).
You keep saying that. You really do need to try them both. But take two identical cars, both with 3.0l c320bhp Engines, both with the same bearly detectable ZF gearbox/suspension/etc, I don't believe that one would be great whilst the other would be dreadful (oil prejudice aside).
Ares said:
I have. Several times. Including when I was testing back to back to buy one...hence my bemusement. The engines have different characteristics, which are mostly nullified by the ZF box, but one car is not dramatically different to drive - it wouldn't be, they are the same cars/set-up/etc.
They feel very different to drive. The 335d has loads of shove from the off, a massive surge of power that climbs for 2500rpm and then dies off very slightly before the gear change and it happens again.
The 335i doesn't have any where near as much shove from the off, in fact is probably a bit too smooth, too refined, too laid back for many on here, and if you let the gearbox do its thing it changes gear at 3000rpm, and you waft up the road, it is quick, but very linear and the sensation of speed is not there.
Compared to the M3 and my mapped 535d where my wife was always telling me to slow down I could drive the 335i almost as quickly without a peep being said.
The thing is that is not what the 335i is about, in many ways it is similar to many NA petrols, ultra refined and smooth, almost boring, when pottering around, and only comes to life when you start to hold it in its sweet spot, keep it between 3000-7000rpm and it feels like a completely different car, the higher the rpms the lighter and more nimble it feels, the engine starts to come on song and the whole thing just keeps pulling and pulling, by 5000rpm you expect it to drop off, but it doesn't, it keeps going, 5500rpm keeps going, 6000rpm still more, 6500rpm still more right up to where it falls off just before 7000rpm, it then drops back to 3500rpm where it starts all over again.
The constant increase in torque compared to the massive peak at the start which then slowly drops off across the rev range on the 335d is what makes the 335i, and many NA petrols so much more entertaining for many. I do get however, that many are more impressed with that low end shove of a big diesel, for trying to keep yourself entertained on a motorway it makes sense.
Personally though I prefer a car that is as refined as possible when pottering around, and then something that has to be worked a bit and revved out when I want to have fun.
As much as I have enjoyed my 3 litre diesel Merc estate, a 3.5 litre V6 petrol came on the market on Saturday, and I went to see it today, let's just say the diesel will be up for sale very shortly.
Both of them are 3 litre merc estates, both have the 7g gearbox, and by your reckoning they should feel the same, but they are so different it is untrue, hence the petrol had to be bought.
Oh, and on the test drive petrol is around 4mpg behind the diesel, for me doing 12k miles a year that is £6 a week difference at the pump. A small price to pay.
gizlaroc said:
Ares said:
I have. Several times. Including when I was testing back to back to buy one...hence my bemusement. The engines have different characteristics, which are mostly nullified by the ZF box, but one car is not dramatically different to drive - it wouldn't be, they are the same cars/set-up/etc.
They feel very different to drive. The 335d has loads of shove from the off, a massive surge of power that climbs for 2500rpm and then dies off very slightly before the gear change and it happens again.
The 335i doesn't have any where near as much shove from the off, in fact is probably a bit too smooth, too refined, too laid back for many on here, and if you let the gearbox do its thing it changes gear at 3000rpm, and you waft up the road, it is quick, but very linear and the sensation of speed is not there.
Compared to the M3 and my mapped 535d where my wife was always telling me to slow down I could drive the 335i almost as quickly without a peep being said.
The thing is that is not what the 335i is about, in many ways it is similar to many NA petrols, ultra refined and smooth, almost boring, when pottering around, and only comes to life when you start to hold it in its sweet spot, keep it between 3000-7000rpm and it feels like a completely different car, the higher the rpms the lighter and more nimble it feels, the engine starts to come on song and the whole thing just keeps pulling and pulling, by 5000rpm you expect it to drop off, but it doesn't, it keeps going, 5500rpm keeps going, 6000rpm still more, 6500rpm still more right up to where it falls off just before 7000rpm, it then drops back to 3500rpm where it starts all over again.
The constant increase in torque compared to the massive peak at the start which then slowly drops off across the rev range on the 335d is what makes the 335i, and many NA petrols so much more entertaining for many. I do get however, that many are more impressed with that low end shove of a big diesel, for trying to keep yourself entertained on a motorway it makes sense.
Personally though I prefer a car that is as refined as possible when pottering around, and then something that has to be worked a bit and revved out when I want to have fun.
As much as I have enjoyed my 3 litre diesel Merc estate, a 3.5 litre V6 petrol came on the market on Saturday, and I went to see it today, let's just say the diesel will be up for sale very shortly.
Both of them are 3 litre merc estates, both have the 7g gearbox, and by your reckoning they should feel the same, but they are so different it is untrue, hence the petrol had to be bought.
Oh, and on the test drive petrol is around 4mpg behind the diesel, for me doing 12k miles a year that is £6 a week difference at the pump. A small price to pay.
Your comments on the BMW 335d/335i are valid.... The low down shove is more noticeable with the oil burner, but with the gearbox, and once on the go, the difference in negligible. But that notwithstanding, the car is identical. Perhaps for some, the only thing that makes a car is the fuel and the fact that the imperceptible gear change happens at 6.5k rather than 4.5k, but for me, the fun aspect of the car (especially cars that have more power than you can realistically use more than 25% of the time), is way way more than the engine.
Example, I had the suspension done on my car, it has made it a LOT more fun. Feel/Ride/Grip, all have (for me) a far bigger impact on 'fun' than modest engine characteristics.
I fully get why people dislike diesels. Most are noisy, slow and peaky. I fully get the preference for petrol for most cars. I just don't accept, from experience, that two identical cars, with near identical engines in, can be absolute poles apart in terms of fun - all based on direct experience!
Ares said:
I just don't accept, from experience, that two identical cars, with near identical engines in, can be absolute poles apart in terms of fun - all based on direct experience!
I agree with you. If all else is equal the engine doesn't make a wholesale difference to this sort of car - assuming either fuel type is similar in ultimate foot-to-the-floor-and-keep-it-there performance. People can have a preference either way and that's fine - but I'm with you all the way that one fuel type can't be boring whilst the other is exciting. A difference in power delivery characteristics isn't so much more important than everything else out together to make such a big swing in the overall impression of the car IMHO.I did and still back the AMG, but as per my own post slightly earlier, the difference in driver enjoyment between the average diesel cooking model and the halo model is usually much deeper than just a big V8.
gizlaroc said:
There was a 13 plate on a Blackpool, this was on the weekend where they were offering 0% APR on used C Classes and 2 years worth of servicing.
The C63 Estate had all the right options, was in Tenorite Grey with Porcelain leather and had 21k miles on it, it was £31k.
I said rather than a discount could I have 2 years warranty, so I had two years worth of servicing and warranty. They said yeah to this.
I asked if they would take a 59 plate ML350 off me, and said I would give them a deposit, he said don't worry about that lets sort the part ex price out.
Didn't get a call back that day, called the next day and they were all busy, then on Monday it disappeared. I never got my calls answered and a few days later it was back on at £34k.
It was the fact no one would speak to me that annoyed the most.
How frustrating. Pretty similar to my story from a few weeks ago. Just when you've found the right car they start playing games. The C63 Estate had all the right options, was in Tenorite Grey with Porcelain leather and had 21k miles on it, it was £31k.
I said rather than a discount could I have 2 years warranty, so I had two years worth of servicing and warranty. They said yeah to this.
I asked if they would take a 59 plate ML350 off me, and said I would give them a deposit, he said don't worry about that lets sort the part ex price out.
Didn't get a call back that day, called the next day and they were all busy, then on Monday it disappeared. I never got my calls answered and a few days later it was back on at £34k.
It was the fact no one would speak to me that annoyed the most.
I'm really struggling to find an Estate C63 of the spec that I want. I have £35k to spend and after this https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=...
Hopefully that link works? It is a Palladium silver c63 with the black AMG wheels. Love it!! I want a 2013> and under 30,000 miles. Now that I have the green light to buy, there's nothing out there! Typical heh! :|
Anyone know any other sites to search other than AT and PH?
oh, and after driving a good petrol engine again after 10 years of diesels, I can't wait to leave the oil burners behind.
All the best,
Andrew
Hopefully that link works? It is a Palladium silver c63 with the black AMG wheels. Love it!! I want a 2013> and under 30,000 miles. Now that I have the green light to buy, there's nothing out there! Typical heh! :|
Anyone know any other sites to search other than AT and PH?
oh, and after driving a good petrol engine again after 10 years of diesels, I can't wait to leave the oil burners behind.
All the best,
Andrew
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