Private car sale - being taken to court
Discussion
Good evening all, I'm after a little advise on the above issue.
But first allow me to set the scene.
My girlfriend recently sold her car (Ford S-Max, 58 plate) in September last year as a private sale. She advertised the car on Ebay and someone offered us a cash amount which we accepted. Please see below the advert.
Ford S-Max for sale in black, selling due to being given a new company car.
17" alloy wheels
rear tinted windows as standard
new 12 month MOT with not a single advisory
valeted inside and out
all tyres have excellent tread left
new clutch
new CAM belt
just over 101,000 miles on the clock
excellent car in excellent condition
radio will require resetting but unfortunately I don't have it
Anyway.. the buyer was provided with all receipts for the work which we stated, did a thorough check of the car and refused a test drive, paid the cash and drove off.
The next day I had a text saying that the car was blowing black smoke on acceleration, engine management light was on and the car was leaking oil. I stated that I was not aware of any such faults (which I genuinely wasn't) and came to the view that he was trying it on to get more money out of me. Based on this I politely informed him that the car was sold in good faith and that I would not be doing anything to assist him.
After a week or so I was informed that he would be taking the car to get it health checked, a week after this we had the results where he stated that there was an issue with the turbo, one of the rear springs, and that the car was leaking oil
Anyway... a few weeks later the buyer informed me that unless I paid him £1500 to rectify the faults, he would be taking me to court (which we have now got to the allocation hearing next month).
Anyway a few interesting points:
The buyer thoroughly looked over the car and refused a test drive
When we had the MOT done, which did not pick up any faults whatsoever, the car did 100 yards back to her house where it waited on our drive until it was sold (the same mileage was on the MOT as was on the log book when the car was sold proving the car had not done any mileage since its MOT)
Firstly the buyer claimed that there was black smoke was coming out of the exhaust, however he then changed his story to misrepresentation now that his original claim isn't going to stand up as the health check picked no issues up with the emissions.
The buyer has stated that my GF (who owns the car) must have known about the faults, yet a qualified mechanic who did the MOT picked up nothing before the car was sold. However he drove the car 344 miles before getting the health check done.
He stated that the car had been off the road more than it had been on it and that it was unsafe to drive, yet he had done 705 miles before having the spring changed and 918 miles before having a new turbo fitted. Surely if he had such grave concerns about its safety he wouldn't have driven this distance on it.
I believe that my GF (who has absolutely no mechanical knowledge at all) as the private seller did everything she needed to do legally by making sure the car was hers to sell, she did not misinterpret the car, and made sure it was roadworthy before selling it.
His only argument now which is what has come through in the court documents, is that my GF misrepresented the car by statin "excellent car in excellent condition", to me this is her subjective opinion of a 58 plate car with over 100000 miles on the clock, she made sure if was fully roadworthy and professionally valeted before selling, in her opinion it was an "excellent car in excellent condition" (it certainly had been for her in the time she had owned it)
Any thoughts would be most welcome, what she be doing next, what do we thing her chances are?
Kind regards
Mookes
But first allow me to set the scene.
My girlfriend recently sold her car (Ford S-Max, 58 plate) in September last year as a private sale. She advertised the car on Ebay and someone offered us a cash amount which we accepted. Please see below the advert.
Ford S-Max for sale in black, selling due to being given a new company car.
17" alloy wheels
rear tinted windows as standard
new 12 month MOT with not a single advisory
valeted inside and out
all tyres have excellent tread left
new clutch
new CAM belt
just over 101,000 miles on the clock
excellent car in excellent condition
radio will require resetting but unfortunately I don't have it
Anyway.. the buyer was provided with all receipts for the work which we stated, did a thorough check of the car and refused a test drive, paid the cash and drove off.
The next day I had a text saying that the car was blowing black smoke on acceleration, engine management light was on and the car was leaking oil. I stated that I was not aware of any such faults (which I genuinely wasn't) and came to the view that he was trying it on to get more money out of me. Based on this I politely informed him that the car was sold in good faith and that I would not be doing anything to assist him.
After a week or so I was informed that he would be taking the car to get it health checked, a week after this we had the results where he stated that there was an issue with the turbo, one of the rear springs, and that the car was leaking oil
Anyway... a few weeks later the buyer informed me that unless I paid him £1500 to rectify the faults, he would be taking me to court (which we have now got to the allocation hearing next month).
Anyway a few interesting points:
The buyer thoroughly looked over the car and refused a test drive
When we had the MOT done, which did not pick up any faults whatsoever, the car did 100 yards back to her house where it waited on our drive until it was sold (the same mileage was on the MOT as was on the log book when the car was sold proving the car had not done any mileage since its MOT)
Firstly the buyer claimed that there was black smoke was coming out of the exhaust, however he then changed his story to misrepresentation now that his original claim isn't going to stand up as the health check picked no issues up with the emissions.
The buyer has stated that my GF (who owns the car) must have known about the faults, yet a qualified mechanic who did the MOT picked up nothing before the car was sold. However he drove the car 344 miles before getting the health check done.
He stated that the car had been off the road more than it had been on it and that it was unsafe to drive, yet he had done 705 miles before having the spring changed and 918 miles before having a new turbo fitted. Surely if he had such grave concerns about its safety he wouldn't have driven this distance on it.
I believe that my GF (who has absolutely no mechanical knowledge at all) as the private seller did everything she needed to do legally by making sure the car was hers to sell, she did not misinterpret the car, and made sure it was roadworthy before selling it.
His only argument now which is what has come through in the court documents, is that my GF misrepresented the car by statin "excellent car in excellent condition", to me this is her subjective opinion of a 58 plate car with over 100000 miles on the clock, she made sure if was fully roadworthy and professionally valeted before selling, in her opinion it was an "excellent car in excellent condition" (it certainly had been for her in the time she had owned it)
Any thoughts would be most welcome, what she be doing next, what do we thing her chances are?
Kind regards
Mookes
Edited by Mookes on Friday 12th February 20:19
Edited by Mookes on Friday 12th February 20:22
Interupting Eastenders, but do a search. Recent one was quattrodave ??? Reply letter in the thread.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=155...
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=155...
Edited by MDMA . on Friday 12th February 20:23
MDMA . said:
Interupting Eastenders, but do a search. Recent one was quattrodave ??? Reply letter in the thread.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=155...
Thanks MDMA, very useful.http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=155...
Edited by MDMA . on Friday 12th February 20:23
I cant even see how she has misrepresented the car by describing it as "excellent car in excellent condition" surely this is subjective and not factual. She has no mechanical knowledge in the slightest. Surely this is just puffery?
Bungleaio said:
Go along to court and be 100% confident that you will win. There is no comeback for buyers for private sales.
Just be warned the buyer may take things into their own hands for recompense, which is obviously completely illegal. Have you got CCTV at home?
We are very confident, we have an MOT which was done (no advisory's) drove the car back 100 yards to her house and then it was sold. ridiculous really that it has got this far.Just be warned the buyer may take things into their own hands for recompense, which is obviously completely illegal. Have you got CCTV at home?
She has recently had a letter for her allocation which states that she needs to attend to consider the claimant's indication that expert evidence is needed?
Always better (imo) to advertise a car factually.
eg,
Ford Focus 1600
White
Black interior
36,000 miles
Spare wheel unused
2 owners
Full service history.
Any inspection welcome
£xxxx
That way, there is no possibility that some fool can claim it was "misrepresented".
Have your day in court, I'm pretty sure you will win.
People buy cars privately because they want to avoid the dealers mark up (naturally)but by doing so they have to understand do not get safeguards and warranty that a reputable dealer has to offer by law.
eg,
Ford Focus 1600
White
Black interior
36,000 miles
Spare wheel unused
2 owners
Full service history.
Any inspection welcome
£xxxx
That way, there is no possibility that some fool can claim it was "misrepresented".
Have your day in court, I'm pretty sure you will win.
People buy cars privately because they want to avoid the dealers mark up (naturally)but by doing so they have to understand do not get safeguards and warranty that a reputable dealer has to offer by law.
He's obviously got time and money to waste. I can appreciate your initial concern but there is no way his claims can stand up, especially if what you're saying about the mileage he's covered in the interim is true. I hesitate to use the word extortion but that sounds very much like what he's trying to do.
Relax and if you do have a day in court, enjoy watching him squirm.
Relax and if you do have a day in court, enjoy watching him squirm.
DrSteveBrule said:
He's obviously got time and money to waste. I can appreciate your initial concern but there is no way his claims can stand up, especially if what you're saying about the mileage he's covered in the interim is true. I hesitate to use the word extortion but that sounds very much like what he's trying to do.
Relax and if you do have a day in court, enjoy watching him squirm.
Absolutely agree with you, there are way to many inconsistencies in his story, I guess we will find out on the 18th March, I will certainly keep the thread updated. Lets just hope it goes my GF's way. One thing is for sure though, she wont cave in lolRelax and if you do have a day in court, enjoy watching him squirm.
Wacky Racer said:
Always better (imo) to advertise a car factually.
eg,
Ford Focus 1600
White
Black interior
36,000 miles
Spare wheel unused
2 owners
Full service history.
Any inspection welcome
£xxxx
That way, there is no possibility that some fool can claim it was "misrepresented".
Have your day in court, I'm pretty sure you will win.
People buy cars privately because they want to avoid the dealers mark up (naturally)but by doing so they have to understand do not get safeguards and warranty that a reputable dealer has to offer by law.
Thiseg,
Ford Focus 1600
White
Black interior
36,000 miles
Spare wheel unused
2 owners
Full service history.
Any inspection welcome
£xxxx
That way, there is no possibility that some fool can claim it was "misrepresented".
Have your day in court, I'm pretty sure you will win.
People buy cars privately because they want to avoid the dealers mark up (naturally)but by doing so they have to understand do not get safeguards and warranty that a reputable dealer has to offer by law.
A good car will sell itself through facts and history.
Ozzie Osmond said:
Normally on a private sale there should be nothing to worry about. However, the words in the ad'
"excellent car in excellent condition"
may come back to haunt you if the buyer can show they were untrue.
Yes I see what your saying, however wouldn't the seller have to prove that my GF knew about the faults to be able to back this up. After all she has no mechanical knowledge and an MOT backing up that the car was completely roadworthy with no advisory's. When the MOT was complete there were 101429 miles on the clock, it was then driven 100 yards back to her house and then sold, mileage on the V5C when sold was also 101429."excellent car in excellent condition"
may come back to haunt you if the buyer can show they were untrue.
The Spruce goose said:
'£1500 to rectify the faults'
What are the list of faults to back up his misrepresentation claim.
I don't have the letter to hand at the moment, but it was something like:What are the list of faults to back up his misrepresentation claim.
250 on new spring (drove 705 miles before getting it changed)
450 turbo (drove 918 miles before getting this changed)
400 labour charges
66 health check
87 ford report
105 to hire a car for a week when this car was off the road
120 loss of a days earnings
vikingaero said:
There's been a few surprising threads on MoneySavingExpert where people have been taken to Court for a faulty car/motorhome and what we think is sold as seen/buyer beware isn't true in a Court of Law.
Probably explains why so many people are willing to punt their car to WBAC.
I was under the understanding that "sold as seen" indeed has no basis in law. However buyer beware "caveat emptor" is still a legal defence. It was when I watched judge Rinder a few weeks ago anyway.Probably explains why so many people are willing to punt their car to WBAC.
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