Is the non premium badged family saloon dead?

[rongagin]

SlimJim16v said:

Perceived image is now all important. A German badge or something big and tall, makes people feel self important.

You are easily pleased if that is all it takes for you to "feel self important".

Or are you saying your above that kind of thinking, but looking down on others who you judge to have low self-esteem?

[Wacky Racer]

daemon said:

Wacky Racer said:

I think the concept of the three box car is on the way out. Many people, (not all obviously) want practicality these days, to be able to put say a chest of drawers or a new washing machine in the back, via the hatchback.

You do know that mondeos and insignias are hatchbacks?

I wasn't referring to any specific car, just a family saloon with a traditional boot.

I have had two new Insignias, so yes, I do know they are hatchbacks....

[craigjm]

knitware said:

craigjm said:

Many families these days carry all manner of ste that our parents wouldn't have dreamed of needing in their Cortinas and Allegros.

Yup, like child seats. I used to slide all over the back of the Toyota Crown in 1978 but fast forward to 2016 and you need large rear seats and wide open doors to lift in and buckle up children. A large boot, with flat loading area, to place the modern Silver Cross.

Exactly. I remember playing with my cars in the boot of my dads Hillman Hunter estate. No seat belts nothing let alone a child's seat.

[RacingPete]

I have just had a third child and thus was looking before Christmas for a car that could get 3 children in car seats in the back. Didn't want to go down the crossover/SVU route, but was surprised at modern saloons and the size of the middle seat these days. Not a single BMW (except the 2 series) has enough space, the 5 series being around 13cm space in the middle between the seatbelts. With new safety equipment these cars are just not 5 seaters anymore and the SUVs are.

Oh, and I went for an Octavia Estate in the end.

[grantone]

The current generation Mazda 6 saloon gets good reviews, has a reasonably low list price and is available with sizable discounts according to the Broadspeed website.

Though not saloons, Skoda has maybe picked up some of the traditional buyers for similar Ford & Vauxhall products with the Superb & Octavia?

[SlimJim16v]

rongagin said:

SlimJim16v said:

Perceived image is now all important. A German badge or something big and tall, makes people feel self important.

You are easily pleased if that is all it takes for you to "feel self important".

Or are you saying your above that kind of thinking, but looking down on others who you judge to have low self-esteem?

Nope, I'm not interested in those silly image games. I do laugh at those who are obviously "I've got a BMerc XTZiii 6000", it's usually diesel too.

[rongagin]

SlimJim16v said:

Nope, I'm not interested in those silly image games. I do laugh at those who are obviously "I've got a BMerc XTZiii 6000", it's usually diesel too.

So it is the second, you consider yourself better than the folk you laugh at? Is it "obviously" that maybe they just like the car and it is German? Maybe they also drove say Italian, would that make them laughable too?

I wonder how you can mind-read and judge so well?

[SlimJim16v]

I like to think I'm a good judge of character, although nobody's perfect.

Take all the people driving around in Porsches, Lambos etc. Are they all petrolheads and on this forum? Nope, it's all about the image.

[daemon]

Wacky Racer said:

daemon said:

Wacky Racer said:

I think the concept of the three box car is on the way out. Many people, (not all obviously) want practicality these days, to be able to put say a chest of drawers or a new washing machine in the back, via the hatchback.

You do know that mondeos and insignias are hatchbacks?

I wasn't referring to any specific car, just a family saloon with a traditional boot.

I have had two new Insignias, so yes, I do know they are hatchbacks....

Cool. Glad it didnt come as a surprise then, given you owned two.

It could be argued that the family saloon does still exist - BMW 3 series, Merc C, Audi A4. They seem to be the vehicles of choice in suburbia.

Edited by daemon on Saturday 13th February 10:19

[daemon]

dme123 said:

bristolracer said:

I was following a new shape Astra the other day and thinking how few you see these days.

Once upon a time they were every other car.

I watched some mouth breather get out of one earlier, having parked it right in the middle of a two car space on a very busy street. I thought much the same thing, but my thought was "what percentage of these are actually bought privately?". I bet it's about 25% at the most. Must be even lower for the Insignia.

I think the 0% finance and the PCP deals that Vauxhall push probably sell Astras and Corsas into private buyers.

Insignias - must be predominantly fleet new.

[daemon]

danlightbulb said:

slk 32 said:

I'd always put this down to people using PCP /leasing a lot more now and premium brands having better residuals so essentially you can get more for your money. A lot of people seem to want to change every 2 years to upgrade to the latest metal

How does this make sense from a supply demand point of view? Premium brand BMWs and Audis are more common than mondeos now so the residuals should surely drop as there is so much supply.

Its all plate spinning and at some point its going to crash.

Having said that, for all the perception of "residual values", you can buy a 3 year old, reasonable miles current model 320d M Sport for under £15K

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...

Trade price on that must be around £13K, which is fairly crap for a car with a list price of £33K (although you can get fairly heavy discounts)

[daemon]

irocfan said:

being a little thick here - but if the cheapest way to buy/use is via a pcp or pch then who the hell buys the used ones? Surely the whole thing is unsustainable?

New cars are predominantly bought with PCP / lease for people people who are happy to budget monthly and dont really care about ownership.

Buying used, people will probably use a straight finance deal, with a view to own it.

[R8VXF]

craigjm said:

Exactly. I remember playing with my cars in the boot of my dads Hillman Hunter estate. No seat belts nothing let alone a child's seat.

I remember 13 of us fitting in my dads lwb Landy

[daemon]

SlimJim16v said:

I like to think I'm a good judge of character, although nobody's perfect.

Take all the people driving around in Porsches, Lambos etc. Are they all petrolheads and on this forum? Nope, it's all about the image.

I would say a high percentage of them are car enthusiasts.

[Hub]

Saloon cars just aren't that practical with narrow opening boot, non folding rear seats in some cases etc. That said we seem to be the only country that doesn't love them - go anywhere else and they all drive around in the saloon versions of hatchbacks we have here (which mostly look worse as well!)

[Pints]

Very few saloon options in the C-segment. Most sit in the VAG group (Jetta, A3, Toledo). Or there's the Mazda 3 Fastback.
I didn't want the "sit up and beg" of the typical alternatives for a family car, so opted for the Fastback.

[SlimJim16v]

Compare the current 3 series BMW to the original, it's huge, so don't say there's not enough space.

[bobbo89]

Nissan seem to think so and have done since 2006 when they released the Qashqai and stopped production of both the Almera and Primera.

Since then Quashqai's are everywhere and other manufacturers have followed suit.

[romeogolf]

I'd assume the PCP/Lease market has dictated this. The German brands are seen as more desirable so hold their value better. This makes them more cost effective than Ford/Vauxhall, despite the higher sticker price, for a new purchase.

As others have said, the premium marques are changing their product to offer more non-saloon vehicles (although Audi have introduced the A3 saloon and Mercedes the CLA). I'd say the saloon shape is premium in itself against a hatchback so a buyer looking for premium/premium image rather than versatility would go for that. But if you're buying new and don't care for the premium image, then there's no need for a saloon - May as well get a Qashqai (Nissan don't even so a saloon) or Mokka for the "fun and urban" image and added practicality and comfort of a raised driving position.

[GreenArrow]

A lot of people say that a three box car doesn't work any more due to all the paraphanalia, people take with them, but your average family hatch/saloon has plenty of room inside. My decade old Mk1 Mazda 6 was able to fit a dismantled 10 ft trampoline in the boot, plus the four of us last year (just) and I am not convinced cars like the Qashquai are actually all that roomy inside...the only small crossover that has arrived recently offering decent packing is the Honda HR-V. Based on the commodious Honda Jazz, I would certainly consider something like that as family wheels....