Z3 prices in 2016 (vs Z4 prices...)
Discussion
Nothing seems to have changed in recent years (at least as far as I can detect) in terms of how the Z3 is regarded by PHers or indeed Joe Public. By 'how the Z3 is regarded' I am ofcourse referring to all the usual stuff; it was poorly received at launch and remains unloved, it's effette/ hairdressery, lacking dynamically etc.
A colleague recently took an interest in my Z3 (yes, I have one which I may want to sell) and had a look at AT/ the other usual suspects. He'd been considering a Z4 for a while, but thought my car looked good and assumed that a Z3 may be a more affordable route to a 2-seater BMW roadster with a 6-cylinder lump.
Like myself, he observed that prices are surprisingly 'strong', the gap in price between similar spec Z3/ Z4s is actually relatively small. Disregarding narrow-bodied pre-facelift 4-cylinder cars, almost every facelift (2000>, 6-cylinder) seems to command a price that belies the Z3s largely unloved status. How many of these seemingly optimistically-priced cars are actually selling I'm not sure, but I suspect market prices are dictated by what customers are willing to pay and they don't seem to be coming down...
To be clear, I'm no Z3 fanboy and I stumbled into ownership; I was looking for a mk1 MX5 (again) and searched for a 2-seater convertible within my modest budget. I had never even bothered to open a Z3 ad before (hairdressers cars, don't drive well etc), but I spotted one locally which had afew tasteful 'M' bits and a 6-cylinder motor for what even then seemed to be very little money. Out of morbid curiosity I went for a look assuming there would be something catastrophically wrong with it. Long story short; it was mint and drove surprisingly well so I bought it 'for summer'.
2 years of faultless, very enjoyable daily driving later and I'm thinking it may be time to 'cash in'. I'd rather have had a Z4 in the first place, and don't see how I could go wrong punting the Z3 and putting afew quid extra in for a cheeky upgrade to a Z4...
Tl;dr- why are Z3 prices as strong as they are? Or is it more a case of Z4s being near rock-bottom right now?
Mine:
A colleague recently took an interest in my Z3 (yes, I have one which I may want to sell) and had a look at AT/ the other usual suspects. He'd been considering a Z4 for a while, but thought my car looked good and assumed that a Z3 may be a more affordable route to a 2-seater BMW roadster with a 6-cylinder lump.
Like myself, he observed that prices are surprisingly 'strong', the gap in price between similar spec Z3/ Z4s is actually relatively small. Disregarding narrow-bodied pre-facelift 4-cylinder cars, almost every facelift (2000>, 6-cylinder) seems to command a price that belies the Z3s largely unloved status. How many of these seemingly optimistically-priced cars are actually selling I'm not sure, but I suspect market prices are dictated by what customers are willing to pay and they don't seem to be coming down...
To be clear, I'm no Z3 fanboy and I stumbled into ownership; I was looking for a mk1 MX5 (again) and searched for a 2-seater convertible within my modest budget. I had never even bothered to open a Z3 ad before (hairdressers cars, don't drive well etc), but I spotted one locally which had afew tasteful 'M' bits and a 6-cylinder motor for what even then seemed to be very little money. Out of morbid curiosity I went for a look assuming there would be something catastrophically wrong with it. Long story short; it was mint and drove surprisingly well so I bought it 'for summer'.
2 years of faultless, very enjoyable daily driving later and I'm thinking it may be time to 'cash in'. I'd rather have had a Z4 in the first place, and don't see how I could go wrong punting the Z3 and putting afew quid extra in for a cheeky upgrade to a Z4...
Tl;dr- why are Z3 prices as strong as they are? Or is it more a case of Z4s being near rock-bottom right now?
Mine:
Interesting post - I didn't realise late Z3 prices were close to early Z4s.
But then the only Z3 I might have bought never got sold in the UK (breadvan with the 2.8) as I like a roof! That is why I currently have a Z4 Coupe!
From what I have read the Z4 shell is much stiffer than the Z3 so it handles much better, but in both cases the Coupe shell is much stiffer than the Roadster which also influenced my decision!
To be fair I don't think of Z3s or Z4s as hairdresser cars so long as they have a straight 6, although I am biased of course!
Anyway good luck with the sale!
But then the only Z3 I might have bought never got sold in the UK (breadvan with the 2.8) as I like a roof! That is why I currently have a Z4 Coupe!
From what I have read the Z4 shell is much stiffer than the Z3 so it handles much better, but in both cases the Coupe shell is much stiffer than the Roadster which also influenced my decision!
To be fair I don't think of Z3s or Z4s as hairdresser cars so long as they have a straight 6, although I am biased of course!
Anyway good luck with the sale!
Go over to a enthusiast site like zroadster.org (UK) or bmmerforums (US) and you will see the love for these cars and what actual owners are doing with them, good ones are getting scarcer and sell quick, but even rough ones can be brought up to standard quite cheaply.
Last of the non-M BMW's to have an LSD too.
Last of the non-M BMW's to have an LSD too.
Is it perception or reality of flaws that makes them unloved? I never really believed that a company that makes such exquisite driving saloons can somehow f
k up every sports car they try, given that they are based on the saloons. Or is it just the fact that they go floppy? And before someone says "old death trap semi trailing arm rear suspension" the E30 that everyone loves has that set up!
k up every sports car they try, given that they are based on the saloons. Or is it just the fact that they go floppy? And before someone says "old death trap semi trailing arm rear suspension" the E30 that everyone loves has that set up! Triumph Man said:
I never really believed that a company that makes such exquisite driving saloons can somehow fk up every sports car they try, given that they are based on the saloons.
I wouldn't say that, Evo gave the Z4 Coupe 5-stars, and having owned one for a couple of months I love it.k up every sports car they try, given that they are based on the saloons.The Z3 doesn't really do it for me looks wise but I do have to question if they are as bad to drive as some people claim. Sure it's no Elise, but it's not pretending to be either.
TameRacingDriver said:
Triumph Man said:
I never really believed that a company that makes such exquisite driving saloons can somehow fk up every sports car they try, given that they are based on the saloons.
I wouldn't say that, Evo gave the Z4 Coupe 5-stars, and having owned one for a couple of months I love it.k up every sports car they try, given that they are based on the saloons.The Z3 doesn't really do it for me looks wise but I do have to question if they are as bad to drive as some people claim. Sure it's no Elise, but it's not pretending to be either.
For the average Mr Mrs & Miss they drive perfectly acceptably. Perhaps for those deluded with their ability to manage a car or even understand when a car 'handles well' they might be found wanting.
I suspect BMW had prospective buyers of 3 Series saloons in mind when it came to developing what of course is merely a 2-seat version of a saloon. For most it's the sporting 'image' that mattered.
Perhaps the bigger engine M versions might become classics in time.
I suspect BMW had prospective buyers of 3 Series saloons in mind when it came to developing what of course is merely a 2-seat version of a saloon. For most it's the sporting 'image' that mattered.
Perhaps the bigger engine M versions might become classics in time.
WJNB said:
Perhaps for those deluded with their ability to manage a car or even understand when a car 'handles well' they might be found wanting.
So if you don't like it you don't know what you're talking about when it comes to cars? Perhaps that's me then. Our Z4 is fast and has excellent levels of grip. It's easy to drive fast. You just point it in the direction you want it to go and it complies. It's also very numb to drive and the suspension set up is too harsh. I don't like it very much at all. I haven't driven any other BMWs to compare it with and I'm quite interested in a 3 or 5 series estate at the moment so I'm hoping the z4 isn't too representative of how the rest of the range drives.Edited by Bennet on Sunday 14th February 16:16
My Z3 (2002/52 2.2i six pot) was bought for pleasure use. I have a Westfield for track days and anything more ambitious. Nevertheless, one December I was booked for an airfield day with MSE and for various reasons chose to leave the Westfield behind at the last minute and took the Z3 instead. There's no mods to it at all and the tyres at the time were both 'ordinary' and fairly old chronologically. I have to admit that whilst it's no Se7en style car, it was great fun and the handling surprisingly good. Either oversteer or understeer could be provoked with the throttle and it was not hard to balance it on the power through corners. The LSD allowed power on without inside wheel spin, and with only one reservation I can honestly say it acquitted itself pretty well for a car of it's type (more cruiser than out'n'out sports car, with the USA market in mind when designed). The reservation was the brakes and it was a serious reservation too. They were up to the task, right enough, but had no staying power. The pedal went 'long' quickly and needed extended cooling off times to recover. I learned from my son's early experience with his Z4M Coupé to switch off DSC because that wrecks the brakes very quickly by trying to rein in your exuberance with the frequent application of braking on one, two, or more wheels at every opportunity.
If I didn't have my Westfield, I would upgrade the brakes on the Z3 and get some track day tyres on a spare set of wheels - it would be fun and well worth the effort. So many critics of the Z3 have never driven one, nor even ridden in one in some cases, and simply trot out received wisdom. They are great little cars with a beautifully smooth straight six engine. Not raw like a Honda S2000, but civilised with a good turn of performance - especially the 'M' models.
If I didn't have my Westfield, I would upgrade the brakes on the Z3 and get some track day tyres on a spare set of wheels - it would be fun and well worth the effort. So many critics of the Z3 have never driven one, nor even ridden in one in some cases, and simply trot out received wisdom. They are great little cars with a beautifully smooth straight six engine. Not raw like a Honda S2000, but civilised with a good turn of performance - especially the 'M' models.
V8RX7 said:
The reason IMO is that the Z3 isn't pretty but the Z4 is positively ugly.
Beauty being a matter of opinion notwithstanding, I think the Z4 Coupé is beautiful while the Z4 Roadster looks as if it has had its arse kicked. As for the Z3, I like its retro-styling in its later editions. The first ones were weak in appeal, granted, but a nicely maintained 'face' lifted roadster is good. The Z3 coupé is quirky...motco said:
V8RX7 said:
The reason IMO is that the Z3 isn't pretty but the Z4 is positively ugly.
Beauty being a matter of opinion notwithstanding, I think the Z4 Coupé is beautiful while the Z4 Roadster looks as if it has had its arse kicked. As for the Z3, I like its retro-styling in its later editions. The first ones were weak in appeal, granted, but a nicely maintained 'face' lifted roadster is good. The Z3 coupé is quirky...I'd have liked the front to be maybe a bit more E46, but 12 years on nearly I still think they look good, particularly when I see one on the road, rather than this very ordinary pic. It does show the 'flame surfacing' to some extent though.
I suspect the prices are low is more because although they don't have many faults, the issues with roof motors and steering columns are expensive to repair and the Z3 is less complicated.
Sticks. said:
motco said:
V8RX7 said:
The reason IMO is that the Z3 isn't pretty but the Z4 is positively ugly.
Beauty being a matter of opinion notwithstanding, I think the Z4 Coupé is beautiful while the Z4 Roadster looks as if it has had its arse kicked. As for the Z3, I like its retro-styling in its later editions. The first ones were weak in appeal, granted, but a nicely maintained 'face' lifted roadster is good. The Z3 coupé is quirky...I'd have liked the front to be maybe a bit more E46, but 12 years on nearly I still think they look good, particularly when I see one on the road, rather than this very ordinary pic. It does show the 'flame surfacing' to some extent though.
I suspect the prices are low is more because although they don't have many faults, the issues with roof motors and steering columns are expensive to repair and the Z3 is less complicated.
Dino D said:
Go over to a enthusiast site like zroadster.org (UK) or bmmerforums (US) and you will see the love for these cars and what actual owners are doing with them, good ones are getting scarcer and sell quick, but even rough ones can be brought up to standard quite cheaply.
Last of the non-M BMW's to have an LSD too.
That's the thing though; I've been on zroadster for over 2 years now, and I'd disagree that (other than the M roadster/ coupe owners) are doing much with Z3s outside of normal, routine, dare-I-say boring stuff.Last of the non-M BMW's to have an LSD too.
I've owned other cars that aren't widely adored by PH/ Joe Public (eg Gen7 Celica, amongst other un-noteworthy stuff) and haven't found a less active owners club/ community. There's the token few guys that have late-model, big 6-cylinder cars and thrown everything at them ofcourse, but the other 99% are just looking to keep their bone-stock garage ornament healthy for next summer.
As a PHer who happened upon the Z3 after owning/ loving mk1 MX5s, I'm genuinely puzzled by how well values are holding up. On paper the Z3 seems OK- cheap 6-cyl top-down experience, 'premium' badge, no scary bork, inexpensive to maintain etc. But there's no getting away from the fact that the MX5 has much more kudos, is revered by 'drivers', only a 4-cyl but it's sweet and the drive is widely regarded as a fun, engaging triumph of engineering.
I could pick up a decent mk1 MX5 for this summer ~£1K; the polar opposite of the Z3 in that I don't feel I should still be able to do this in 2016. If I wasn't wary of early Toyota 1ZZs (I am), I could have an early MR-S sub £2K- a car which PHers have (quite correctly) put forward as a good alternative to an Elise.
Maybe there are significant numbers of roadster buyers out there who value a German badge/ 6-cylinder engine over dynamically superior 4-cylinder Jap stuff... but they're certainly not PHers as far as I can discern.
daveofedinburgh said:
Maybe there are significant numbers of roadster buyers out there who value a German badge/ 6-cylinder engine over dynamically superior 4-cylinder Jap stuff... but they're certainly not PHers as far as I can discern.
Do 'dynamics' not include straight line speed, power delivery, noise, looks, etc? I'm a PHer with a Z3 and an MX5 has no appeal to me whatsoever. Horses for courses but overall the Z3 is a better 'car', which is what most people want. The MX5 may have possess far better handling but that's the only pro against all the cons. If handling is all that matters to you then an MX5 is probably a better bet and luckily for you they're very cheap.As a daily driver on public roads the Z3 handles perfectly well. My previous car was an E46 330i and the Z is far more fun to drive. In fact it's the most fun car I've ever owned, amongst an assortment of hot hatches and a few other bits (nothing overly impressive). Not everyone compares it to the MX5 just because on paper they are similar cars. When considering one I compared it to hot hatches and big engine saloons and as a result I'm very happy with it. The Mazda would be a step too far.
daveofedinburgh said:
That's the thing though; I've been on zroadster for over 2 years now, and I'd disagree that (other than the M roadster/ coupe owners) are doing much with Z3s outside of normal, routine, dare-I-say boring stuff.
That's because they chased my friend out with firey pitchforks a few years ago. (as will most of PH)
Now it seems everyone is doing similar to what he was in the "scene". When he told me recently how much he could get for his if it was tidy (It's sat not moving for a couple of years) I thought he was dreaming, but was equally surprised when I checked AutoTrader!
I actually quite like them. I think they've aged very well. I also think being older and somewhat "Simpler" they have less inherent problems? Or at least are cheaper to fix? Or maybe the aformentioned "Scene" realising you can lower them and put silly wheels on them to great effect. As with most BMW's to be honest.
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