Ferrari & Haas, Mercedes & Manor?

[HustleRussell]

So in the 2015 mid season everybody got very suspicious of the extent of the Ferrari / Haas technical partnership particularly where it came to wind tunnel development etc. So much so that I seem to remember Mercedes asking for a 'clarification' on the legality of such technical partnerships, only to be told that Ferrari / Haas is legit and that they are basically missing a trick.

Mercedes have been cozying up to Manor ever since, and now it emerges they're getting a 'Mercedes' driver.

Are Mercedes and Manor likely to cooperate in a similar way to Ferrari and Haas, and if so, shall we expect a re-invigorated Manor to be challenging Sauber, McLaren, Haas... Renault?

[EnglishTony]

Sauce for the goose is also sauce for the gander IMO.

There is nothing new in Merc pushing it's DTM drivers into F1 with Merc connected teams though.
Nor anything new about them having a soft spot for former F3 drivers who used Merc engines.

[rdjohn]

I think the biggest difference is that Haas have been buying technical expertise from Ferrari.

Manor have no cash so taking their driver for free, or low-cost, engines is a no-brained. I think I read that their gearbox and rear suspension will be supplied by Williams, presumably at a lower cost than buying Mercedes.

So a dissimilarity in resource and probable outcome.

[thegreenhell]

The biggest difference was the fact that Haas at the time were not yet a competitor, so they weren't bound by any of the restrictions on wind tunnel testing or IP transfer between teams. They could pretty much do whatever they wanted. I read somewhere that one way in which Ferrari took advantage of this by letting some of their engineers go and work for Haas, then rehired them at the end of the year with all their Haas test data still fresh in their heads.

[Scuffers]

thegreenhell said:

The biggest difference was the fact that Haas at the time were not yet a competitor, so they weren't bound by any of the restrictions on wind tunnel testing or IP transfer between teams. They could pretty much do whatever they wanted. I read somewhere that one way in which Ferrari took advantage of this by letting some of their engineers go and work for Haas, then rehired them at the end of the year with all their Haas test data still fresh in their heads.

and, who knows how much of the wind tunnel time racked up was actually for?

[tuffer]

So why can't company X, lets call them McWilliams, just create a new team, maybe that team spend as much time as they want developing a Formula Y car and then hand over all that data to McWilliams.

[Scuffers]

tuffer said:

So why can't company X, lets call them McWilliams, just create a new team, maybe that team spend as much time as they want developing a Formula Y car and then hand over all that data to McWilliams.

that would be too obvious, they would have no valid reason to do the test work, thus the intended target would be easily proven to be Williams.

there are only so many wind tunnels, it would be impossible to secretly do any meaningful testing, so even if a completely unrelated company started a test programme, it's work would not be invisible.

[Munter]

tuffer said:

So why can't company X, lets call them McWilliams, just create a new team, maybe that team spend as much time as they want developing a Formula Y car and then hand over all that data to McWilliams.

I think it's the data transfer part and the creation of a team solely for the reasons of getting around the sporting rules.

What you need is a team that's actually intending to join F1, and can prove it. Who will buy stuff from you, test it, then ask you to improve it in certain ways to meet their specifications. And who will let you embed your staff in their team for a while to help them get things right.

[MiniMan64]

Munter said:

tuffer said:

So why can't company X, lets call them McWilliams, just create a new team, maybe that team spend as much time as they want developing a Formula Y car and then hand over all that data to McWilliams.

I think it's the data transfer part and the creation of a team solely for the reasons of getting around the sporting rules.

What you need is a team that's actually intending to join F1, and can prove it. Who will buy stuff from you, test it, then ask you to improve it in certain ways to meet their specifications. And who will let you embed your staff in their team for a while to help them get things right.

Which is precisely what Ferrari have got.

I don't see the big deal, they've been pushing for 3 car teams for years to keep the sport afloat, how is this much different except it's 4 car teams instead of 3?

[Scuffers]

MiniMan64 said:

Which is precisely what Ferrari have got.

I don't see the big deal, they've been pushing for 3 car teams for years to keep the sport afloat, how is this much different except it's 4 car teams instead of 3?

not quite, I agree 3 car teams would be a great addition, but this is a repeat of the arguments over red bull and Torro sharing the same platforms.

[RichB]

Still can't see the problem. It's motor racing we want and if this means more teams in the sport then so what?