RE: BMW M2: Review
Discussion
kambites said:
There's something about turbocharged inline sixes which just don't work for me. They're nearly as bad as unequal length header flat-fours.
I agree the engine noise in something like a Subaru is an acquired taste and I can understand why some people don't like them (although I do) but as for turbo inline sixes, have you ever heard an RB26 on song? I defy anyone with a modicum of petrol in their veins to listen to one at full chat and not appreciate the sound. I'd rate it as up their with some of the best engines I've heard. A nuanced multi-toned wail which changes for the better, the closer to the 8krpm redline you get and genuine pops, flames and burbles on the overrun, before it became fashionable to add fake ones in via ECU trickery.Edited by kambites on Tuesday 23 February 13:55
Admittedly they don't really make em like they used to though and modern turbo sixes are often very dull in comparison.
Pommygranite said:
I think that's extremely valid regards the M4 comparison.
I really like the M2 and for me weight ultimately doesn't matter for this type of car given what it is and comparison to its peers it's absolutely fine. We need to keep perspective to what it actually is in its market. It's not an Elise/4C so why fret.
Also the E30 M3 was also always regarded as really not that quick, even in its heyday. EVO go and rate it and everyone's jerking off over it. No one mentions the near 7 seconds 0-60 time.
We now have a sub 4 seconds, near affordable and capable everyday car with 4 seconds that will in the vast majority of cases just plug he motorways and everyone's losing their mind.
If you are criticising the weight I actually think you don't understand it.
Active Sound isn't actually very loveable is it but I am thinking it can be turned off (can't it?)
In some ways I think you've hit the nail on the head here... but think your conclusions are a bit back to front.I really like the M2 and for me weight ultimately doesn't matter for this type of car given what it is and comparison to its peers it's absolutely fine. We need to keep perspective to what it actually is in its market. It's not an Elise/4C so why fret.
Also the E30 M3 was also always regarded as really not that quick, even in its heyday. EVO go and rate it and everyone's jerking off over it. No one mentions the near 7 seconds 0-60 time.
We now have a sub 4 seconds, near affordable and capable everyday car with 4 seconds that will in the vast majority of cases just plug he motorways and everyone's losing their mind.
If you are criticising the weight I actually think you don't understand it.
Active Sound isn't actually very loveable is it but I am thinking it can be turned off (can't it?)
Yes, the outright performance of the M2 is absolutely plenty, no-one is criticising the weight due to 4.5 to 60 being too slow, it's the way a heavier car feels to drive that's the problem.
Your E30 M3 example is perfect. The car really isn't that fast in a straight line, but everyone who knows the car (not just evo) absolutely rave about them being great to drive. A great drivers car, and a really fast car aren't the same thing.
I'm sure the M2 will be a lot of fun, but I personally would rather a car that was 200kgs lighter (unrealistic I know), with hydraulic steering, that was half a second slower 0-60.
hufggfg said:
Pommygranite said:
I think that's extremely valid regards the M4 comparison.
I really like the M2 and for me weight ultimately doesn't matter for this type of car given what it is and comparison to its peers it's absolutely fine. We need to keep perspective to what it actually is in its market. It's not an Elise/4C so why fret.
Also the E30 M3 was also always regarded as really not that quick, even in its heyday. EVO go and rate it and everyone's jerking off over it. No one mentions the near 7 seconds 0-60 time.
We now have a sub 4 seconds, near affordable and capable everyday car with 4 seconds that will in the vast majority of cases just plug he motorways and everyone's losing their mind.
If you are criticising the weight I actually think you don't understand it.
Active Sound isn't actually very loveable is it but I am thinking it can be turned off (can't it?)
In some ways I think you've hit the nail on the head here... but think your conclusions are a bit back to front.I really like the M2 and for me weight ultimately doesn't matter for this type of car given what it is and comparison to its peers it's absolutely fine. We need to keep perspective to what it actually is in its market. It's not an Elise/4C so why fret.
Also the E30 M3 was also always regarded as really not that quick, even in its heyday. EVO go and rate it and everyone's jerking off over it. No one mentions the near 7 seconds 0-60 time.
We now have a sub 4 seconds, near affordable and capable everyday car with 4 seconds that will in the vast majority of cases just plug he motorways and everyone's losing their mind.
If you are criticising the weight I actually think you don't understand it.
Active Sound isn't actually very loveable is it but I am thinking it can be turned off (can't it?)
Yes, the outright performance of the M2 is absolutely plenty, no-one is criticising the weight due to 4.5 to 60 being too slow, it's the way a heavier car feels to drive that's the problem.
Your E30 M3 example is perfect. The car really isn't that fast in a straight line, but everyone who knows the car (not just evo) absolutely rave about them being great to drive. A great drivers car, and a really fast car aren't the same thing.
I'm sure the M2 will be a lot of fun, but I personally would rather a car that was 200kgs lighter (unrealistic I know), with hydraulic steering, that was half a second slower 0-60.
The 4C is a great point. It hasn't sold in numbers because for £40/45k, customers comfort, space, big wheels, kit and well as pace and a decent engine note.
Guvernator said:
I agree the engine noise in something like a Subaru is an acquired taste and I can understand why some people don't like them (although I do) but as for turbo inline sixes, have you ever heard an RB26 on song? I defy anyone with a modicum of petrol in their veins to listen to one at full chat and not appreciate the sound. I'd rate it as up their with some of the best engines I've heard. A nuanced multi-toned wail which changes for the better, the closer to the 8krpm redline you get and genuine pops, flames and burbles on the overrun, before it became fashionable to add fake ones in via ECU trickery.
Admittedly they don't really make em like they used to though and modern turbo sixes are often very dull in comparison.
Actually that's a fair point; some of the older Japanese turbocharged inline sixes at least have some character even if they're a bit... melodramatic sounding for my tastes. Admittedly they don't really make em like they used to though and modern turbo sixes are often very dull in comparison.
Ares said:
hufggfg said:
Pommygranite said:
I think that's extremely valid regards the M4 comparison.
I really like the M2 and for me weight ultimately doesn't matter for this type of car given what it is and comparison to its peers it's absolutely fine. We need to keep perspective to what it actually is in its market. It's not an Elise/4C so why fret.
Also the E30 M3 was also always regarded as really not that quick, even in its heyday. EVO go and rate it and everyone's jerking off over it. No one mentions the near 7 seconds 0-60 time.
We now have a sub 4 seconds, near affordable and capable everyday car with 4 seconds that will in the vast majority of cases just plug he motorways and everyone's losing their mind.
If you are criticising the weight I actually think you don't understand it.
Active Sound isn't actually very loveable is it but I am thinking it can be turned off (can't it?)
In some ways I think you've hit the nail on the head here... but think your conclusions are a bit back to front.I really like the M2 and for me weight ultimately doesn't matter for this type of car given what it is and comparison to its peers it's absolutely fine. We need to keep perspective to what it actually is in its market. It's not an Elise/4C so why fret.
Also the E30 M3 was also always regarded as really not that quick, even in its heyday. EVO go and rate it and everyone's jerking off over it. No one mentions the near 7 seconds 0-60 time.
We now have a sub 4 seconds, near affordable and capable everyday car with 4 seconds that will in the vast majority of cases just plug he motorways and everyone's losing their mind.
If you are criticising the weight I actually think you don't understand it.
Active Sound isn't actually very loveable is it but I am thinking it can be turned off (can't it?)
Yes, the outright performance of the M2 is absolutely plenty, no-one is criticising the weight due to 4.5 to 60 being too slow, it's the way a heavier car feels to drive that's the problem.
Your E30 M3 example is perfect. The car really isn't that fast in a straight line, but everyone who knows the car (not just evo) absolutely rave about them being great to drive. A great drivers car, and a really fast car aren't the same thing.
I'm sure the M2 will be a lot of fun, but I personally would rather a car that was 200kgs lighter (unrealistic I know), with hydraulic steering, that was half a second slower 0-60.
The 4C is a great point. It hasn't sold in numbers because for £40/45k, customers comfort, space, big wheels, kit and well as pace and a decent engine note.
And even if it was built using lightweight materials rather than stripped out it'd be prohibitively expensive and then everyone would complain about the price.
Pretty much every sub supercar has something someone will complain about. If piped sound,front spoilers and autoblip down changes are this ones I'll take that.
As for the view that if it was 200kgs lighter it'd drive better it seems it drives pretty bloody good as is.
Pommygranite said:
Ares said:
hufggfg said:
Pommygranite said:
I think that's extremely valid regards the M4 comparison.
I really like the M2 and for me weight ultimately doesn't matter for this type of car given what it is and comparison to its peers it's absolutely fine. We need to keep perspective to what it actually is in its market. It's not an Elise/4C so why fret.
Also the E30 M3 was also always regarded as really not that quick, even in its heyday. EVO go and rate it and everyone's jerking off over it. No one mentions the near 7 seconds 0-60 time.
We now have a sub 4 seconds, near affordable and capable everyday car with 4 seconds that will in the vast majority of cases just plug he motorways and everyone's losing their mind.
If you are criticising the weight I actually think you don't understand it.
Active Sound isn't actually very loveable is it but I am thinking it can be turned off (can't it?)
In some ways I think you've hit the nail on the head here... but think your conclusions are a bit back to front.I really like the M2 and for me weight ultimately doesn't matter for this type of car given what it is and comparison to its peers it's absolutely fine. We need to keep perspective to what it actually is in its market. It's not an Elise/4C so why fret.
Also the E30 M3 was also always regarded as really not that quick, even in its heyday. EVO go and rate it and everyone's jerking off over it. No one mentions the near 7 seconds 0-60 time.
We now have a sub 4 seconds, near affordable and capable everyday car with 4 seconds that will in the vast majority of cases just plug he motorways and everyone's losing their mind.
If you are criticising the weight I actually think you don't understand it.
Active Sound isn't actually very loveable is it but I am thinking it can be turned off (can't it?)
Yes, the outright performance of the M2 is absolutely plenty, no-one is criticising the weight due to 4.5 to 60 being too slow, it's the way a heavier car feels to drive that's the problem.
Your E30 M3 example is perfect. The car really isn't that fast in a straight line, but everyone who knows the car (not just evo) absolutely rave about them being great to drive. A great drivers car, and a really fast car aren't the same thing.
I'm sure the M2 will be a lot of fun, but I personally would rather a car that was 200kgs lighter (unrealistic I know), with hydraulic steering, that was half a second slower 0-60.
The 4C is a great point. It hasn't sold in numbers because for £40/45k, customers comfort, space, big wheels, kit and well as pace and a decent engine note.
And even if it was built using lightweight materials rather than stripped out it'd be prohibitively expensive and then everyone would complain about the price.
Pretty much every sub supercar has something someone will complain about. If piped sound,front spoilers and autoblip down changes are this ones I'll take that.
As for the view that if it was 200kgs lighter it'd drive better it seems it drives pretty bloody good as is.
What I mean is, you're missing the point if you think that the reason some of us would rather a lighter car is just that we want it to be faster. Faster is not the issue. More involving and dynamic is the issue. E30 M3 being the perfect example, they aren't exactly that outright fast, but they are incredibly involving, and almost universally loved.
I'm not saying I want the M2 to be a stripped out racer, I have other cars for that, but in the balance of luxury/weight/toys/power/etc I would personally rather it was a bit lighter, purely for use as a daily.
oliver1oo6 said:
Sounds like a class act.
Does anybody think that the weight being 1,495kg is a bit of a giveaway that BMW is leaving some room for an M2 CSL? Now that would be something...
Carbon roof, bigger intake, semi-stripped insides, cup-2 tyres and lightweight wheels that sits around ~1,400kg? Perhaps (and this would be nice) electric power for torque-fill combined with a bigger turbo that comes on boost at a higher RPM - with a 8k redline? OK, I am going to stop now.
In my world, that's a no-brainer. Does anybody think that the weight being 1,495kg is a bit of a giveaway that BMW is leaving some room for an M2 CSL? Now that would be something...
Carbon roof, bigger intake, semi-stripped insides, cup-2 tyres and lightweight wheels that sits around ~1,400kg? Perhaps (and this would be nice) electric power for torque-fill combined with a bigger turbo that comes on boost at a higher RPM - with a 8k redline? OK, I am going to stop now.
Edited by oliver1oo6 on Friday 19th February 02:16
Pommygranite said:
Think it's just about perfect.
Same. I love the look of it from sideways on, it sits perfectly without the massive arch gaps and so on BMW were so bad at in the past. I would imagine quite a few people would be wanting to order through BMW Individual as the tiny range of colours and lack of a brighter cabin option disappoints me also, although that blue is delicious. I can't really relate to buying one new but in a few years this'll definitely be something to consider, so I'm thinking of it more as a future used car.
If I bought one I'd be removing the OEM wheels and putting them somewhere safe and looking at aftermarket options. It has a look that will lend itself to many modern and classic wheel styles. I think the front aero is definitely quite imposing and definitely some colours would benefit from carbon wrap on some on some of the more extreme fins.
It's clearly going to be very tuneable. The rev-matching thing does sound a bit irritating, but no doubt it'll be easy enough to map out if it really does prove to be annoying. A bit like deleting the Clutch Delay Valve on an older model.
Also, really looking forward to see what AC Schnitzer and the usual suspects will come up with to add/modify the car with. Also wonder if the 2 will ever get an Alpina version.
aeropilot said:
vsonix said:
I would imagine quite a few people would be wanting to order through BMW Individual as the tiny range of colours and lack of a brighter cabin option disappoints me also, although that blue is delicious.
BMW Individual isn't available on the M2.vsonix said:
aeropilot said:
vsonix said:
I would imagine quite a few people would be wanting to order through BMW Individual as the tiny range of colours and lack of a brighter cabin option disappoints me also, although that blue is delicious.
BMW Individual isn't available on the M2.vsonix said:
aeropilot said:
vsonix said:
I would imagine quite a few people would be wanting to order through BMW Individual as the tiny range of colours and lack of a brighter cabin option disappoints me also, although that blue is delicious.
BMW Individual isn't available on the M2.kambites said:
ratty6464 said:
You need to turn off the DSC to get the diff to lock on acceleration, otherwise the DSC kicks in and brakes the wheel that is starting to slip before the diff transfers the torque across the axle. If you don't turn off the DSC then you're missing out on the potential of the car and an extra depth of capability
Again though, that's a matter off crappy calibration, there's no fundamental reason to have that limitation. It sounds like BMW's stability control system simply isn't suited to being installed in car that's aimed at keen drivers - from what you're saying it's either fully off or overly nannying. ratty6464 said:
There's a half way house DSC mode that is quite good, but the cars are so balanced that you only need traction control on in the wet or greasy weather, getting the back end out a bit is fun.
I thought we were talking about stability control, not just traction control? Arguably the most important bits of stability control happen when you're off the throttle. A good stability control system should have a mode under which you can't even tell it's there until you're far more out of shape than any sane person would intentionally get on the public road. If a system is any good there is, IMO, absolutely no reason to ever switch it off completely for road driving; conversely if people are finding they have to switch it off to have fun on the road, the system is rubbish for a sporty car.
Now clearly I have no experience of the system in the M2; it might be brilliant, but if it is that makes it even more moronic that you have to switch it off to get full control of the throttle when the clutch is down. I guess they don't expect to actually sell a significant number of manuals so they couldn't be bothered to put any effort into making manual-specific bits of the electronics configurable; which is fair enough I suppose since they're there to make a profit not to please someone like me who wouldn't buy the car anyway.
Edited by kambites on Saturday 27th February 12:57
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff