RE: Alfa Giulia - Geneva 2016
Discussion
kambites said:
There is a standard way to measure cars in the EU (standard spec with 90% fuel and 75kg of driver/luggage) but the Italians seem not to use it. With Alfa quoting 1,374kg dry, I suspect when people actually get a typically specced production car on weigh bridge it'll be easily on the hefty side of 1500kg - nothing to write home about but not terrible either.
Er..VAG has been doing this for years.Edited by kambites on Tuesday 1st March 20:33
Ali_T said:
kambites said:
There is a standard way to measure cars in the EU (standard spec with 90% fuel and 75kg of driver/luggage) but the Italians seem not to use it. With Alfa quoting 1,374kg dry, I suspect when people actually get a typically specced production car on weigh bridge it'll be easily on the hefty side of 1500kg - nothing to write home about but not terrible either.
Er..VAG has been doing this for years.
I think all the big German companies quote EU these days. BMW and Mercedes certainly do, I'm not sure about VAG. It does lead to the ridiculous situation where on some models bog standard equipment like air con gets deleted from the standard spec but can be added back at no extra cost just to bring down the "official" weight.
Edited by kambites on Tuesday 1st March 20:42
Bakazan said:
"Alfa has divulged some weights already though, claiming that a 180hp diesel weighs 1,374kg dry thanks in part to aluminium doors, aluminium wings and a carbon driveshaft. But then the 4C has never matched its claimed kerbweight so will maintain a little cynicism for a while yet."
How do manufacturers get away with quoting incorrect weights? Is this one area the EU hasn't legislated to level the playing field?
How do manufacturers get away with quoting incorrect weights? Is this one area the EU hasn't legislated to level the playing field?
They don't, theirs legislation and journalism, in the latter case, it's PH job to figure out if what's claimed is true. And dry weight isn't kerb weight.
"Kerb weight (UK English) is the total weight of a vehicle with standard equipment, all necessary operating consumables such as motor oil, transmission oil, coolant, air conditioning refrigerant, and a full tank of fuel, while not loaded with either passengers or cargo".
And:
"But then the 4C has never matched its claimed kerbweight so will maintain a little cynicism for a while yet."
The 4C did seem to match it's DRY WEIGHT, but having the abilty to read seems to be a craft on it's own these days.
The claimed Alfa's "DRY weight" of 895 kg's was the 4C without any liquids and "optional" (but free of charge) equipment, like aircon and radio/speakers, it's the same sort of "trickery" Lotus uses. (except Lotus doesn't have a TCT gearbox as standard which costs 20kg's, but that's a different matter). Lotus also presents the weight of it's Elise without aircon and radio/speakers for instance. Plus an Elise doesn't have electric windows and mirrors, nor does it have parking sensors.
DeltonaS said:
The 4C did seem to match it's DRY WEIGHT
Does it? The few reviews I've read which have weighed it have got a figure around the one tonne mark (wet with no driver and however much fuel happened to be in the car at the time). There's no way those cars have 100kg of fluids and options is there? IIRC Alfa actually claim 1050kg or there abouts wet for US cars, I've no idea what difference there is in standard spec, though. For what it's worth, I've had my Elise weighed several times with about half a tank of fuel (on corner weighting equipment which tends to be reasonably accurate) and it consistently comes out at less that Lotus's claimed figure. That's with a stereo, electric windows, etc. but no air conditioning. Admittedly my car is 13 years old, they might have started lying about weights more recently I suppose.
This could be perfect. This could be class beating and a runaway sales success. As a long-time fan of Alfa Romeo, I want it to be, even if I can't afford one.
But, it won't.
Do not, under any circumstances, underestimate the ability of Alfa Romeo to royally f
k things up. They could offer gold-plated blow-jobs and you'd still come away (waa-heyyy!) feeling hard done by. Marketing will be poor, the dealers utterly hopeless and the back-up lacking. Look what happened to the 159 and Brera as a fine example of how to do things the way you shouldn't do things...
But, it won't.
Do not, under any circumstances, underestimate the ability of Alfa Romeo to royally f
k things up. They could offer gold-plated blow-jobs and you'd still come away (waa-heyyy!) feeling hard done by. Marketing will be poor, the dealers utterly hopeless and the back-up lacking. Look what happened to the 159 and Brera as a fine example of how to do things the way you shouldn't do things...If it's screwed together well and there aren't too many negative 'Alfa-isms' then this will be a fine car and a worthy contender.
I'd be interested to drive a medium specced one of these and similar Jaguar XE back to back to see how they compare.. Hope both are genuine BMW, Merc, Audi alternatives.
I'd be interested to drive a medium specced one of these and similar Jaguar XE back to back to see how they compare.. Hope both are genuine BMW, Merc, Audi alternatives.
kambites said:
It does lead to the ridiculous situation where on some models bog standard equipment like air con gets deleted from the standard spec but can be added back at no extra cost just to bring down the "official" weight.
Yup, and some models having stupidly small fuel tanks as standard. Probably shaves off a few g of CO2 on the test as well. Mercedes likes to do this apparently, some people have not been happy when they found out they ordered a C-Class with a 41l tank...As a current owner of a petrol 159 SW I really like this car and can certainly see it as a replacement in the future but totally with a previous poster about the ability of AR to totally mess it up. The dealership "experience" in my area is so bad I'd rather do a 220 mile round trip to an Indy to get my car serviced than drive 5 minutes down the road, this AR dealership apparently is one of the best...
While the 159 is generally very well built it's the detail things that when you compare it to the usual suspects in the segment really let it down. At 4 years old I have the paintwork worse than my 18 year old Fiat, paint flaking off the wheels and a drivers seat that frankly needs a retrim. Comparing this with friends cars from the German marques explains why you really need rose tints on to buy one. A serious upping of quality is definitely needed.
The Giulia looks great and I really hope AR succeed with this car, my feeling is though they seriously need to do some work to get any meaningful sales away from the mainstream products.
While the 159 is generally very well built it's the detail things that when you compare it to the usual suspects in the segment really let it down. At 4 years old I have the paintwork worse than my 18 year old Fiat, paint flaking off the wheels and a drivers seat that frankly needs a retrim. Comparing this with friends cars from the German marques explains why you really need rose tints on to buy one. A serious upping of quality is definitely needed.
The Giulia looks great and I really hope AR succeed with this car, my feeling is though they seriously need to do some work to get any meaningful sales away from the mainstream products.
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