RE: Are Brits the worst drivers in Europe? PH Blog
Discussion
It's a combination of our Island Mentality, high population density/ traffic density, "historic" city centres and archaic / complex road design (primarily due to lack of space) that cause it.
Different trends persist in different countries, I'm sure.
I've only experienced France at any great length.
They are nice to cyclists, drive WAY too fast for any given set of conditions/vehicle, and are distinctly fazed by curves, corners and roundabouts.
The speed part is a function of the size of the country. If you want to get somewhere TODAY in France, you need to press on a bit...
Different trends persist in different countries, I'm sure.
I've only experienced France at any great length.
They are nice to cyclists, drive WAY too fast for any given set of conditions/vehicle, and are distinctly fazed by curves, corners and roundabouts.
The speed part is a function of the size of the country. If you want to get somewhere TODAY in France, you need to press on a bit...
Porsche911R said:
we have been letting in millions of people into the UK year on year for 10 years, none have passed a UK driving test.
what do you think will happen ?
Since they have a licence from Germany, France, Spain, Belelux etc etc I think they'll be fine.what do you think will happen ?
In Germany, for example, you have to do an 8 hour first aid course, plus a theory and road test, which I believe it more than in Ingerland?
Too many people trying to drive absolutely everywhere makes for horrific congestion and aggressive stressed out drivers who only have themselves to blame for the mess they have created.
As a commuting cyclist life becomes more dangerous each year and more of the road network becomes unsafe for cycling as traffic cascades off main routes onto every viable rat run. The growth in car dependency has ruined the UK for cycling as well as driving.
As a commuting cyclist life becomes more dangerous each year and more of the road network becomes unsafe for cycling as traffic cascades off main routes onto every viable rat run. The growth in car dependency has ruined the UK for cycling as well as driving.
Coming from someone who lives and commutes in the South East.
It's bloody dreadful. I try my best to just take a step back and roll with it, but at times I'm stunned by the sheer volume of complete and utter stupid f
king s. It's difficult not to find yourself steaming out the ears at just how incompetent and at times down right dangerous some people are around here.
But what can you do? Lack of police on the road and an increase of cars means it will only ever get worse.
It's bloody dreadful. I try my best to just take a step back and roll with it, but at times I'm stunned by the sheer volume of complete and utter stupid f
king s. It's difficult not to find yourself steaming out the ears at just how incompetent and at times down right dangerous some people are around here. But what can you do? Lack of police on the road and an increase of cars means it will only ever get worse.
I've seen some true dollops in the UK nearly have huge accidents, but overall people are too angry and in too much of a rush, no time to pay attention which causes so many near misses.
But while over in France last year it was on another level. I was passed by a French biker riding beyond his abilities and spending the majority of time on the wrong side of the road, 3 corners later and his bike is banana shaped shaped and he's in a bush. Same road 2 nights later, returing from a relaxed day on the beach, a twingo comes past me on a blind bend and proceeds to drive the next half a mile on the wrong side of the road around blind bends missing cars by a whisker.
French motorways are brilliant however, always seem to be empty and people do move out of the way.
But while over in France last year it was on another level. I was passed by a French biker riding beyond his abilities and spending the majority of time on the wrong side of the road, 3 corners later and his bike is banana shaped shaped and he's in a bush. Same road 2 nights later, returing from a relaxed day on the beach, a twingo comes past me on a blind bend and proceeds to drive the next half a mile on the wrong side of the road around blind bends missing cars by a whisker.
French motorways are brilliant however, always seem to be empty and people do move out of the way.
I absolutely disagree. The OP has judged the near empty (and expensive ) autoroutes as comparable to our far far more crowded and free motorways. Drive around Cologne/Dusseldorf/Dortmund in rush hour and then make a comparison re Germany and half an hour spent on the Paris ring motorways is enough to entirely discredit what you say. They're truly awful.
There's a reason we have the best (or amongst the best) road death rates in Europe and its not because we are bad drivers.
There's a reason we have the best (or amongst the best) road death rates in Europe and its not because we are bad drivers.
DMN said:
Belgium and Holland are much, much worse.
100% this. Never in my life have I seen worse driving.I'm convinced that the Dutch Highway code say's,
"When joining a motorway, make directly for the left hand lane as you own it and they are trespassing"
"kracht dan de auto het invoeren van de snelweg" (translates to "Force over car entering motorway" OR FOCUM for short).
Porsche911R said:
we have been letting in millions of people into the UK year on year for 10 years, none have passed a UK driving test.
I find the hoggers NON British people , it's just harder to tell now they have been here so long they are now on UK plates.
new inflows to the UK in 2014 was 641,000 people all with non UK driving tests !
what do you think will happen ?
remember to VOTE out of Europe in June ;-)
Sorry to press the pedant button but someone has to take you to task on this.I find the hoggers NON British people , it's just harder to tell now they have been here so long they are now on UK plates.
new inflows to the UK in 2014 was 641,000 people all with non UK driving tests !
what do you think will happen ?
remember to VOTE out of Europe in June ;-)
It's not millions, is it? The figure you've put forward without any substantiation is a little over half of one million, and that, from first impressions of your post, is the inflow. The net increase is around half that figure, if you believe the headlines in some of our newspapers - regularly reported around the 300k - 350k mark.
As for the nationality of the transgressors, how do you know? Do you get out and ask them at the lights?
It's a shame because I also think getting out has its merits but badly formed arguments like the above don't do the case any favours.
Try a big Italian city Rome for example then try again with us being the worst in Europe.
The Germans may have better lane discipline than us but God help you if you get caught in the fast lane at anything below 120mph on the autobahn there will soon be a fat Getman in his 5l Merc flashing his lights and forcing you back into a slow lane pronto!
The Germans may have better lane discipline than us but God help you if you get caught in the fast lane at anything below 120mph on the autobahn there will soon be a fat Getman in his 5l Merc flashing his lights and forcing you back into a slow lane pronto!
2gins said:
Porsche911R said:
we have been letting in millions of people into the UK year on year for 10 years, none have passed a UK driving test.
I find the hoggers NON British people , it's just harder to tell now they have been here so long they are now on UK plates.
new inflows to the UK in 2014 was 641,000 people all with non UK driving tests !
what do you think will happen ?
remember to VOTE out of Europe in June ;-)
Sorry to press the pedant button but someone has to take you to task on this.I find the hoggers NON British people , it's just harder to tell now they have been here so long they are now on UK plates.
new inflows to the UK in 2014 was 641,000 people all with non UK driving tests !
what do you think will happen ?
remember to VOTE out of Europe in June ;-)
It's not millions, is it? The figure you've put forward without any substantiation is a little over half of one million, and that, from first impressions of your post, is the inflow. The net increase is around half that figure, if you believe the headlines in some of our newspapers - regularly reported around the 300k - 350k mark.
As for the nationality of the transgressors, how do you know? Do you get out and ask them at the lights?
It's a shame because I also think getting out has its merits but badly formed arguments like the above don't do the case any favours.
Porsche911R said:
we have been letting in millions of people into the UK year on year for 10 years, none have passed a UK driving test.
I find the hoggers NON British people , it's just harder to tell now they have been here so long they are now on UK plates.
new inflows to the UK in 2014 was 641,000 people all with non UK driving tests !
what do you think will happen ?
remember to VOTE out of Europe in June ;-)
So, how exactly do you know that they're non-British? I'm the third person to ask you this, and I note that you haven't answered yet. Now, having lived and worked all over Europe at various times I can safely say that you can't tell someone's nationality simply by looking at them. Please, do explain how you've identified these non-British drivers? I find the hoggers NON British people , it's just harder to tell now they have been here so long they are now on UK plates.
new inflows to the UK in 2014 was 641,000 people all with non UK driving tests !
what do you think will happen ?
remember to VOTE out of Europe in June ;-)
I'm tempted to reply to little Englander above but I'd rather keep this thread about driving, and I expect most of us would too. The roads of France and Germany are full of foreigners, including us Brits. Drive on the motorways of Northern France at any time of year and you'll find plenty of UK number plates.
Most of it is down to what the "norm" is. In France you get on the motorway and stick your left indicator on straight away, leaving it on until you want to exit, when you turn it off. The country's far less populated than ours and is well-covered by motorways that you have to pay for, so our view of it is generally driving utopia.
Germany has lots of de-restricted autobahns and people are used to lane discipline as it avoids getting rear-ended by an AMG Merc driving at 150 mph. When they're clogged up though, they're absolute hell, just like anywhere else. In town pedestrians get right of way, as they should and people tend not to speed, at least compared with here.
In the South of Europe, anything goes. Traffic lights are optional.
The biggest problem here is that while the rules are there, they're rarely enforced, and when they are, it's mostly speed. A recent headline on the BBC website banged on about some idiot who was caught doing 150 on the M6 toll. He was also driving at 70+ through the streets of Birmingham, but no, 150mph on an empty motorway is the important bit apparently.
Personally I find the drivers around London the most courteous as they tend to let you out. When I go back to Scotland, where I grew up, they'll do anything they can to stop you, even if they gain nothing from it. There are exceptions of course.
Most of it is down to what the "norm" is. In France you get on the motorway and stick your left indicator on straight away, leaving it on until you want to exit, when you turn it off. The country's far less populated than ours and is well-covered by motorways that you have to pay for, so our view of it is generally driving utopia.
Germany has lots of de-restricted autobahns and people are used to lane discipline as it avoids getting rear-ended by an AMG Merc driving at 150 mph. When they're clogged up though, they're absolute hell, just like anywhere else. In town pedestrians get right of way, as they should and people tend not to speed, at least compared with here.
In the South of Europe, anything goes. Traffic lights are optional.
The biggest problem here is that while the rules are there, they're rarely enforced, and when they are, it's mostly speed. A recent headline on the BBC website banged on about some idiot who was caught doing 150 on the M6 toll. He was also driving at 70+ through the streets of Birmingham, but no, 150mph on an empty motorway is the important bit apparently.
Personally I find the drivers around London the most courteous as they tend to let you out. When I go back to Scotland, where I grew up, they'll do anything they can to stop you, even if they gain nothing from it. There are exceptions of course.
I think at least part of the problem is our traffic density. If you compare french or German motorways to ours then they tend (generally) to be much less busy. It's easier to get wound up, tailgate or be sit in the middle lane if there is tons of traffic all doing different speeds. It's not an excuse, but in reality probably part of the issue. I've seen equally bellendish behaviour on the continent when traffic has been busy. That said, the Germans do seem good at getting out of the way when someone us travelling in the fast lane of the autobahn at warp speed.
patmahe said:
Leins said:
I firmly believe it's worse here in Ireland than it is in Britain. But strangely the average driving speeds are also lower here I think, as that's very much been the only focus of "policing" over recent years, with the roll-out of moveable speed cameras
Not judging by the last time I was in Britain (Birmingham) the competitiveness of drivers on congested motorways is at times quite scary. Very few people seem to leave a margin for error and most seem to have a 'me first' mentality. It could just be a result of more traffic on the roads due to greater population density though.Some of the incidents I've witnessed in Ireland in the last few months alone I never experienced in 11 years of living in England (driving up the wrong way on a dual-carriageway, around the wrong way on roundabouts, down the wrong way on a motorway slip-road, etc, etc.)
Whilst I feel the standard of driving here in the UK can be poor (lane discipline and such forth) we aren't a patch on some of our continental neighbours imo. I have driven quite extensively in Spain and the roads, particularly the smaller, local ones, along with the standard of driving is terrible and that isn't a patch on some of the Eastern European nations - bedlam.
Porsche911R said:
we have been letting in millions of people into the UK year on year for 10 years, none have passed a UK driving test.
I find the hoggers NON British people , it's just harder to tell now they have been here so long they are now on UK plates.
new inflows to the UK in 2014 was 641,000 people all with non UK driving tests !
what do you think will happen ?
remember to VOTE out of Europe in June ;-)
A nice piece of casual racism there.I find the hoggers NON British people , it's just harder to tell now they have been here so long they are now on UK plates.
new inflows to the UK in 2014 was 641,000 people all with non UK driving tests !
what do you think will happen ?
remember to VOTE out of Europe in June ;-)
DMN said:
Belgium and Holland are much, much worse.
I've driven in France, Spain, Belgium, Netherlands, Germany, Austria and Italy, and out of that lot, the Belgians stand out as by far the worst all round, although the Italian love of tailgating can be mildly alarming. I love Germany for the lane discipline above all else. Lane hogging is simply not tolerated. For that, and the enlightened approach to speed limits, I always enjoy driving there.I haven't worked out what it is about the Belgians that prevents them from changing lanes without yanking on the wheel and veering, or refusing to indulge in any form of observation or signalling. And driving around Brussels at anything approaching peak time is plain terrifying. They are, on the whole, lunatics (and not in a good way).
Geneva to the UK doesn't accurately represent the driving standards found across Europe. Try further South, parts of Spain and Italy are as bad if not worse than anything you'll come across in the UK.
As someone who has driven between 20-40k a year for the last few years (although admittedly I always take the train into London), I actually don't think UK standards are that bad.
As someone who has driven between 20-40k a year for the last few years (although admittedly I always take the train into London), I actually don't think UK standards are that bad.
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