RE: Are Brits the worst drivers in Europe? PH Blog
Discussion
pppppppppppppppp said:
I'm tempted to reply to little Englander above but I'd rather keep this thread about driving, and I expect most of us would too. The roads of France and Germany are full of foreigners, including us Brits. Drive on the motorways of Northern France at any time of year and you'll find plenty of UK number plates.
Most of it is down to what the "norm" is. In France you get on the motorway and stick your left indicator on straight away, leaving it on until you want to exit, when you turn it off. The country's far less populated than ours and is well-covered by motorways that you have to pay for, so our view of it is generally driving utopia.
Germany has lots of de-restricted autobahns and people are used to lane discipline as it avoids getting rear-ended by an AMG Merc driving at 150 mph. When they're clogged up though, they're absolute hell, just like anywhere else. In town pedestrians get right of way, as they should and people tend not to speed, at least compared with here.
In the South of Europe, anything goes. Traffic lights are optional.
The biggest problem here is that while the rules are there, they're rarely enforced, and when they are, it's mostly speed. A recent headline on the BBC website banged on about some idiot who was caught doing 150 on the M6 toll. He was also driving at 70+ through the streets of Birmingham, but no, 150mph on an empty motorway is the important bit apparently.
Personally I find the drivers around London the most courteous as they tend to let you out. When I go back to Scotland, where I grew up, they'll do anything they can to stop you, even if they gain nothing from it. There are exceptions of course.
I think you've hit on part of the problem; the lesson now is that as long as you stick to the speed limit at all costs, you can drive like an utter Knut in every other respect...Most of it is down to what the "norm" is. In France you get on the motorway and stick your left indicator on straight away, leaving it on until you want to exit, when you turn it off. The country's far less populated than ours and is well-covered by motorways that you have to pay for, so our view of it is generally driving utopia.
Germany has lots of de-restricted autobahns and people are used to lane discipline as it avoids getting rear-ended by an AMG Merc driving at 150 mph. When they're clogged up though, they're absolute hell, just like anywhere else. In town pedestrians get right of way, as they should and people tend not to speed, at least compared with here.
In the South of Europe, anything goes. Traffic lights are optional.
The biggest problem here is that while the rules are there, they're rarely enforced, and when they are, it's mostly speed. A recent headline on the BBC website banged on about some idiot who was caught doing 150 on the M6 toll. He was also driving at 70+ through the streets of Birmingham, but no, 150mph on an empty motorway is the important bit apparently.
Personally I find the drivers around London the most courteous as they tend to let you out. When I go back to Scotland, where I grew up, they'll do anything they can to stop you, even if they gain nothing from it. There are exceptions of course.
Combined with collapsing, rubbish roads full of congestion, traffic irritating schemes, traffic lights phased to make pubic transport look less miserable, etc, etc, people's patience gets tryed and frayed until the slightest thing sends them into Falling Down mode.
I also agree that rush hour drivers (the company car brigade) tend to be faster, but more courteous/co-operative. Just before crush hour, the sloth combined with arrogance and incompetence increases considerably.
I like Germany the best; they follow the rules to stereotype, the slightest transgression is dealt with by a horn fanfare and there IS no mercy in the left lane!
Milemuncher207 said:
Riley Blue said:
Anyone who thinks the British are the worst drivers in Europe either isn't very observant or needs to cross the Channel more often, or both.
This. I think the driving standard in the UK compare favourably to many areas of the continent.Ok, so I have a little authority on this subject. I'm a Brit that lives in Belgium during most weeks, the SE of UK most of the rest of the time but with pied-á-terre's in both Southern France (Rhone Alp), Italy (Madonna di Campliglio) and Greece (Peloponnese, sorta) and work for a large EU corporation with major sites in most EU states, a lot of which I will drive to, because I like driving my Über-barge (2014 S8).
In more defence (?!) of the Belgians. It's partly because the road system is terrible, partly because in the new eco-world they've had to switch off the lights on the motorways, partly because driving after a few lovely Belgian beers is seen as "acceptable" even by the Politie (just a wee fine if you're not too drunk.. come and get your licence in the morning when you're sober) but mainly because frankly driving is the third or forth thing they are actually doing in the car after making a few calls, texting their mates, snapchatting and doing their hair it's just a bit mad. Drive defensively with purpose and you'll be ok, provided you don't use a roundabout and stay the hell away from trams/busses in Brussels.
Germans, as Dan said can be a bit belligerent but I never mind this because who minds a few miles at 120kmh when you can "wind it up considerably" later on. Driving in big cities (Munich and Berlin particularly) can highlight the similarities between the Brits and the Germans (for there are many) and you can be a victim of Lane/Light/Jam rage. That said you're rarely more than 50 yards from the plod, so things rarely escalate in my experience, unlike the UK where I have seen many many fights over stupid things.
Italy. Hey, they're not actually that bad once you have the concept that the rear view is not really relevant (Why on earth do you need to know what's behind you?!) and you drive with confidence and, like i said, "authority". Faff and they'll eat you for breakfast and you'll be convinced you've ended up on Imola itself. Gods racetrack is Italy, no question. Rome/Milan/Naples. It's chaos, accept and roll with it.
France. Autoroutes and anywhere outside of Paris and Nice - fine. If they're in your way, give them a wee flash and a respectful distance and they'll just move, simples. Lane etiquette is on the whole, good. Slightly worse in the Nord Pas, but I sight the Brit influence in this. Same climate, same temper.
Spain (and Portugal). Well, there's no-one there so driving is great. Nobody really cares again, and if you're in a hurry, that just confuses them. Roads are lovely too, but lack of funds starting to show on some major routes.
Greece. Utterly insane but bloody good fun. Fiery tempers and superb ability to flagrantly flout every sensible road rule. I've seen more E63's driving sideways in clouds of rubber smoke in Athens than I have Highway Policemen. The greeks are terrible drivers (as anyone that's got a taxi on holiday will testify) but they are all superbly wonderful people that are having a tough time so I love them all. Good hearts, good brakes!
Austria. Dull but very disciplined. Cliché of the whole country.
Switzerland. Follow the rules. Everyone else does. Get ready for some epic traffic jams in the ski season!
Netherlands and Luxy. Pretty Good, actually, probably some of the best technical drivers outside of Scandinavia. The Dutch however do not appreciate foreigners (or anyone really) speeding, best to respect their way of life, you're a guest after all.
That's all I can really comment on with any considerable experience. I remember that Poland is full of trucks!
Brits just take themselves way way too seriously once inside their vehicles. Lane etiquette is frankly non-existant. Nobody appears to have any consideration for others. Everyone has an axe of some sort to grind whether that be the dashcam mob to the infamous white-van-man. It's true that statistically UK's roads are way safer than most, but they are hugely overcrowded and we do seem to spend more on our cars than others so have the latest safety tech maybe?? I love driving on UK roads in some ways because the UK is the UK, beautiful, green etc, but motorways are a huge chore and city driving is just mad. Why, in the name of the big sky fairy, does it actually matter?? You're going to be late?? So what?. etc etc
Ramble over. This is all of course subjective and entirely my own opinion. I'm never right unless my wife lets me and I've used up my goes this week...
Bon Weekend all.
In more defence (?!) of the Belgians. It's partly because the road system is terrible, partly because in the new eco-world they've had to switch off the lights on the motorways, partly because driving after a few lovely Belgian beers is seen as "acceptable" even by the Politie (just a wee fine if you're not too drunk.. come and get your licence in the morning when you're sober) but mainly because frankly driving is the third or forth thing they are actually doing in the car after making a few calls, texting their mates, snapchatting and doing their hair it's just a bit mad. Drive defensively with purpose and you'll be ok, provided you don't use a roundabout and stay the hell away from trams/busses in Brussels.
Germans, as Dan said can be a bit belligerent but I never mind this because who minds a few miles at 120kmh when you can "wind it up considerably" later on. Driving in big cities (Munich and Berlin particularly) can highlight the similarities between the Brits and the Germans (for there are many) and you can be a victim of Lane/Light/Jam rage. That said you're rarely more than 50 yards from the plod, so things rarely escalate in my experience, unlike the UK where I have seen many many fights over stupid things.
Italy. Hey, they're not actually that bad once you have the concept that the rear view is not really relevant (Why on earth do you need to know what's behind you?!) and you drive with confidence and, like i said, "authority". Faff and they'll eat you for breakfast and you'll be convinced you've ended up on Imola itself. Gods racetrack is Italy, no question. Rome/Milan/Naples. It's chaos, accept and roll with it.
France. Autoroutes and anywhere outside of Paris and Nice - fine. If they're in your way, give them a wee flash and a respectful distance and they'll just move, simples. Lane etiquette is on the whole, good. Slightly worse in the Nord Pas, but I sight the Brit influence in this. Same climate, same temper.
Spain (and Portugal). Well, there's no-one there so driving is great. Nobody really cares again, and if you're in a hurry, that just confuses them. Roads are lovely too, but lack of funds starting to show on some major routes.
Greece. Utterly insane but bloody good fun. Fiery tempers and superb ability to flagrantly flout every sensible road rule. I've seen more E63's driving sideways in clouds of rubber smoke in Athens than I have Highway Policemen. The greeks are terrible drivers (as anyone that's got a taxi on holiday will testify) but they are all superbly wonderful people that are having a tough time so I love them all. Good hearts, good brakes!
Austria. Dull but very disciplined. Cliché of the whole country.
Switzerland. Follow the rules. Everyone else does. Get ready for some epic traffic jams in the ski season!
Netherlands and Luxy. Pretty Good, actually, probably some of the best technical drivers outside of Scandinavia. The Dutch however do not appreciate foreigners (or anyone really) speeding, best to respect their way of life, you're a guest after all.
That's all I can really comment on with any considerable experience. I remember that Poland is full of trucks!
Brits just take themselves way way too seriously once inside their vehicles. Lane etiquette is frankly non-existant. Nobody appears to have any consideration for others. Everyone has an axe of some sort to grind whether that be the dashcam mob to the infamous white-van-man. It's true that statistically UK's roads are way safer than most, but they are hugely overcrowded and we do seem to spend more on our cars than others so have the latest safety tech maybe?? I love driving on UK roads in some ways because the UK is the UK, beautiful, green etc, but motorways are a huge chore and city driving is just mad. Why, in the name of the big sky fairy, does it actually matter?? You're going to be late?? So what?. etc etc
Ramble over. This is all of course subjective and entirely my own opinion. I'm never right unless my wife lets me and I've used up my goes this week...
Bon Weekend all.
Motormatt said:
Geneva to the UK doesn't accurately represent the driving standards found across Europe. Try further South, parts of Spain and Italy are as bad if not worse than anything you'll come across in the UK.
The drivers of Naples have one rule - don't hit anything.Traffic lights are optional, as are give way signs. Great fun
Porsche911R said:
we have been letting in millions of people into the UK year on year for 10 years, none have passed a UK driving test.
I find the hoggers NON British people , it's just harder to tell now they have been here so long they are now on UK plates.
new inflows to the UK in 2014 was 641,000 people all with non UK driving tests !
what do you think will happen ?
remember to VOTE out of Europe in June ;-)
Full retard. I find the hoggers NON British people , it's just harder to tell now they have been here so long they are now on UK plates.
new inflows to the UK in 2014 was 641,000 people all with non UK driving tests !
what do you think will happen ?
remember to VOTE out of Europe in June ;-)
Get a C6, honestly. It's so calming and relaxing I've yet to get pissed off in it yet and I commute to reading most days (horrid) sure everyone still drives like a bellend but I'm happy to waft along just brushing 60 on the dual carriage way. The light interior goes someway to that. It's like a nice sunrise or sunset. Chilled. No delusions of grandeur or speed. It is what it is.
I have lived in Italy where the driving was appalling but everybody smiled and nobody seemed to really loose their rag.
Now in Germany where the inhabitants are more likely to simply call the police to grass you up than to get out of the car to sort it themselves, even when there hasn't been any contact.
Now in Germany where the inhabitants are more likely to simply call the police to grass you up than to get out of the car to sort it themselves, even when there hasn't been any contact.
PTF said:
I drove through france when i was younger and was impressed by the lane discipline, and how renault clio diesels (which everyone seemed to be driving) were happy sitting at 90+ all day long.
In my experience the title should be "Are Brits that live further south than the midlands the worst drivers in Europe".
I hate driving south. The aggression and competitiveness of drivers is appalling. Not just men too. Women also drive with their eyes on stalks.
My biggest issue living round here (lincolnshire) is people sticking at 40 behind a lorry and not overtaking when there is a clear opportunity.
Hmmm. In my experience the title should be "Are Brits that live further south than the midlands the worst drivers in Europe".
I hate driving south. The aggression and competitiveness of drivers is appalling. Not just men too. Women also drive with their eyes on stalks.
My biggest issue living round here (lincolnshire) is people sticking at 40 behind a lorry and not overtaking when there is a clear opportunity.
Well I am an ex Yorkshireman who lives in Surrey (3 years now) and I must admit that in the first 2 months I nearly died more times than I did in 7 years driving up north, however I have now adapted to this and find it extremely frustrating when I go back to East Yorkshire to see the family. People drive so f
king slowly, its like you all are waiting to die. I overtake people in perfectly legal and safe bits of road and people flash me. You can all go fk yourselves. Consider the amount of traffic in Surrey compared to up north and you'll understand why people drive like this - things need to keep moving. Roundabouts have their own rules down here too.
Theres a youtuber - electricleafman or something and he drives about beeping at people all the time for absolutely NO reason what so ever and thats how I feel about you guys now.
Worse place to drive in Europe, Zurich without question.
Outside of Zurich is pretty tame, but inside they are mental!
I've driven all over Europe with work and they are without question the worst, trust me they make London and Paris look tame.
The Italians are generally good drivers, but everyone thinks they are a racing driver and as good as the latest top F1 driver for Ferrari once you assume this everything is fine.
The Belgian's are not the worst drivers they just have the worst roads.
Outside of Zurich is pretty tame, but inside they are mental!
I've driven all over Europe with work and they are without question the worst, trust me they make London and Paris look tame.
The Italians are generally good drivers, but everyone thinks they are a racing driver and as good as the latest top F1 driver for Ferrari once you assume this everything is fine.
The Belgian's are not the worst drivers they just have the worst roads.
TL;DR: No
Want proof? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by...
Remember this is a worldwide list, not just Europe. Click on the headings to sort by that field. All the stats below start at the lowest figure, for which data is available.
Road fatalities per 100,000 inhabitants per year
Federated States of Micronesia 1.9
Sweden 2.8
Kiribati 2.9
United Kingdom 2.9
Road fatalities per 100,000 motor vehicles
San Marino 1.8
Finland 4.4
Sweden 4.7
Switzerland 4.7
United Kingdom 5.1
Road fatalities per 1 billion vehicle km
Sweden 3.5
United Kingdom 3.6
(Belgium 7.3)
Personal anecdotes and Daily Mail kneejerk reactions aren't helpful for extrapolating an overall picture. Never let the truth get in the way of a good story eh.
Want proof? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by...
Remember this is a worldwide list, not just Europe. Click on the headings to sort by that field. All the stats below start at the lowest figure, for which data is available.
Road fatalities per 100,000 inhabitants per year
Federated States of Micronesia 1.9
Sweden 2.8
Kiribati 2.9
United Kingdom 2.9
Road fatalities per 100,000 motor vehicles
San Marino 1.8
Finland 4.4
Sweden 4.7
Switzerland 4.7
United Kingdom 5.1
Road fatalities per 1 billion vehicle km
Sweden 3.5
United Kingdom 3.6
(Belgium 7.3)
Personal anecdotes and Daily Mail kneejerk reactions aren't helpful for extrapolating an overall picture. Never let the truth get in the way of a good story eh.
annodomini2 said:
Worse place to drive in Europe, Zurich without question.
Outside of Zurich is pretty tame, but inside they are mental!
.
Swiss are frustrated because if they step out of line they'll be a fine in the post.Outside of Zurich is pretty tame, but inside they are mental!
.
So, within the limits they're pushy.
Kinda of funny being tailgated at 124km/hr and letting a big V8 past at 126km/hr.
Then again, Zurich is full of foreigners
UK drivers are godlike by comparison with US drivers, and drivers here in Vancouver, BC where I live.
Slow, dozy, selfish, unaware, bloody-minded, simply flat out dangerous - this is the norm in the Pacific Northwest. Lane discipline is non-existent, with many believing that the outside lane is the only lane for highway driving and the kerb lane is only for getting on and off the highway. When a traffic light turns greed from red it is treated with bemused wonder and there follows a period when the driver tries to remember what a green light means for the driver. Most fail to understand the simple roundabout, and no-one, nut no-one, believes a turn signal is necessary when using a roundabout.
Add in ridiculously low speed limits in BC (80km/h - 50mph is common on freeways in urban areas, 90km/h is the norm and 100 km/h is seen occasionally in the wild backwoods), plus overzealous traffic cops and the mix is just awful.
I could go on. and on. and on......
Before coming back here, I never thought I could yearn for UK roads and UK drivers, but believe me they would be a vast improvement over the lot we have out here.
Slow, dozy, selfish, unaware, bloody-minded, simply flat out dangerous - this is the norm in the Pacific Northwest. Lane discipline is non-existent, with many believing that the outside lane is the only lane for highway driving and the kerb lane is only for getting on and off the highway. When a traffic light turns greed from red it is treated with bemused wonder and there follows a period when the driver tries to remember what a green light means for the driver. Most fail to understand the simple roundabout, and no-one, nut no-one, believes a turn signal is necessary when using a roundabout.
Add in ridiculously low speed limits in BC (80km/h - 50mph is common on freeways in urban areas, 90km/h is the norm and 100 km/h is seen occasionally in the wild backwoods), plus overzealous traffic cops and the mix is just awful.
I could go on. and on. and on......
Before coming back here, I never thought I could yearn for UK roads and UK drivers, but believe me they would be a vast improvement over the lot we have out here.
Milemuncher207 said:
This. I think the driving standard in the UK compare favourably to many areas of the continent.
Not my experience. Ok better than a lot in Southern and Eastern Europe,but compared to our near neighbours, rubbish.
The Brits are speed obsessed, to the exclusion of everything else.
Drive like an utter idiot, but as long as the speed camera doesn't catch you, then you are OK.
Coppers are noticeably absent and standards are low.
If 10% of the effort that gets spent on speed control, got spent on
something important like tailgating, inattention or lane discipline
then I'd be much happier.
Odd that the UK still is one of the few countries in Europe without
motorway driving as standard. FFS how crap is that !
Odd further that the UK has one of the easiest driving tests in Europe.
Visiting Polish builders are better trained.
Odd even further that the UK has one of the lowest motorway speed limits
and most strictly enforced in Europe.
Add in the woeful congestion on the motorway and it's easy to see
why I am very much looking forward to driverless cars. Load less stress.
marcosgt said:
Clearly didn't travel through Italy, ..... or Malta.
M.
This.M.
Although while not that disciplined, thinking that (particularly) parking regs apply only to others, the Maltese are not that bad. Were much worse. Using the phone while driving is endemic, stand by the side of the road and if you don't count 3 drivers a minute with phone to ear, the roads are not busy enough.
But in Italy, especially the South and Sicily, the cities are hell.
Unless you are the type to barge through and show everyone you're the boss (because everyone does that) you may as well hang up your car keys. No-one gives way whether it's your right of way or not.
Motorway driving is also "interesting" with many considering the hard shoulder to be the "convenience" lane when there are jams on the regular lanes, not to mention tailgating, and everyone driving at the speed of their choice, you are always overtaking and being overtaken unless you decide to become the slowest common denominator.
If there's any problem with UK driving it's the self righteous prats, other than that, "dix points" or near enough.
It's the aggression that makes me laugh in bewilderment.
Driving home today in a 30mph road and came upon the back of a queue at some roadworks, pretty usual thing, one lane had a hole in it with barriers around it with temporary lights controlling traffic flow.
About four cars are stopped in front of me where the lights have changed to red, but the last vehicle hasn't quite made it through.
Next thing I know some utter knobber is piling past me and the other four cars in front of me racing up behind the car who's "stuck" in the open lane.
It's bewildering that people are so stupid or angry or just whatever the hell is is that makes them drive like that.
Driving home today in a 30mph road and came upon the back of a queue at some roadworks, pretty usual thing, one lane had a hole in it with barriers around it with temporary lights controlling traffic flow.
About four cars are stopped in front of me where the lights have changed to red, but the last vehicle hasn't quite made it through.
Next thing I know some utter knobber is piling past me and the other four cars in front of me racing up behind the car who's "stuck" in the open lane.
It's bewildering that people are so stupid or angry or just whatever the hell is is that makes them drive like that.
The biggest issue on UK roads is the complete lack of knowledge on how to drive on a motorway or dual carridgeway. It has become the norm for drivers to drive on the middle lane and stay there when the inside lane is empty. Its lazy and it causes congestion.
When will the government start to do something? There should be a separate driving test for new drivers before they can venture onto a motorway. Foregin residents should be made to take a UK driving teat and prove they know the motorway rules. The police should be issuing £500 fines using the video camera and numberplate recognition cameras.
There should also be a £5000 fine for testing whilst driving. I have lost count of near misses seen due to idiots texting and swerving and braking late. Why do drivers speak on their phones when their cars have hands free??
Unless there are massive fines the driving discipline will just deteriorate further. Enough is enough. Patients, curtesy and manors need to replace rants and anger driving before someone gets killed because the person causing death wants to get home 3 minutes earlier or because someone chose a faster moving lane.
Big picture thinking required!!!
When will the government start to do something? There should be a separate driving test for new drivers before they can venture onto a motorway. Foregin residents should be made to take a UK driving teat and prove they know the motorway rules. The police should be issuing £500 fines using the video camera and numberplate recognition cameras.
There should also be a £5000 fine for testing whilst driving. I have lost count of near misses seen due to idiots texting and swerving and braking late. Why do drivers speak on their phones when their cars have hands free??
Unless there are massive fines the driving discipline will just deteriorate further. Enough is enough. Patients, curtesy and manors need to replace rants and anger driving before someone gets killed because the person causing death wants to get home 3 minutes earlier or because someone chose a faster moving lane.
Big picture thinking required!!!
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