RE: MG TF: You Know You Want To
Discussion
As someone who owned an Elise S2 and who used to sell MX5s for a living, I do find some of the comments here quite 'interesting'.
First, regarding the TF and the MK2 MX5 (which was the competitor at the time). The TF (as a 160) was considerably quicker then a 1.8 MX5 and the chassis had more grip. The ride was firmer and the body shell was quite a lot stiffer (the MX5 being one of the last cars I have driven that had scuttle shake/shimmy through the steering column). The TF also had a considerably larger and better shaped boot.
The MX5 had a much nicer gearbox and (for me) a more comfortable driving position. The interior was also better screwed together (though also very plasticky). The more compliant ride made it more comfortable on B-roads though I imagine the TF (comparing standard suspensions) felt more at home on the track. The steering on the MX5 had more weight/feel though this can be addressed by removing the electric steering fuse on the TF.
As for their problems, the MGF/TF suffers from HGF, issues with flimsy trim and subframe corrosion. The MX5 is generally mechanically reliable (the clutch can be a bit weak) but MK2s can suffer from quite serious corrosion issues - e.g. sills and the double skinned front chassis legs (if memory serves me correctly) that can render a car scrap due the the repair costs.
In comparison, the Lotus I owned (1.8 k-series sports tourer) was much quicker than either, handled better and had much more precise steering. The driving position was great (once you were in) and it looked and felt more exotic than any other small sports car at the time. It was also better on fuel than the MX5 (though smililar to the TF). However, that is leaked like a sieve, was difficult to get in/out of, had an awkward boot opening and an awkward hood made it much less practical than the MX5 or TF. Coupled to that was build quality that made a TF seem well made - trim pieces did come off and it certainly rattled. Having said that both the Elise and different Fs/TF I drove made my 78 MGB GT feel like a very solid and well made car...
On top of that you also should bear in mind that any k-series engined Elise will have exactly the same HGF potential as an F/TF, yet, unlike the MG, the Elise is not considered a rubbish car because of it!
As for a TF for £25k, I certainly would not pay that for one. If I were to put a Honda K20 in anything, it would definitely be an Elise (ideally purchased with a blown k-series). I think the conversion costs upwards of £10k. If I were to buy a TF, I would get as clean and low a mileage 160 as possible for circa £3-4K and have uprated gaskets + possibly comfort suspension fitted. If I were to buy an MX5 it would be a cheap MK1 or a much newer Mk3.5. If I were to buy another Elise (very tempting) it would have Toyota power.
First, regarding the TF and the MK2 MX5 (which was the competitor at the time). The TF (as a 160) was considerably quicker then a 1.8 MX5 and the chassis had more grip. The ride was firmer and the body shell was quite a lot stiffer (the MX5 being one of the last cars I have driven that had scuttle shake/shimmy through the steering column). The TF also had a considerably larger and better shaped boot.
The MX5 had a much nicer gearbox and (for me) a more comfortable driving position. The interior was also better screwed together (though also very plasticky). The more compliant ride made it more comfortable on B-roads though I imagine the TF (comparing standard suspensions) felt more at home on the track. The steering on the MX5 had more weight/feel though this can be addressed by removing the electric steering fuse on the TF.
As for their problems, the MGF/TF suffers from HGF, issues with flimsy trim and subframe corrosion. The MX5 is generally mechanically reliable (the clutch can be a bit weak) but MK2s can suffer from quite serious corrosion issues - e.g. sills and the double skinned front chassis legs (if memory serves me correctly) that can render a car scrap due the the repair costs.
In comparison, the Lotus I owned (1.8 k-series sports tourer) was much quicker than either, handled better and had much more precise steering. The driving position was great (once you were in) and it looked and felt more exotic than any other small sports car at the time. It was also better on fuel than the MX5 (though smililar to the TF). However, that is leaked like a sieve, was difficult to get in/out of, had an awkward boot opening and an awkward hood made it much less practical than the MX5 or TF. Coupled to that was build quality that made a TF seem well made - trim pieces did come off and it certainly rattled. Having said that both the Elise and different Fs/TF I drove made my 78 MGB GT feel like a very solid and well made car...
On top of that you also should bear in mind that any k-series engined Elise will have exactly the same HGF potential as an F/TF, yet, unlike the MG, the Elise is not considered a rubbish car because of it!
As for a TF for £25k, I certainly would not pay that for one. If I were to put a Honda K20 in anything, it would definitely be an Elise (ideally purchased with a blown k-series). I think the conversion costs upwards of £10k. If I were to buy a TF, I would get as clean and low a mileage 160 as possible for circa £3-4K and have uprated gaskets + possibly comfort suspension fitted. If I were to buy an MX5 it would be a cheap MK1 or a much newer Mk3.5. If I were to buy another Elise (very tempting) it would have Toyota power.
It's a fun engine I bet, but if you can overlook the reliability of the VVC 1.8 K series, it can be tweaked to go rather well. I have had 2 MGF's, the first one had been a track toy for the previous owner and looked standard from the outside, he was a chap in his 60's who also had a Panamera and an M5, so the car had been looked after. I had updated brakes, engine mods and suspension tweaks. It handled like a dream, and had a surprising amount of pace, never had the thing dyno tested but I was told it was near 200bhp by the chap I bought it from.
I eventually sold it when I was tempted by a Renaultsport Clio. Stupidest thing I've ever done car wise! Should really post this in the "keepers" thread...
I missed it so much that I bought another a few years on. It suffered brake failure on a country lane in Wiltshire and I had to use engine braking to get the damn thing to slow down. From one almost faultless MGF to one with a nightmare list of failings. A quick patch up job and I sold it on. Two opposite ends of the MG spectrum, heaven and hell!
Seeing this car makes me pine for the first one I had, which was also my first soft top...
It's not worth £25k though!
I eventually sold it when I was tempted by a Renaultsport Clio. Stupidest thing I've ever done car wise! Should really post this in the "keepers" thread...
I missed it so much that I bought another a few years on. It suffered brake failure on a country lane in Wiltshire and I had to use engine braking to get the damn thing to slow down. From one almost faultless MGF to one with a nightmare list of failings. A quick patch up job and I sold it on. Two opposite ends of the MG spectrum, heaven and hell!
Seeing this car makes me pine for the first one I had, which was also my first soft top...
It's not worth £25k though!
militantmandy said:
Eh!? Sit in the seat and swing yer legs in. Not rocket science!
That only works if you remove the roof or your own head before you start! 
The only chap I've known to use an Elise as a daily driver is a skinny 5'8" and even he found getting in and out to be a chore.
Whereas at 6'2" I found a TF suitable for daily use, but wished it was quicker in a straight line.
Obviously the Elise is a much more capable track car but it isn't a daily driver for anyone who wants to get in and out in a normal fashion.
Whilst the engine and layout may be the same, I can't see any connection whatsoever in the driving experience between an MGF/TF and an Elise. Even the engine characteristics seem poles apart, possibly due to the weight.
I'd agree that the Elise makes for a tiresome daily car though whereas the MG is far more "normal" for that purpose. Many do use Elises daily, including lanky folk. I tried it for all of a week and was fed up and reverted to a daily shed.
I'd agree that the Elise makes for a tiresome daily car though whereas the MG is far more "normal" for that purpose. Many do use Elises daily, including lanky folk. I tried it for all of a week and was fed up and reverted to a daily shed.
suffolk009 said:
I have a 6'3" tall friend who uses a VX220 every day. He did have to remove the seat runners and bolt the seat straight to the floor. But he gets in and out okay. I find it difficult, he tells me it's just a matter of practice.
I'm 6'3" and have had a few Elises and Exiges. Getting in and out is an infrequent issue and, once in, its a squeeze but not that uncomfortable in itself. It's more the foibles of a lightweight part-track car that ruin it as a daily experience and that would apply whether I were 5'3" or 6'3".
I can admire the car, I can appreciate someone loving a car enough to make it something rare and fun. For your own personal reasons I can't fault the absolute nutter who built it.
For me personally, I don't love MG TFs (at all actually) enough to even contemplate it at that price. No matter how quick.
It's like any modified car though, even if it's not my taste I can't help thinking, 'Fair play, if it makes them happy'.
For me personally, I don't love MG TFs (at all actually) enough to even contemplate it at that price. No matter how quick.
It's like any modified car though, even if it's not my taste I can't help thinking, 'Fair play, if it makes them happy'.
donkmeister said:
That only works if you remove the roof or your own head before you start!
The only chap I've known to use an Elise as a daily driver is a skinny 5'8" and even he found getting in and out to be a chore.
Whereas at 6'2" I found a TF suitable for daily use, but wished it was quicker in a straight line.
Obviously the Elise is a much more capable track car but it isn't a daily driver for anyone who wants to get in and out in a normal fashion.
Well if you're 6ft2 it's hardly a surprise that getting into a tiny sportscar is tricky :-)The only chap I've known to use an Elise as a daily driver is a skinny 5'8" and even he found getting in and out to be a chore.
Whereas at 6'2" I found a TF suitable for daily use, but wished it was quicker in a straight line.
Obviously the Elise is a much more capable track car but it isn't a daily driver for anyone who wants to get in and out in a normal fashion.
I've been in and out of many Elise's and whilst not like getting out of a "normal" car I've never found it a problem. Certainly not a car for fatties though! If you're thinking about a small, mid-engined sportscar as a daily, surely you can put up with a little inconvenience here and there?
donkmeister said:
The only chap I've known to use an Elise as a daily driver is a skinny 5'8" and even he found getting in and out to be a chore.
I use mine as a daily and I'm six foot. As long as there is space to open the door properly, I find it no harder to get into and only marginally harder to get out of than any other car. If there isn't space to open the door you can always roll back the roof and climb over. Edited by kambites on Wednesday 16th March 12:11
militantmandy said:
Well if you're 6ft2 it's hardly a surprise that getting into a tiny sportscar is tricky :-)
I've been in and out of many Elise's and whilst not like getting out of a "normal" car I've never found it a problem. Certainly not a car for fatties though! If you're thinking about a small, mid-engined sportscar as a daily, surely you can put up with a little inconvenience here and there?
It's not the getting in and out thats an inconvenience for using daily, its the road noise, condensation, water leaking into the cabin, rain on the sills that soak your suit trousers, the pedals being lovely but unsuitable for anything other than driving trainers or converse with a foot size over 7, the boat aperture taking only small and odd shape cases, the crashing over rough surfaces, the low height meaning winter commuters sometimes don't see you etc etc etc.I've been in and out of many Elise's and whilst not like getting out of a "normal" car I've never found it a problem. Certainly not a car for fatties though! If you're thinking about a small, mid-engined sportscar as a daily, surely you can put up with a little inconvenience here and there?
Cracking car but as an everydayer, meh. A Boxster does the daily without anywhere near the compromise and has a lot of the fine handling traits too. Just a shame its a Porker..
Fair play to those who use them everyday. I have long said its where on the scale you are prepared to compromise between the stark simplicity that makes a brilliant lightweight sports car like an Elise or a Caterham, or how much along the scale you go to the bits that add weight but creature comfort. I'm not that much of a masochist.
Shnozz said:
It's not the getting in and out thats an inconvenience for using daily, its the road noise, condensation, water leaking into the cabin, rain on the sills that soak your suit trousers, the pedals being lovely but unsuitable for anything other than driving trainers or converse with a foot size over 7, the boat aperture taking only small and odd shape cases, the crashing over rough surfaces, the low height meaning winter commuters sometimes don't see you etc etc etc.
Cracking car but as an everydayer, meh. A Boxster does the daily without anywhere near the compromise and has a lot of the fine handling traits too. Just a shame its a Porker..
Fair play to those who use them everyday. I have long said its where on the scale you are prepared to compromise between the stark simplicity that makes a brilliant lightweight sports car like an Elise or a Caterham, or how much along the scale you go to the bits that add weight but creature comfort. I'm not that much of a masochist.
Can't really argue with any of that! Having lived with a track focused MX-5 for quite a while, I would say I could manage an Eilse OK, but I can see it wouldn't be for everyone.Cracking car but as an everydayer, meh. A Boxster does the daily without anywhere near the compromise and has a lot of the fine handling traits too. Just a shame its a Porker..
Fair play to those who use them everyday. I have long said its where on the scale you are prepared to compromise between the stark simplicity that makes a brilliant lightweight sports car like an Elise or a Caterham, or how much along the scale you go to the bits that add weight but creature comfort. I'm not that much of a masochist.
Shnozz said:
It's not the getting in and out thats an inconvenience for using daily, its the road noise, condensation, water leaking into the cabin, rain on the sills that soak your suit trousers, the pedals being lovely but unsuitable for anything other than driving trainers or converse with a foot size over 7, the boat aperture taking only small and odd shape cases, the crashing over rough surfaces, the low height meaning winter commuters sometimes don't see you etc etc etc.
I think a lot of is comes down to what sort of driving you do and what facilities you have. The only journeys I do which are longer than about ten miles are for pleasure; I pretty much never use dual carriageways or motorways so road noise isn't really an issue. I have a dehumidified garage and my car's roof has never leaked so condensation isn't really a problem. I haven't worn a suit since I got married six years ago so that's a bit of a moot point too. 
Yes the boot is a bit small but whilst mine is my daily, it's not the only car I have access to - the wife has an Octavia with a tow bar which does the tip runs fine.
The only real issue I've had with an Elise as a daily driver is the problem of constantly getting dazzled by other people's HiD dipped beams; both cars coming the other way and SUVs sitting behind me in traffic with the headlights pointing straight into all three mirrors.
I've certainly never been in a situation where I could live with an MGTF (or any other two-seater sports car) as a daily driver but not an Elise.
Edited by kambites on Wednesday 16th March 13:35
donkmeister said:
That only works if you remove the roof or your own head before you start!
The only chap I've known to use an Elise as a daily driver is a skinny 5'8" and even he found getting in and out to be a chore.
Whereas at 6'2" I found a TF suitable for daily use, but wished it was quicker in a straight line.
Obviously the Elise is a much more capable track car but it isn't a daily driver for anyone who wants to get in and out in a normal fashion.
A secretary at work used her Elise every single day until she reached retirement a year or so back. If a lady in her early 60's can get in an out of an Elise, there is no excuse for a younger, able bodied person.The only chap I've known to use an Elise as a daily driver is a skinny 5'8" and even he found getting in and out to be a chore.
Whereas at 6'2" I found a TF suitable for daily use, but wished it was quicker in a straight line.
Obviously the Elise is a much more capable track car but it isn't a daily driver for anyone who wants to get in and out in a normal fashion.
Having owned five in varying guises I have to wonder if 300-odd BHP is too much.
Part of the fun of the car is that you can enjoy it at semi-legal speeds. 160 BHP is really enough and I'd not really be wanting to hustle one along at 150 miles an hour. The interior would disintegrate!
24 K is daft money. I appreciate the work ingenuity and engineering that has gone into this but it is just a modified car. If it was a rare car, a limited edition or something like the Cheetah supercharged MGF or something made for R and D by the factory then I could see it attracting a premium - not 20-odd grand's worth though..
Would I like it? As an MGF/TF fan, I would but in the end it's an old modified TF and the price should reflect this.
Part of the fun of the car is that you can enjoy it at semi-legal speeds. 160 BHP is really enough and I'd not really be wanting to hustle one along at 150 miles an hour. The interior would disintegrate!
24 K is daft money. I appreciate the work ingenuity and engineering that has gone into this but it is just a modified car. If it was a rare car, a limited edition or something like the Cheetah supercharged MGF or something made for R and D by the factory then I could see it attracting a premium - not 20-odd grand's worth though..
Would I like it? As an MGF/TF fan, I would but in the end it's an old modified TF and the price should reflect this.
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