Confessions from quality control - The Frontera factory
Discussion
We got taken round Longbridge when I was doing my MSc. This was in '97 so the last original minis were being made along with Rover 100s, 200s and 400s. A far cry from it's seventies industrial relations nightmare hey days it was still a fairly comedic place.
My degree is in ergonomics, psychology etc and one of the PhD students taking us round with a Rover manager was working with Rover at the time all about safety culture, manufacturing process improvement etc etc.
So, one of my course mates asked one of the line workers what would happen if his colleague injured himself badly (I think they were fitting windows to Rover 200s). I could see the manager chap's hopeful eyes looking for the correct response of pulling the cord that would stop the line, directing a colleague to get medical help etc etc. His hopes were, of course, dashed.
The chap simply said (in a broad brummie accent if you want to imagine it clearly) "Dunno mate; laugh?"
My degree is in ergonomics, psychology etc and one of the PhD students taking us round with a Rover manager was working with Rover at the time all about safety culture, manufacturing process improvement etc etc.
So, one of my course mates asked one of the line workers what would happen if his colleague injured himself badly (I think they were fitting windows to Rover 200s). I could see the manager chap's hopeful eyes looking for the correct response of pulling the cord that would stop the line, directing a colleague to get medical help etc etc. His hopes were, of course, dashed.
The chap simply said (in a broad brummie accent if you want to imagine it clearly) "Dunno mate; laugh?"
InitialDave said:
This is great, thanks for posting it.
People may also be interested in this BL quality control training film I found on youtube a while back:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTCfJKNE2hg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FU-tuY0Z7nQPeople may also be interested in this BL quality control training film I found on youtube a while back:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTCfJKNE2hg
Have you approached ladybird?
http://www.amazon.co.uk/How-Works-Wife-Ladybirds-G...
http://www.amazon.co.uk/How-Works-Wife-Ladybirds-G...
The Crack Fox said:
Thanks. If anyone has kids (say 6-10 years old) and has a sense of humour, then I'd be happy to email over a PDF copy of my children's picture book.
I don't think I have the patience to persevere with all that, and finding agents and publishers etc, although I've had plenty of stuff published in mags, books are a different game.
I don't think I have the patience to persevere with all that, and finding agents and publishers etc, although I've had plenty of stuff published in mags, books are a different game.
Used to work with a bloke who worked at Vauxhall Liverpool in the 70s.
Reckoned they had a bar at the plant and would have six pints for lunch that was until he left the Chuck key in the Chuck of his lathe, when he switched it on nearly taking his head off.
Was a bit of a story teller so no idea how much truth were in his tales.
Reckoned they had a bar at the plant and would have six pints for lunch that was until he left the Chuck key in the Chuck of his lathe, when he switched it on nearly taking his head off.
Was a bit of a story teller so no idea how much truth were in his tales.
With all the petrol heads here I'm expecting a lot of stories.
I worked at a foundry and knew a few people at Rover back in the 90's.
Even back in the early 80's I knew of school friends parents at BL constantly on strike.
The money they were paid though was very very good.
Rover in the 90's paid some good wages, a heck of a lot more than the workers at the foundry
I worked at a foundry and knew a few people at Rover back in the 90's.
Even back in the early 80's I knew of school friends parents at BL constantly on strike.
The money they were paid though was very very good.
Rover in the 90's paid some good wages, a heck of a lot more than the workers at the foundry
The Crack Fox said:
Yes. All of them, back in the '90s. I used to visit Honda at Swindon and Rover at Cowley, for example. They both made almost exactly the same car, Rover 600 and the Honda Accord. It was really interesting to see how the two companies made essentially the same product.
Thanks for the kind words, folks, I honestly expected a PH keyboard warrior style 'meh', there's more stories like this on my blog which PH don't allow me to mention. I'll write up my experience at Skoda in the '90s next, they'd not long been bought by VW and there were all sorts of shenanigans.
Stand by...
I worked at Honda in the mid 90s. One day a couple of transporters turned up at Swindon full of UK built Hondas, courtesy of Rover. They were due to go to Switzerland, and Swiss spec cars had a sunroof as standard. As such Rover had dutifully cut holes in the roof. No sunroof installed mind you, just a hole. 20-ish cars left the factory like that!Thanks for the kind words, folks, I honestly expected a PH keyboard warrior style 'meh', there's more stories like this on my blog which PH don't allow me to mention. I'll write up my experience at Skoda in the '90s next, they'd not long been bought by VW and there were all sorts of shenanigans.
Stand by...
My ex FIL bought a brand new Frontera in 1997, with the VM 2.5 TDS engine,the facelifted dashboard, and coil spring suspension rather than leaf springs. Last year of production before the facelift car I believe. It was not at all my cup of tea and I waited with glee for it to turn out to be the total bag of s
t I'd heard all Fronteras to be.
Anyway he punted it on last year after 18 years of trouble free service, someone did a bit of welding to it and it's still driving around. Nobody was more surprised and disappointed than I.
Thoroughly enjoyed the story, and on a totally unrelated note I have had an enjoyable evening reading this site here:
http://www.motorpunk.co.uk/
;-)
t I'd heard all Fronteras to be.Anyway he punted it on last year after 18 years of trouble free service, someone did a bit of welding to it and it's still driving around. Nobody was more surprised and disappointed than I.
Thoroughly enjoyed the story, and on a totally unrelated note I have had an enjoyable evening reading this site here:
http://www.motorpunk.co.uk/
;-)
Edited by dme123 on Saturday 19th March 23:19
For a short spell I worked for a Japanese component manufacurer, the factory was originally British owned and many original staff and management remained.
The place was a total joke, I thought it would be like British Aerospace but it was actually more like British Leyland.
The Japanese staff were like company programmed robots, they simply could not see the bad attitude, laziness and apathy of the Brits, it simply did not cross their minds that anyone could behave in a manner detrimental to increased production. Their whole philosophy was based on constant improvement and increasing efficiency whilst the Brits just wanted to get the job done and go home, any Japanese worker who became anglicised was returned home, meaning that ther was always a barrier between them and us.
Whilst I was there a batch of sub standard products went through scores of QC checks despite as usual generating piles of signed paperwork and data. When the customer received them and found out with a random check, they were returned and a total s***storm ensued.
Every scenario was enacted to see how this had happened, eventually I believe faulty measuring equipment was blamed. The Idea that anyone would just sign off bad parts through laziness would never have occurred to the Japs in a million years, no one on the British side ever let on of course.
Most of the staff though were honest, hard working decent people, in my section each man produced nearly four times the output of his counterpart in the far east but were dragged down by poor management and the vast culture gap between Japan and Britain.
There is probably a book to be written about the short history of Japanese owned manufacturing in my town but I suspect it would end up on the fiction shelves.
The place was a total joke, I thought it would be like British Aerospace but it was actually more like British Leyland.
The Japanese staff were like company programmed robots, they simply could not see the bad attitude, laziness and apathy of the Brits, it simply did not cross their minds that anyone could behave in a manner detrimental to increased production. Their whole philosophy was based on constant improvement and increasing efficiency whilst the Brits just wanted to get the job done and go home, any Japanese worker who became anglicised was returned home, meaning that ther was always a barrier between them and us.
Whilst I was there a batch of sub standard products went through scores of QC checks despite as usual generating piles of signed paperwork and data. When the customer received them and found out with a random check, they were returned and a total s***storm ensued.
Every scenario was enacted to see how this had happened, eventually I believe faulty measuring equipment was blamed. The Idea that anyone would just sign off bad parts through laziness would never have occurred to the Japs in a million years, no one on the British side ever let on of course.
Most of the staff though were honest, hard working decent people, in my section each man produced nearly four times the output of his counterpart in the far east but were dragged down by poor management and the vast culture gap between Japan and Britain.
There is probably a book to be written about the short history of Japanese owned manufacturing in my town but I suspect it would end up on the fiction shelves.
Benmac said:
So, one of my course mates asked one of the line workers what would happen if his colleague injured himself badly (I think they were fitting windows to Rover 200s). I could see the manager chap's hopeful eyes looking for the correct response of pulling the cord that would stop the line, directing a colleague to get medical help etc etc. His hopes were, of course, dashed.
The chap simply said (in a broad brummie accent if you want to imagine it clearly) "Dunno mate; laugh?"
I don't want to give away anything about where I work but I can guarantee that you'd get exactly the same response. But that doesn't mean that people don't care about what they're doing or that if it really happened they wouldn't know what to do.The chap simply said (in a broad brummie accent if you want to imagine it clearly) "Dunno mate; laugh?"
Fascinating thread, I can only echo the people that have said more please.
As far as eating sandwiches in half built cars is concerned I heard a similar story about Land Rover, it seemed as if whatever Honda influenced quality improvements had happened at Longbridge completely bypassed LR. Can't help but wonder if that attitude is the root of the quality problems at JLR being debated elsewhere on here.
Chris1255 said:
As far as eating sandwiches in half built cars is concerned I heard a similar story about Land Rover, it seemed as if whatever Honda influenced quality improvements had happened at Longbridge completely bypassed LR. Can't help but wonder if that attitude is the root of the quality problems at JLR being debated elsewhere on here.
Some years back we were discussing at work how badly built BL cars could be. Somebody mentioned that his dad bought a new maxi back in the day, and upon removing the rear seat found a cheese sandwich.....Sprayed in the same crap brown as the rest of the car!
Chris1255 said:
As far as eating sandwiches in half built cars is concerned I heard a similar story about Land Rover, it seemed as if whatever Honda influenced quality improvements had happened at Longbridge completely bypassed LR. Can't help but wonder if that attitude is the root of the quality problems at JLR being debated elsewhere on here.
Maybe back in the 90s and 2000s, but these days they are six sigma'd, lean'd and 5S'd to the point of being an example company for other manufacturing sites to follow ChemicalChaos said:
Maybe back in the 90s and 2000s, but these days they are six sigma'd, lean'd and 5S'd to the point of being an example company for other manufacturing sites to follow
And yet have woeful quality, rank at the bottom of every survey, and still need to get build niggles on new cars fixed under warranty.I am sure Toyota etc. have a lot to learn about QC from JLR, but not in a good way
AW111 said:
And yet have woeful quality, rank at the bottom of every survey, and still need to get build niggles on new cars fixed under warranty.
I am sure Toyota etc. have a lot to learn about QC from JLR, but not in a good way
And yet it completely fails to dim their desirability. There's a lesson there somewhere for people making investment decisions. The real irony is that in every reliability survey their now bankrupt former parent always comes out much higher. Really would be nice to see them climbing up the rankings.I am sure Toyota etc. have a lot to learn about QC from JLR, but not in a good way
ch108 said:
I occasionally see an 02 plate Frontera still driving around my local area. Looks totally immaculate too. I always wonder how it has survived and still going! Before seeing this one, I hadn't seen a Frontera in years.
the series 2 frontera is a rather different vehicle from the series 1 the series 1 was rushed out modified from the original Light utility based izuzu Mu / Amigo just to meet European legislative stuff and that's it;- it seemed to be a mixture of japanese hard angle injection moulded van interior with 80s US build quality ; the series 2 was rather more 'Opelised' in terms of materials, controls etc
having driven both series 1 and sereis 2 frontera they are light years apart as well - although my experience of the series 2 is biased by it being and 'authorities' spec one with the v6 petrol ...
ChemicalChaos said:
Chris1255 said:
As far as eating sandwiches in half built cars is concerned I heard a similar story about Land Rover, it seemed as if whatever Honda influenced quality improvements had happened at Longbridge completely bypassed LR. Can't help but wonder if that attitude is the root of the quality problems at JLR being debated elsewhere on here.
Maybe back in the 90s and 2000s, but these days they are six sigma'd, lean'd and 5S'd to the point of being an example company for other manufacturing sites to follow Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff