Confessions from quality control - The Frontera factory
Discussion
cjs racing. said:
wildoliver said:
(like the salesman who ordered a 3 door instead of a 5 door and at hand over told the elderly owners who noticed his error he had already ordered the rear doors and they would arrive in parts in about 2 weeks, 1 week after he left of course).
There is no way that is true. Even the dumbest customer would see through that.But in fairness I would never have believed it either.
It's only one of many totally ridiculous stories that should not be true but sadly are that I experienced.
I worked for a contractor installing a camera laser guaging system to make sure evey body was within tolerance on the rover 214/6 line at longbridge in 1988 during the 2 week summer shutdown. On the first shift afterwards, the guaging system rejected so many bodies that they switched it off and never used it again. I was later employed by a large motor manufacturer where they regularly turned the water pressure down on the water test for audit cars, managers overiding us and signing off dozens of "wip" cars(work in progress) to sales with faults rather than rectifying, one i remember was noisy diff,s/gearboxes, they were under pressure as there could be hundreds of "wip" cars on site requiring rectification. Another time a car was fitted with different style alloy either side, and again a non sunroof headlining was fitted to a sunroof car.
A friend used to PDI Rovers, some of the stories he has would keep you laughing in tears for hours on end. Cars with so many bits missing, wrong engines for the model, wrong wiring looms you name it he had to fix them. They used to keep new "spares" cars to make good ones for customer cars.
Pothole said:
Morale is dreadful at Solihull from what I saw, albeit only for a few months on the XE line (BiW) and they employ gormless idiots...at most levels, given their stated policy of promoting from within. Their policy of indirect employment through Manpower (and other agencies for the dirty, menial jobs) creates a heirarchical, us and them atmosphere which hs toxic to any idea of real team work...("you can't sit there, that's a JLR seat and you're agency" in the break room etc) the way middle managers treated line workers was disgusting, frankly, so it was hardly surprise to find that most of those line workers were not interested in doing a great job, just getting away with the bare minimum to survive.
My company supplies JLR, I deal with them frequently. Solihull plant DEFINITELY has an old-school unionist attitude, which isn't as apparent at Speke and Castle Brom. Overall though there's a definite 'attitude' in JLR - they think they're the biggest and best game in town and treat suppliers like sh't...which is bizarre given they're far less organised than BMW (who also have an arrogance, but a more Germanic matter-of-fact one and more deserved) or Toyota (who sort-of define 'organised' 
), and JLR are frequently the cause of supply-chain issues, not that you'd realise it from the noise they make when we occasionally cause one...As for quality...at my old place we were VERY glad we had end-of-line vision systems in place recording the kit as it was packed to show it was good...when the JLR KD (overseas final-assembly) operation in India opened they hit us with dozens and dozens of quality issues for damage, which was eventually traced to the goods-in guys in Pune opening the protective bags with Stanley knives!!! Not their problem at all...had to be the supplier!
Tango13 said:
Many years ago my dad bought a new Norton 650 Atlas that kept seizing it's push rods. He eventualy took it back to the factory where they discovered the oil feed lines were full of solder from where the banjo fittings had been braized on.
He described the factory as ancient and decrepit, even by the standards of the 1960's!
Most of the british bike makers were like that, old cramped premises, often with knackered pre-war machinery, turning out useable product because the machinists and fitters knew how to stack the tolerances to get a functional engine. Norton and AMC were particularly noted for this. Once the jap competition heated up and 'the british disease' torpedoed any remaining vestiges of productivity near enough the whole lot vanished within a decade.He described the factory as ancient and decrepit, even by the standards of the 1960's!
Deerfoot said:
Oh, and if you have anything from the MGF line, mine was a 1997 car, I'm all ears!
I was at Longbridge doing a summer job in 97; I might have screwed your doorcards on! 
mike74 said:
veccy208 said:
Sad that all these industries with promising starts were killed by lazy staff who wanted to do as little as possible for more money.
That's the baby boomers for you, the most lazy, feckless, entitled, privileged and self indulgent generation to ever have existed... they ought to be lined up against the wall for the way they've raped and ruined this country. 
holes, who were clueless, and thought treating the workforce as slaves was the best way. Which naturally resulted in the workers putting two fingers upto them. Don't forget, the workers in the 1950's were to a large extent the soldiers of WW2 who beat the Germans and Japs.Drive Blind said:
I've worked in manufacturing all my days, albeit not automotive.
At the end of the day the factory producing the goods don't really give a feck about quality. It's all about the numbers and the profit margin. High volume plus low cost = win.
I've witnessed first hand many attempts to focus on quality but it always affects the numbers so it very quickly gets ignored.
Iv known a company make and send out scrap for 2 weeks because the management wouldn't shutdown things for an hour to swap out a defective tool.At the end of the day the factory producing the goods don't really give a feck about quality. It's all about the numbers and the profit margin. High volume plus low cost = win.
I've witnessed first hand many attempts to focus on quality but it always affects the numbers so it very quickly gets ignored.
The morons actually thought that sending rubbish was better than being 1% down on the numbers for the month.
Strangely they didn't stay in business for very long.
hidetheelephants said:
Tango13 said:
Many years ago my dad bought a new Norton 650 Atlas that kept seizing it's push rods. He eventualy took it back to the factory where they discovered the oil feed lines were full of solder from where the banjo fittings had been braized on.
He described the factory as ancient and decrepit, even by the standards of the 1960's!
Most of the british bike makers were like that, old cramped premises, often with knackered pre-war machinery, turning out useable product because the machinists and fitters knew how to stack the tolerances to get a functional engine. Norton and AMC were particularly noted for this. Once the jap competition heated up and 'the british disease' torpedoed any remaining vestiges of productivity near enough the whole lot vanished within a decade.He described the factory as ancient and decrepit, even by the standards of the 1960's!
The British bike industry didn't do themselves any favours by not investing in the future. They had a stranglehold on the market so could sold the bikes that they wanted to make not what the customers wanted to buy. When the Japanese offered the market large capacity multi-cylinder bikes the market bit their hands off.
Interestingly the big four Japanese manufactures made the same mistake in the late 80's early 90's, they all offered the market more or less the exact same products, 600cc fours, 750cc fours etc and refused to innovate.
Ducati winning their first World Superbike title in 1990 was a wake-up call for the Japanese, there was speculation a few years back that either Suzuki or Kawasaki might go tits up due to increased competition from the Europeans.
dudleybloke said:
Drive Blind said:
I've worked in manufacturing all my days, albeit not automotive.
At the end of the day the factory producing the goods don't really give a feck about quality. It's all about the numbers and the profit margin. High volume plus low cost = win.
I've witnessed first hand many attempts to focus on quality but it always affects the numbers so it very quickly gets ignored.
Iv known a company make and send out scrap for 2 weeks because the management wouldn't shutdown things for an hour to swap out a defective tool.At the end of the day the factory producing the goods don't really give a feck about quality. It's all about the numbers and the profit margin. High volume plus low cost = win.
I've witnessed first hand many attempts to focus on quality but it always affects the numbers so it very quickly gets ignored.
The morons actually thought that sending rubbish was better than being 1% down on the numbers for the month.
Strangely they didn't stay in business for very long.
Tango13 said:
hidetheelephants said:
Tango13 said:
Many years ago my dad bought a new Norton 650 Atlas that kept seizing it's push rods. He eventualy took it back to the factory where they discovered the oil feed lines were full of solder from where the banjo fittings had been braized on.
He described the factory as ancient and decrepit, even by the standards of the 1960's!
Most of the british bike makers were like that, old cramped premises, often with knackered pre-war machinery, turning out useable product because the machinists and fitters knew how to stack the tolerances to get a functional engine. Norton and AMC were particularly noted for this. Once the jap competition heated up and 'the british disease' torpedoed any remaining vestiges of productivity near enough the whole lot vanished within a decade.He described the factory as ancient and decrepit, even by the standards of the 1960's!
The British bike industry didn't do themselves any favours by not investing in the future. They had a stranglehold on the market so could sold the bikes that they wanted to make not what the customers wanted to buy. When the Japanese offered the market large capacity multi-cylinder bikes the market bit their hands off.
Interestingly the big four Japanese manufactures made the same mistake in the late 80's early 90's, they all offered the market more or less the exact same products, 600cc fours, 750cc fours etc and refused to innovate.
Ducati winning their first World Superbike title in 1990 was a wake-up call for the Japanese, there was speculation a few years back that either Suzuki or Kawasaki might go tits up due to increased competition from the Europeans.
I went to the LDV Maxus factory which was an eye opener.
I can answer the Fiat one as well as I've been to that factory in Turkey. They build Punto, Linea and Fiorino/Nemo/Bipper and the bodies come down the same line. Doors are painted and fitted up separately and then fitted to the car. Doesn't explain the rear seat though
I can answer the Fiat one as well as I've been to that factory in Turkey. They build Punto, Linea and Fiorino/Nemo/Bipper and the bodies come down the same line. Doors are painted and fitted up separately and then fitted to the car. Doesn't explain the rear seat though
robinessex said:
mike74 said:
veccy208 said:
Sad that all these industries with promising starts were killed by lazy staff who wanted to do as little as possible for more money.
That's the baby boomers for you, the most lazy, feckless, entitled, privileged and self indulgent generation to ever have existed... they ought to be lined up against the wall for the way they've raped and ruined this country. holes, who were clueless, and thought treating the workforce as slaves was the best way. Which naturally resulted in the workers putting two fingers upto them. Don't forget, the workers in the 1950's were to a large extent the soldiers of WW2 who beat the Germans and Japs.Now I'm an agency worker in a large organisation where no one really cares what I do. I work away and try to take pride in my work but its hard when no one cares if you do something or not. I wonder how the 'don't care' culture could be got rid of in the UK.
The Crack Fox said:
*Al* said:
I work in vehicle quality in Honda Swindon, it's not perfect but nowhere near the Frontera plant the OP described! Japanese efficiency I guess.
If there's interest, I'll write up my experience of the Rover 600 line at Cowley versus the Honda Accord line at Swindon, from the nineties. Essentially the same car, but built a different way, as you'd imagine. I actually bought a new Accord in '96, did 120k miles in 2 years and utterly abused it, never lifted the bonnet. IIRC it had a 6k mile service interval (ie, once a month at that mileage) and that was the only time it got cleaned. Very, very different to Rover. hora said:
eltax91 said:
Bookmarked
+1 great read and the motorpunk site dme123 said:
Oh, good! 
The Crack Fox said:
bomma220 said:
Great thread, well done OP! Bookmarked. Will this make it to the 'PH Legendary Threads' hall of fame? I reckon it will...
Ha! Thanks. This is but one chapter! I'll upload my Skoda story soon. It involves a sanatorium and bribery.
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