Anyone else falling out of love with driving a 'fast' car?
Discussion
Nope not fall out of love with mine!
Highlands last week 2.2k miles in 8 days!
IMG_0880 by Mikey K 650S, on Flickr
Highlands last week 2.2k miles in 8 days!
IMG_0880 by Mikey K 650S, on Flickrjohnwilliams77 said:
You must not go far. I doubt it attracts a lot of looks in cities.
I drove 100 miles today just for the sake of it, through glorious scenery and mainly empty roads. It makes a change to use the car properly than just driving it to work and back.I've had plenty of positive comments on it. It's not exactly a run of the mill car. However, you keep trying to piss on my chips if it makes you feel better; I don't really give a.......
TameRacingDriver said:
I drove 100 miles today just for the sake of it, through glorious scenery and mainly empty roads. It makes a change to use the car properly than just driving it to work and back.
I've had plenty of positive comments on it. It's not exactly a run of the mill car. However, you keep trying to piss on my chips if it makes you feel better; I don't really give a.......
I am not, I actually said I am glad you enjoy it. I am just surprised at peoples reactions to it, that's allI've had plenty of positive comments on it. It's not exactly a run of the mill car. However, you keep trying to piss on my chips if it makes you feel better; I don't really give a.......
johnwilliams77 said:
I am not, I actually said I am glad you enjoy it. I am just surprised at peoples reactions to it, that's all
Don't get me wrong, its not like people are queuing up to talk about it, but I definitely notice more looks in this than in my previous car, which itself was not a bad looking car IMO (FN2 Civic Type-R) although yeah, its a hot hatch!Posing wasn't exactly one of my criteria when I bought it, I like the look of it but sometimes it's nice to blend in! I could have got a 130i instead, but if you don't need the practicality why would you
so called said:
Noise.
It's got to sound good.
Agreed.It's got to sound good.
Still..to extend my example further:
-you are not a regular track day participant.
-you do not live in or close to Germany
So we have a Caterham which covers all possible domestic legal driving options apart from comfort.
Why would you buy a very quick car?...( let us be charitable and assume it is not because you need emergency acceleration when you have to avoid something. )
I think the reason to have a really quick car (lets use a Ferrari 488 as an example, and the UK as its residence ) is:
-its cool
-endless untapped capability
-sounds pretty good
-one time trip on the autobahn
OR:
-people find remote roads and drive the wheels off it, breaking every law. (PH posters condemn such behaviour since the " Speed Matters" branding was dropped.
I know exactly why I drive quick cars.
-regular tracking
-go to Germany often
-I will admit to the occasional indiscretion on remote roads, but not to the level that would stretch a really quick car.
The OP's point is a very good one.
Still, lets say that your PorFerraBenzley is ready
to be built to your spec and, like the good old days, you can choose your gear ratios:
The PorFerraBenzley can be ordered geared for 200MPH top speed. 0-60 in 4.8 secs
or:
the car be be ordered as a 120 MPH car. 0-60 in 2,8 secs. Suspension ,downforce, aerodynamics perfect for cornering.
They are the model 200 and the model 120. Which do you buy?
Neither. Porsche got it near perfect in the early 70s. The formula is actually rather simple but no one is making it.
1) 200 Bhp but must sound epic so a minimum 6 cylinders and N/A (caveat here in that is must be a real 200 Bhp or more not the fake GT86 200 horse).
2) Small so it fits down country roads nicely
3) Pretty proportions i.e. not ugly angular stuff like recent Japanese designs
4) Under 1100 Kg and ideally under 1000 Kg.
The closest thing to this formula would be a new MX5 with a load of tuning done to it but one would still have to like the look of it and the sound track, neither of which is within the same universe of attraction to a pre 74 911.
1) 200 Bhp but must sound epic so a minimum 6 cylinders and N/A (caveat here in that is must be a real 200 Bhp or more not the fake GT86 200 horse).
2) Small so it fits down country roads nicely
3) Pretty proportions i.e. not ugly angular stuff like recent Japanese designs
4) Under 1100 Kg and ideally under 1000 Kg.
The closest thing to this formula would be a new MX5 with a load of tuning done to it but one would still have to like the look of it and the sound track, neither of which is within the same universe of attraction to a pre 74 911.
BBR do a 190 package for the Mk4 MX5 for £2000 fitted Dyno’d and warranted. CarWow will quote you a dealer who will give you a £2,000 discount off a new one. Therefore you can get a new list price MX5 with 190bhp and under 1,100kg which is £20,000.
They will give you 0% finance on the first £10k for three years.
Its a No Brainer.
They will give you 0% finance on the first £10k for three years.
Its a No Brainer.
The real no brainer is the v6 Mazda engine which they could have put themselves in the MX-5 several years back but never did.
I agree though that the 190 package on a new 2.0 sport gets pretty close to my criteria, at the other much more expensive extreme end the current Lotus Exige V6 also gets pretty close.
I agree though that the 190 package on a new 2.0 sport gets pretty close to my criteria, at the other much more expensive extreme end the current Lotus Exige V6 also gets pretty close.
derin100 said:
Even when it should have been...it wasn't great!
Yesterday was warm(ish) and sunny. I was at a loose end so decided to take a drive to the mid-Wales coast (Oswestry to Aberdovey) just for fun. This is a 70 mile each way drive. I was in a reasonably 'fast' car (Z4 3.0Si Roadster). The scenery was beautiful both outbound and on the return via a different route.
I wanted to prove to myself that the OP isn't correct and that I shouldn't fall out of love with driving a 'fast' car.
This all sounds great on paper, doesn't it? But it wasn't. There was certainly no need for anything like the performance that even this car theoretically has to offer. Anything more would have just been an even greater waste.
The outward bound journey was spoilt. Firstly, by at least 5 miles of solid traffic jam due to a minor accident on the A5. Next, the majority of the remainder towards Machynlleth was then frustrated variously by: A massive tractor towing some foul smelling trailer of sh$t virtually the entire distance on the A458 from Shrewsbury to Welshpool without yielding to the queue of traffic behind. The duty of spoiling the experience of driving a 'fast' car was then taken over in turn by the slow moving car-transporter following him; who was then, in turn, relieved by the caravan following him! All were helped by at least two sets of temporary traffic lights for road works.
Once free of them, I was quickly held-back by an elderly gentleman driving through what might have been a very interesting twisty stretch of National Speed Limit road...at a maximum of 38 mph...being followed by two other cars who refused to overtake him. It probably wasn't safe to overtake him because of the blind bends so I don't blame them.
Once he and one of the others had turned off, I realised that the remaining car was also being driven by a dawdler! At this point frustration got the better of me and finally on one short stretch of straight I risked a fast overtaking manoeuvre to get past her. I say "risked" because it wasn't completely safe to do it. It was done out of pure frustration and that's one way accidents happen on these roads. They can be bad ones and I shouldn't have done it.
At only one point thereafter, and only for about 5 miles, was I 'free' and being chased by someone in a Transit van, who clearly had intimate local knowledge of the road and was doing a very good job of keeping me honest! This, I think, illustrates that knowledge of the road ahead is very important. More so than the car being driven on roads like this. I'm not a skilled racing driver but I don't think I'm that bad either yet I honestly don't think I could have driven much faster even if I had been in a car of vastly more performance...and cost!
The track environment aside, we're being sold a lie by manufacturers of 'fast' cars. On the public road, anywhere in the UK, they are pretty much pointless.
Anyone who says or thinks they can or do drive a modern 'fast' car at anything like the speeds that they can (theoretically) do, on these public roads, in rural Wales or Scotland, by "popping up there at the weekends", on to roads they don't intimately know, is either delusional, wantonly disregarding of their own and other road user's safety...or just simply a liar.
On the final approach to Aberdovey the SatNav decided to take me off the beaten track on to a completely empty road. Ideal! Yes, a road completely empty of cars...but not of sheep.
The return journey was, for different reasons, similarly frustrating.
There was nothing unusual, unfortunate or unlucky about these journeys. If I did it again today I'm sure that I would encounter a similar set of circumstances but maybe just in a different order.
Sadly, I'm coming to the conclusion that I have to agree with the OP.
See, I smoke around Devon in my Z3 2.8 daily and love pretty much every minute, just being out about with the roof down is a sheer delight when the weather is nice, and being able to give her a little 'brrrrrrrap' every so often just adds to the fun... Again, however, I have good local knowledge and so can usually identify good backroads to circumnavigate the chains of 40mph dawdlers... Yesterday was warm(ish) and sunny. I was at a loose end so decided to take a drive to the mid-Wales coast (Oswestry to Aberdovey) just for fun. This is a 70 mile each way drive. I was in a reasonably 'fast' car (Z4 3.0Si Roadster). The scenery was beautiful both outbound and on the return via a different route.
I wanted to prove to myself that the OP isn't correct and that I shouldn't fall out of love with driving a 'fast' car.
This all sounds great on paper, doesn't it? But it wasn't. There was certainly no need for anything like the performance that even this car theoretically has to offer. Anything more would have just been an even greater waste.
The outward bound journey was spoilt. Firstly, by at least 5 miles of solid traffic jam due to a minor accident on the A5. Next, the majority of the remainder towards Machynlleth was then frustrated variously by: A massive tractor towing some foul smelling trailer of sh$t virtually the entire distance on the A458 from Shrewsbury to Welshpool without yielding to the queue of traffic behind. The duty of spoiling the experience of driving a 'fast' car was then taken over in turn by the slow moving car-transporter following him; who was then, in turn, relieved by the caravan following him! All were helped by at least two sets of temporary traffic lights for road works.
Once free of them, I was quickly held-back by an elderly gentleman driving through what might have been a very interesting twisty stretch of National Speed Limit road...at a maximum of 38 mph...being followed by two other cars who refused to overtake him. It probably wasn't safe to overtake him because of the blind bends so I don't blame them.
Once he and one of the others had turned off, I realised that the remaining car was also being driven by a dawdler! At this point frustration got the better of me and finally on one short stretch of straight I risked a fast overtaking manoeuvre to get past her. I say "risked" because it wasn't completely safe to do it. It was done out of pure frustration and that's one way accidents happen on these roads. They can be bad ones and I shouldn't have done it.
At only one point thereafter, and only for about 5 miles, was I 'free' and being chased by someone in a Transit van, who clearly had intimate local knowledge of the road and was doing a very good job of keeping me honest! This, I think, illustrates that knowledge of the road ahead is very important. More so than the car being driven on roads like this. I'm not a skilled racing driver but I don't think I'm that bad either yet I honestly don't think I could have driven much faster even if I had been in a car of vastly more performance...and cost!
The track environment aside, we're being sold a lie by manufacturers of 'fast' cars. On the public road, anywhere in the UK, they are pretty much pointless.
Anyone who says or thinks they can or do drive a modern 'fast' car at anything like the speeds that they can (theoretically) do, on these public roads, in rural Wales or Scotland, by "popping up there at the weekends", on to roads they don't intimately know, is either delusional, wantonly disregarding of their own and other road user's safety...or just simply a liar.
On the final approach to Aberdovey the SatNav decided to take me off the beaten track on to a completely empty road. Ideal! Yes, a road completely empty of cars...but not of sheep.
The return journey was, for different reasons, similarly frustrating.
There was nothing unusual, unfortunate or unlucky about these journeys. If I did it again today I'm sure that I would encounter a similar set of circumstances but maybe just in a different order.
Sadly, I'm coming to the conclusion that I have to agree with the OP.
Edited by derin100 on Friday 1st April 11:56
I've never owned a really fast car. A Mk1 Impreza Turbo was the quickest thing I've owned until I bought my current 430 CLK.....but I do think owning a fast car must be immensely frustrating on a daily basis. That's why I have enjoyed my Mk2 MX5 so much. It isn't fast, but crucially it feels it...you can feel the thing moving around beneath you because it rolls a bit, it doesn't have loads of grip, but has an induction kit and sounds rorty when given beans. I really think that cars like this are the best compromise for the UK and just save something fast for trackdays and the odd early sunday morning blast into the country.....all these mega torque Audis and BMWs are I feel driven in such a "cock" fashion largely because they are like caged tigers, tuned for the ring and wanting to be let off the leash, but frustrated by the awfulness of daily driving on our crowded island...
..and yes a 1000/1100 KG coupe or sports car with about 200 BHP and RWD really would be ideal...shame no one makes one. The Toyota GT86 is about as close as it gets...
..and yes a 1000/1100 KG coupe or sports car with about 200 BHP and RWD really would be ideal...shame no one makes one. The Toyota GT86 is about as close as it gets...
Some interesting posts on here, some not so much,
IMHO there has to be more to a fast car than the fact it's fast. As already said, modern diesels are fast in relative terms.
Again, IMHO, I think it should also be how the car makes you feel plus how you feel about the car as a complete package.
I'm a bit of a crusty these days and over the years have had quite a few cars that were quick in their day, a year ago all the stars aligned (no, I don't really believe in that juff) and I got my hands on an E46 CSL. I know it isn't the fastest car in the world however it's the quickest thing I've had, which leads me onto the point I want to make.
I'm away 6 months of the year with work but the time when home is the time I'm quite happy to wander into the garage with a coffee and just have a walk around the car, sad but true! It isn't about how fast it is for me, it's how it gets you when you know the flying machine you're wandering around is yours, frustrating that you know you'll never have the ability, or opportunity, to drive the bloody thing anywhere near its limits, though rewarding to know that to get a manic grin when driving it you don't need to be going 100 mph and driving like a t
t, if you've been in one then you'll get what I mean. Just the whole ethos of the car is enough in my eyes to warrant having it. Don't get me wrong, it will get pushed if circumstances allow but I don't sit behind other cars bumbling along wishing they'd get a move on...it's life, deal with it!
So, for me, if a fast car is just that...a fast car, then yup, I think these days it's a waste of time. If it makes you feel as described in the previous paragraph, then it's worth every penny.
I live in the Midlands, which in itself isn't much to brag about. The only good thing is that there are many decent roads within a reasonable distance from me, and I regard that as a bonus
For general use when home, I have the polar opposite of what lurks in the garage..a Smart FourTwo!!
IMHO there has to be more to a fast car than the fact it's fast. As already said, modern diesels are fast in relative terms.
Again, IMHO, I think it should also be how the car makes you feel plus how you feel about the car as a complete package.
I'm a bit of a crusty these days and over the years have had quite a few cars that were quick in their day, a year ago all the stars aligned (no, I don't really believe in that juff) and I got my hands on an E46 CSL. I know it isn't the fastest car in the world however it's the quickest thing I've had, which leads me onto the point I want to make.
I'm away 6 months of the year with work but the time when home is the time I'm quite happy to wander into the garage with a coffee and just have a walk around the car, sad but true! It isn't about how fast it is for me, it's how it gets you when you know the flying machine you're wandering around is yours, frustrating that you know you'll never have the ability, or opportunity, to drive the bloody thing anywhere near its limits, though rewarding to know that to get a manic grin when driving it you don't need to be going 100 mph and driving like a t
t, if you've been in one then you'll get what I mean. Just the whole ethos of the car is enough in my eyes to warrant having it. Don't get me wrong, it will get pushed if circumstances allow but I don't sit behind other cars bumbling along wishing they'd get a move on...it's life, deal with it!So, for me, if a fast car is just that...a fast car, then yup, I think these days it's a waste of time. If it makes you feel as described in the previous paragraph, then it's worth every penny.
I live in the Midlands, which in itself isn't much to brag about. The only good thing is that there are many decent roads within a reasonable distance from me, and I regard that as a bonus
For general use when home, I have the polar opposite of what lurks in the garage..a Smart FourTwo!!
Edited by moktabe on Thursday 28th April 05:07
moktabe said:
I'm quite happy to wander into the garage with a coffee and just have a walk around the car, sad but true! It isn't about how fast it is for me, it's how it gets you when you know the flying machine you're wandering around is yours]
Ahh..... garage love. I spoke to a guy yesterday at work that does exactly the same with his Triumph Rocket. Hey, and why not. It's raining today where I am. I might go for a nose in the garage myself.moktabe said:
Some interesting posts on here, some not so much,
IMHO there has to be more to a fast car than the fact it's fast. As already said, modern diesels are fast in relative terms.
Again, IMHO, I think it should also be how the car makes you feel plus how you feel about the car as a complete package.
I'm a bit of a crusty these days and over the years have had quite a few cars that were quick in their day, a year ago all the stars aligned (no, I don't really believe in that juff) and I got my hands on an E46 CSL. I know it isn't the fastest car in the world however it's the quickest thing I've had, which leads me onto the point I want to make.
I'm away 6 months of the year with work but the time when home is the time I'm quite happy to wander into the garage with a coffee and just have a walk around the car, sad but true! It isn't about how fast it is for me, it's how it gets you when you know the flying machine you're wandering around is yours, frustrating that you know you'll never have the ability, or opportunity, to drive the bloody thing anywhere near its limits, though rewarding to know that to get a manic grin when driving it you don't need to be going 100 mph and driving like a tt, if you've been in one then you'll get what I mean. Just the whole ethos of the car is enough in my eyes to warrant having it. Don't get me wrong, it will get pushed if circumstances allow but I don't sit behind other cars bumbling along wishing they'd get a move on...it's life, deal with it!
So, for me, if a fast car is just that...a fast car, then yup, I think these days it's a waste of time. If it makes you feel as described in the previous paragraph, then it's worth every penny.
IMHO there has to be more to a fast car than the fact it's fast. As already said, modern diesels are fast in relative terms.
Again, IMHO, I think it should also be how the car makes you feel plus how you feel about the car as a complete package.
I'm a bit of a crusty these days and over the years have had quite a few cars that were quick in their day, a year ago all the stars aligned (no, I don't really believe in that juff) and I got my hands on an E46 CSL. I know it isn't the fastest car in the world however it's the quickest thing I've had, which leads me onto the point I want to make.
I'm away 6 months of the year with work but the time when home is the time I'm quite happy to wander into the garage with a coffee and just have a walk around the car, sad but true! It isn't about how fast it is for me, it's how it gets you when you know the flying machine you're wandering around is yours, frustrating that you know you'll never have the ability, or opportunity, to drive the bloody thing anywhere near its limits, though rewarding to know that to get a manic grin when driving it you don't need to be going 100 mph and driving like a t
t, if you've been in one then you'll get what I mean. Just the whole ethos of the car is enough in my eyes to warrant having it. Don't get me wrong, it will get pushed if circumstances allow but I don't sit behind other cars bumbling along wishing they'd get a move on...it's life, deal with it!So, for me, if a fast car is just that...a fast car, then yup, I think these days it's a waste of time. If it makes you feel as described in the previous paragraph, then it's worth every penny.
moktabe said:
it should also be how the car makes you feel plus how you feel about the car as a complete package.
Good point.Edited by moktabe on Thursday 28th April 05:07
The cars 'sense of occasion' is now often overlooked by many in the persuit of straight line speed.
This 'sense of occasion' is often not derived from the cars overall performance, but from as you rightly say, 'garage moments' such as merely walking round the car having a beer, just sitting in the car and not necessarily driving it, admiring the engine and certain aspects of the design etc etc.
I suppose this is the 'relationship' you have with the car. The reason why, after a drive in certain cars you have an attachment to, you turn round whilst walking away for another glimpse, whereas with others you simply walk and don t look back. To me, the 991 Turbo S fits this second category. Hugely rapid and capable machine, almost too efficient for its own good, but lack of character and driver involvement given in spades by more hardcore and essentially 'slower' models means there is no love lost.
I enjoy driving my car at low speeds, pootling to work and doing the daily grind as much as I enjoy grabbing it by the danglies and going for a proper drive down some twisties. Is it more boring commuting, rather than hooning? Yeah, but the RS can be soothing and (dare I say) comfortable when you want it, and with the flick of the RS button, engaging sport mode it changes character completely. It goes from a quiet, comfy cruiser to something that feels unrestrained, agile, fast, engaging and ultimately, fun. On a local B road, it's simply incredible.
I know that some people might not call my Megane "fast" but seeing as it can out handle and out accelerate most cars on the road, to me, it's a fast car.
You can enjoy a fast car in the UK, but in a city where it's all stop-start traffic, speed cameras, ridiculous speed limits, pedestrians, buses and all the crap that comes with driving in a city, performance cars wont have their limits tested at all, and are probably using less than 5% of their total potential, it is not enjoyable. You get on a quiet B road, and allow your car to "let its hair down" and go, then anything from a 50hp Ford Fiesta to a 500hp TVR can be fun.
It's not always what you drive, it's about where you drive it. My commute to work, going the long way home from my work includes some simply brilliant, near empty roads with everything from second gear hairpins to half mile straights where it's incredibly easy to get to silly speeds and sometimes after a stressful day at work i'll go the long way home through said roads and come home refreshed, relaxed and in a much better mood.
I know that some people might not call my Megane "fast" but seeing as it can out handle and out accelerate most cars on the road, to me, it's a fast car.
You can enjoy a fast car in the UK, but in a city where it's all stop-start traffic, speed cameras, ridiculous speed limits, pedestrians, buses and all the crap that comes with driving in a city, performance cars wont have their limits tested at all, and are probably using less than 5% of their total potential, it is not enjoyable. You get on a quiet B road, and allow your car to "let its hair down" and go, then anything from a 50hp Ford Fiesta to a 500hp TVR can be fun.
It's not always what you drive, it's about where you drive it. My commute to work, going the long way home from my work includes some simply brilliant, near empty roads with everything from second gear hairpins to half mile straights where it's incredibly easy to get to silly speeds and sometimes after a stressful day at work i'll go the long way home through said roads and come home refreshed, relaxed and in a much better mood.
BGarside said:
Buy an old school hot hatch and have fun driving at lower speeds. Moderns are overpowered, oversized, overweight and anaesthetised.
Older cars are narrower which means its possible to drive faster on narrow roads, which many A and B roads are in the UK.
I use my bicycles for local trips or walk and the car for longer trips. No fun in driving around towns or cities
Absolutely agree with this.Older cars are narrower which means its possible to drive faster on narrow roads, which many A and B roads are in the UK.
I use my bicycles for local trips or walk and the car for longer trips. No fun in driving around towns or cities
Get a car that is fun at 50. More fun, more of the time.
I have gone older than a hot hatch with a 1972 modified classic. Same thing applies though, smaller, lighter, less refined = more involving and more rewarding.
I think our perspective of a sports car is what's changed the most. When I was a teenager and first driving a 170bhp 325i was a fast car, no traction control, early version of ABS and anything sub 7 seconds to 60 was seen as very quick. If you look in comparison a normal diesel will manage this, even modest fast cars break the sub 5 second barrier. You can run out of road very quickly at those speeds, add the traction/stability controls and you need to drive faster and harder to get the buzz.
I had a few fast cars, 400bhp jag, 340bhp 135i etc I then decided to sell the lot, bought a A8 diesel to waft and a MX5. Last summer was the most fun I'd had in years, roof down, slamming it through the corners at break neck speed, most likely 40mph but it was just plain simple fun. I bought a MX5 with a Rover V8 in it late last year, a big engine but not a patch on modern cars but the noise, the lack of stability controls and just how connected you feel makes it twice the fun. I've seen a lot of other people doing this as well, sometimes having everything leaves you wanting for nothing
I had a few fast cars, 400bhp jag, 340bhp 135i etc I then decided to sell the lot, bought a A8 diesel to waft and a MX5. Last summer was the most fun I'd had in years, roof down, slamming it through the corners at break neck speed, most likely 40mph but it was just plain simple fun. I bought a MX5 with a Rover V8 in it late last year, a big engine but not a patch on modern cars but the noise, the lack of stability controls and just how connected you feel makes it twice the fun. I've seen a lot of other people doing this as well, sometimes having everything leaves you wanting for nothing
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