Anyone else falling out of love with driving a 'fast' car?
Discussion
Devil2575 said:
jamieduff1981 said:
It sounds like you're the wrong owner for the car buddy.
Actually it sounds like the car is a bit s
t 
t car too, but some would argue that was somewhat missing the point of it.A Cerbera is like a slightly bigger Caterham with a roof and 2+2 leather seating, and it gets a second bank of cylinders to make up for the weight increase to 1150kg.
If you're trying to make it like a mass-produced Japanese car like a Supra, it might be s
t. The reasons why fatjon prefers the Supra (comfort, refinement etc) are exactly the same reasons why I have a Cerbera and not a Supra. I don't want that. I have fast family cars for that. I want something raw in a pretty body. 
I'm falling out of love with high speed but not acceleration.
From 30mph my car can double the motorway speed limit in just under 10 seconds so I feel like I've become a bit "immune" to high speed really as it really doesn't feel "scary" until 190mph+ which I've only done a hand full of times (filmed during an autobahn run). It also doesn't help that my car can happily cruise at 180mph feeling as nice and stable (if a bit louder) as my Mk4 Mondeo did at 100mph.
On the other hand, I still absolutely love the acceleration of my car and I use all that power daily. It's just a shame that the acceleration leads to high speed
From 30mph my car can double the motorway speed limit in just under 10 seconds so I feel like I've become a bit "immune" to high speed really as it really doesn't feel "scary" until 190mph+ which I've only done a hand full of times (filmed during an autobahn run). It also doesn't help that my car can happily cruise at 180mph feeling as nice and stable (if a bit louder) as my Mk4 Mondeo did at 100mph.
On the other hand, I still absolutely love the acceleration of my car and I use all that power daily. It's just a shame that the acceleration leads to high speed
Edited by IanH755 on Wednesday 21st September 13:49
Don't get me wrong, I like raw when I'm in the mood for it but raw in the pissing rain with no wipers is effing useless. Sat at the side of the M18 with the alternator fuse blown in the pissing rain with the wife in her best going out frock is equally less than ideal. Having a little light start flashing and the windows wind themselves up on a 30c day with crap aircon is a beyond minor irritation. Having 4 clutches in 10k miles and 3 master/slaves until I finally found one that didn't piss all the fluid out within 500 miles was an expensive and inconvenient pain in the bum, and a cracked exhaust manifold should not ignite the "fire proof" under bonnet lining!
Raw and unrefined I can put up with or even enjoy, it is one of the attractions of the car. It's the rest that gets on my tits. The Toyota just proves that it possible to make a very fast car that isn't also (as was mentioned a couple of posts ago) st. I own one, I love it but sorry, in most ways other than 3.8 to 60 and 200MPH and being horny to look at it's expensively ste. I have a Supra, a 350Z, a 400+BHP MG Maestro turbo, a home made kit car with a boosted MX5 engine, 2 cheap Chinese quads, a notoriously unreliable L200 pickup and an ancient Grand Voyager with intergalactic mileage on it. All of which are vastly more likely to get me there than the TVR ever has been. I have a folder full of bills from before I bought it in 2007 demonstrating that even from the factory it was a money pit with things failing that just shouldn't be failing on a well maintained and dry stored 45k mile car. Plus another 35k of bills since I got it. I still won't sell it though
Raw and unrefined I can put up with or even enjoy, it is one of the attractions of the car. It's the rest that gets on my tits. The Toyota just proves that it possible to make a very fast car that isn't also (as was mentioned a couple of posts ago) s
t. I own one, I love it but sorry, in most ways other than 3.8 to 60 and 200MPH and being horny to look at it's expensively ste. I have a Supra, a 350Z, a 400+BHP MG Maestro turbo, a home made kit car with a boosted MX5 engine, 2 cheap Chinese quads, a notoriously unreliable L200 pickup and an ancient Grand Voyager with intergalactic mileage on it. All of which are vastly more likely to get me there than the TVR ever has been. I have a folder full of bills from before I bought it in 2007 demonstrating that even from the factory it was a money pit with things failing that just shouldn't be failing on a well maintained and dry stored 45k mile car. Plus another 35k of bills since I got it. I still won't sell it though jamieduff1981 said:
Devil2575 said:
jamieduff1981 said:
It sounds like you're the wrong owner for the car buddy.
Actually it sounds like the car is a bit st t car too, but some would argue that was somewhat missing the point of it.A Cerbera is like a slightly bigger Caterham with a roof and 2+2 leather seating, and it gets a second bank of cylinders to make up for the weight increase to 1150kg.
If you're trying to make it like a mass-produced Japanese car like a Supra, it might be s
t. The reasons why fatjon prefers the Supra (comfort, refinement etc) are exactly the same reasons why I have a Cerbera and not a Supra. I don't want that. I have fast family cars for that. I want something raw in a pretty body. This section of his post covers why I have the impression I have:
...and you stand a much better chance of getting where you're going and home again without a low loader. I have spent years ironing out the annoyances on the TVR, such as the massively too loud indicator beeper, rattles and creaks, wobbling bonnet, continual clutch failures, slow windows, doors that may or may not open when you press the button, no idle speed control stepper, pathetic aircon, terrible acoustics, wipers that touch about a third of the swept area of the screen etc etc etc. Each time I fix one of the bug bears another one appears. It's just continuous stress and annoyance to the point that I no longer get in and enjoy driving, I get in wondering WTF will go wrong next and if I will get where I'm going.
So not really to do with refinement and comfort, more stuff just not working properly and the car being unreliable and poorly made.
This is a very interesting topic because I've owned a TVR Griffith 4.0 litre for some 20 years and it's been pretty much unused for the past ten years due to not having the finances to get it properly sorted and having a young family who wouldn't fit in it. I looked very seriously at selling my Saab 9-3 convertible daily driver and the Griff and replacing it with a Toyota GT86. That way I can do everything I can in both my current cars (except take the roof off) and enjoy spirited driving everywhere I go. I live in Sussex and commute to Heathrow but wouldn't risk the TVR on a sometimes 4am commute to work so I end up driving the Saab which is a great car but not a 'drivers car'.
I've just spent a bloody fortune getting the TVR into great shape and it's about to go for an interior retrim as well and I have to say that I've been really enjoying driving it around Sussex and Hampshire so I'd say on balance I've fallen back in love with it. I'm working on a plan to perhaps replace the Saab with a secondhand GT86 now because when I drove the GT86 I found it had many of the qualities of the Griff but without the outrageous performance at licence losing speeds. In short it was easier and more accessible to have fun with, it handles like a dream, it's going to be faultlessly reliable and it looks pretty darned cool and has a superb driving position.
There's no doubt that owning something like a TVR is expensive and is more hassle than something like a Z4, GT86 or MX5. I'm planning to keep the TVR at present because I'm enjoying it again and also because it's finally appreciating too with the relaunch of TVR and the scarcity of nice TVR's about.
I do think however that there's a lot to be said for the mass manufactured alternatives like the GT86 - especially when they look and drive as well as this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vW6QdtWrAgw&in...
Saxon
I've just spent a bloody fortune getting the TVR into great shape and it's about to go for an interior retrim as well and I have to say that I've been really enjoying driving it around Sussex and Hampshire so I'd say on balance I've fallen back in love with it. I'm working on a plan to perhaps replace the Saab with a secondhand GT86 now because when I drove the GT86 I found it had many of the qualities of the Griff but without the outrageous performance at licence losing speeds. In short it was easier and more accessible to have fun with, it handles like a dream, it's going to be faultlessly reliable and it looks pretty darned cool and has a superb driving position.
There's no doubt that owning something like a TVR is expensive and is more hassle than something like a Z4, GT86 or MX5. I'm planning to keep the TVR at present because I'm enjoying it again and also because it's finally appreciating too with the relaunch of TVR and the scarcity of nice TVR's about.
I do think however that there's a lot to be said for the mass manufactured alternatives like the GT86 - especially when they look and drive as well as this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vW6QdtWrAgw&in...
Saxon
That's the problem with Griffs.
I was filling up at Stow on the Wold on Tuesday when one fired up and pottered off. I found myself contemplating selling the Typhon and buying a Griff. I owned a 4.3BV from when I was 21 to 34 and frankly they are just about the best sports car (as a second car) for the UK. Classic and good looks, a fantastic soundtrack when pottering, just the right power to weight ratio to feel that you are really using the car, lively at higher speeds so always exciting, cheap to buy and own and no other modernish car ticks all those boxes. It's very easy to trade German/Japanese reliability or Lotus handling or supercar performance for the package it offers.
On the matter of living in central London and finding good cars harder and harder to use, raised by some other posters, you used to be able to get from Central London to some quiet and good roads quite quickly and easily but those roads are far busier and slower now. At the same time, moving about in central London has become utterly impossible. I have found myself simply not digging out the Typhon because I just couldn't be arsed with the 1 hour crawl and crappy minicab infested roads to get out of Town. The final icing on the cake has been the forging ahead with the new emission taxes.
The end result for me is that with all of this sucking my enjoyment of cars away, Brexit looming and the absolutely moronic inflation in house prices I have this month sold up and bought a 5 garage house in the country, surrounded by great roads.
I was filling up at Stow on the Wold on Tuesday when one fired up and pottered off. I found myself contemplating selling the Typhon and buying a Griff. I owned a 4.3BV from when I was 21 to 34 and frankly they are just about the best sports car (as a second car) for the UK. Classic and good looks, a fantastic soundtrack when pottering, just the right power to weight ratio to feel that you are really using the car, lively at higher speeds so always exciting, cheap to buy and own and no other modernish car ticks all those boxes. It's very easy to trade German/Japanese reliability or Lotus handling or supercar performance for the package it offers.
On the matter of living in central London and finding good cars harder and harder to use, raised by some other posters, you used to be able to get from Central London to some quiet and good roads quite quickly and easily but those roads are far busier and slower now. At the same time, moving about in central London has become utterly impossible. I have found myself simply not digging out the Typhon because I just couldn't be arsed with the 1 hour crawl and crappy minicab infested roads to get out of Town. The final icing on the cake has been the forging ahead with the new emission taxes.
The end result for me is that with all of this sucking my enjoyment of cars away, Brexit looming and the absolutely moronic inflation in house prices I have this month sold up and bought a 5 garage house in the country, surrounded by great roads.
Edited by DonkeyApple on Thursday 20th April 19:22
TameRacingDriver said:
I think these new draconian speeding fines are going to put a lot of people off owning properly quick cars. The incentive to catch speeding motorists is bound to be a tempting cash cow for plod. I'm glad I've just got a slow mr2, about as fast as there is any point nowadays. :-(
Not really. Having regard to the ridiculously low and lowered speed limits recently any car is a real threat to ones licence, no matter how pedestrian in terms of performance.
With higher end performance stuff its more about the sense of occasion and performance parameters up to a given safe level having regard to the road conditions at the time.
Just seen this thread for the first time and I guess it describes exactly where I am in my driving "career". I bought my Type-25 Impreza new 12 years ago but it spends most of its life tucked up in the garage now as I have become used to the ease of progress in my wife's C250, which still has a decent amount of get-up-and-go but doesn't require driving the whole time.
Age I suppose.
Age I suppose.
fatjon said:
Don't get me wrong, I like raw when I'm in the mood for it but raw in the pissing rain with no wipers is effing useless. Sat at the side of the M18 with the alternator fuse blown in the pissing rain with the wife in her best going out frock is equally less than ideal. Having a little light start flashing and the windows wind themselves up on a 30c day with crap aircon is a beyond minor irritation. Having 4 clutches in 10k miles and 3 master/slaves until I finally found one that didn't piss all the fluid out within 500 miles was an expensive and inconvenient pain in the bum, and a cracked exhaust manifold should not ignite the "fire proof" under bonnet lining!
Raw and unrefined I can put up with or even enjoy, it is one of the attractions of the car. It's the rest that gets on my tits. The Toyota just proves that it possible to make a very fast car that isn't also (as was mentioned a couple of posts ago) st. I own one, I love it but sorry, in most ways other than 3.8 to 60 and 200MPH and being horny to look at it's expensively ste. I have a Supra, a 350Z, a 400+BHP MG Maestro turbo, a home made kit car with a boosted MX5 engine, 2 cheap Chinese quads, a notoriously unreliable L200 pickup and an ancient Grand Voyager with intergalactic mileage on it. All of which are vastly more likely to get me there than the TVR ever has been. I have a folder full of bills from before I bought it in 2007 demonstrating that even from the factory it was a money pit with things failing that just shouldn't be failing on a well maintained and dry stored 45k mile car. Plus another 35k of bills since I got it. I still won't sell it though
Why wouldn't you sell it, you don't have a good word to say about it? Raw and unrefined I can put up with or even enjoy, it is one of the attractions of the car. It's the rest that gets on my tits. The Toyota just proves that it possible to make a very fast car that isn't also (as was mentioned a couple of posts ago) s
t. I own one, I love it but sorry, in most ways other than 3.8 to 60 and 200MPH and being horny to look at it's expensively ste. I have a Supra, a 350Z, a 400+BHP MG Maestro turbo, a home made kit car with a boosted MX5 engine, 2 cheap Chinese quads, a notoriously unreliable L200 pickup and an ancient Grand Voyager with intergalactic mileage on it. All of which are vastly more likely to get me there than the TVR ever has been. I have a folder full of bills from before I bought it in 2007 demonstrating that even from the factory it was a money pit with things failing that just shouldn't be failing on a well maintained and dry stored 45k mile car. Plus another 35k of bills since I got it. I still won't sell it though 
I think this problem is less about busy roads and draconian speed limits and more to do with modern fast cars being as dull as ditchwater to use if not driven at least seven tenths. Of course at that stage the roads become a limiting factor, where the hell is the dynamic limit? Well lets face it, we don't know and will be hard put to find out without killing ourselves or others. Simply put, cars are now too competent, thanks to ever increasing computer control.
Most modern quick cars, even those with a good sound, waft serenely along like food blenders in traffic and offer, for me at least, no advantage over any other more humble conveyances.
Thankfully, I greatly enjoy sedately driving my TVR I think because it is very much analogue in nature, almost like a living thing. Classic cars is where it is at for driving pleasure for me now.
Most modern quick cars, even those with a good sound, waft serenely along like food blenders in traffic and offer, for me at least, no advantage over any other more humble conveyances.
Thankfully, I greatly enjoy sedately driving my TVR I think because it is very much analogue in nature, almost like a living thing. Classic cars is where it is at for driving pleasure for me now.
You don't have to drive fast for it to be fun. My daily only has about 160 brake but weighs around a ton, so is still quick enough for modern traffic. It might not win in the willy waving stakes but when it comes to driver involvement and handling it's just great. It also makes a nice noise and revs through to 7k with ease. It only does 30mpg but insurance is peanuts and the car itself is actually worth more than when I bought it.
Sa Calobra said:
Alot of basic and performance ones are. Devolving you from proper steering feel and remote feeling.
If I lived in London again I'd not own a car. Pointless.
Modern EPAS systems from manufacturers who know their stuff are now as good as hydraulic systems. Without killing the polar bears.If I lived in London again I'd not own a car. Pointless.
Some aspects of contemporary true drivers cars are actually more involving although many 'beards' trot out the usual crap about detachment.
Agree about London.
Not the case with the North. Some of the UKs finest driving roads in Yorkshire Lancashire and Cumbria. Thats why the road testers head up here.
May I humbly suggest getting a motorbike. Your talk of frustration of being in traffic jams etc preventing your enjoyment of driving will be instantly rectified. For £5000 you can buy a six year old Yamaha R1 capable of 0-60 in 2.7 secs top speed 190 mph.
If however you live in Scotland, Northumberland or Spain fast cars may have a use.
I used to have a Porsche 911 turbo (996 version), sold it no point, two track days fun but the rest of the time pointless waste of money.
Now have an Audi A7 272 bhp version, very comfortable but boring. Also have three motorbikes, fun, fun, fun !
If however you live in Scotland, Northumberland or Spain fast cars may have a use.
I used to have a Porsche 911 turbo (996 version), sold it no point, two track days fun but the rest of the time pointless waste of money.
Now have an Audi A7 272 bhp version, very comfortable but boring. Also have three motorbikes, fun, fun, fun !
swisstoni said:
There's certainly a feeling of religious penance, driving anything around my way, let alone anything with 500+ bhp.
There's terrible road surfaces, a school seemingly every 200yds, speed bumps, zebra crossings ON speed bumps, lolly pop people, horses, cattle (!), a regular visit from the police camera van, and of course at weekends, peletons of angry old men on bikes.
But I classify my car obsession as a hobby. As soon as you do that, things don't have to make sense any more and no justification is necessary.
This! Well saidThere's terrible road surfaces, a school seemingly every 200yds, speed bumps, zebra crossings ON speed bumps, lolly pop people, horses, cattle (!), a regular visit from the police camera van, and of course at weekends, peletons of angry old men on bikes.
But I classify my car obsession as a hobby. As soon as you do that, things don't have to make sense any more and no justification is necessary.
Foreverhappy said:
May I humbly suggest getting a motorbike. Your talk of frustration of being in traffic jams etc preventing your enjoyment of driving will be instantly rectified. For £5000 you can buy a six year old Yamaha R1 capable of 0-60 in 2.7 secs top speed 190 mph.
If however you live in Scotland, Northumberland or Spain fast cars may have a use.
I used to have a Porsche 911 turbo (996 version), sold it no point, two track days fun but the rest of the time pointless waste of money.
Now have an Audi A7 272 bhp version, very comfortable but boring. Also have three motorbikes, fun, fun, fun !
Same here, my daily is an E46 M3 and, much as I love it, rarely get to use its full potential on the packed roads of the Thames Valley, but I also own 3 bikes from the 2000's (sounds a lot, but they collectively owe me <£8k). I get my need for speed fulfilled on them, and commute everywhere a lot quicker on them.If however you live in Scotland, Northumberland or Spain fast cars may have a use.
I used to have a Porsche 911 turbo (996 version), sold it no point, two track days fun but the rest of the time pointless waste of money.
Now have an Audi A7 272 bhp version, very comfortable but boring. Also have three motorbikes, fun, fun, fun !
I plan on keeping the Bimmer though .... last year we were packed to go on a family camping holiday in Ireland using my wife's Honda, when the exhaust fell off the night before we were due to catch the ferry. Cue a hasty re-pack into the M3, I enjoyed an utterly glorious 10 days driving over there in it, which reminds me why I remain in love with it.
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