RE: Porsche 944 Turbo: PH Heroes
Discussion
Esceptico said:
A later 250 bhp 944 Turbo was my first Porsche and the only one that wasn't a (rear wheel drive, narrow body,
manual, coupé) 911. Maybe the 220 bhp version is different but my abiding memory is massive turbo lag and having to be very careful about unintended and unwanted oversteer. I'd be much happier peddling a 911 in the wet than a 944 Turbo.
Surprising. With 300 hp in mine I've certainly had power oversteer but never in an unexpected or unpredictable form, and the scope for lift-off oversteer on 944 in a corner entered at too high a speed is vastly more more benign than a pre-993 911.manual, coupé) 911. Maybe the 220 bhp version is different but my abiding memory is massive turbo lag and having to be very careful about unintended and unwanted oversteer. I'd be much happier peddling a 911 in the wet than a 944 Turbo.
The turbo lag is real on a standard 944 Turbo, just as it is on a 930, especially on a factory 250hp model - the 220 with its smaller, lighter turbo has a lot less of it - but easily and inexpensively reduced back to highly acceptable levels with a dual port wastegate and some intelligent mapping.
Hugh Jarse said:
Remember being a young auto obsessed engineer late 80's and thinking this was the "optimum" sportscar and ticked all my "must have features".
...galvanised...
How quaint this seems now, versus the status quo ante: ...galvanised...
"Yes, we're quite aware that your car is only seven years old, yet now laced with rust round the wings and the rocker panels. Sorry 'bout that. Can we interest you in a new one?"
It's astonishing how today's cars are packed with ever more content and capabilities, whilst simultaneously costing similar (or less) in constant value income.
ps: I'm in the "Although a cracking motor, this 944 is too ambitiously priced" camp. Far more interesting things (and multiple things!) can be had for the same sum.
The Crack Fox said:
Some inaccuracies in this article. The 924, 944 and 968 were never meant to replace the 911, they were there to compliment it. The 928 was the one planned to replace it. Also, while the 924 reached banger money at one stage, the 968 never did (and try finding one now).
Water cooled Porsche prices are undeniably on the up. But I'm not sure this one is worth that kind of money.
Water cooled Porsche prices are undeniably on the up. But I'm not sure this one is worth that kind of money.
Well said, I think the reputation as "poor man's Porsches" from people in the 90s who had crappy rep cars or these days leased crappy rep cars spoils the 924/944 image somewhat but for those in the know they represent great cars.
I think I'm in the minority for always preferring the look of the 924s to the 944s.
I have a 1990 model tuned to around 300 BHP. I paid just less than £5k 3 years ago and it had 150k on the clock. It was in need of a small amount of welding and a total respray, some tidying of the interior and a little head work, which has all been done. The car now looks and goes fantastic and stands me at around £9k with the added benefit that I'm not afraid to use it as I would be with the low mileage example here. Much as I love 944's I can't see it being worth £45k.
I can get 30 mpg on a run, it's relatively cheap to tax and insure and if you look around you can get a good useable example for less than £15k.
By the way, compared to modern cars the turbo lag is very noticeable.
I can get 30 mpg on a run, it's relatively cheap to tax and insure and if you look around you can get a good useable example for less than £15k.
By the way, compared to modern cars the turbo lag is very noticeable.
aka_kerrly said:
The Crack Fox said:
Some inaccuracies in this article. The 924, 944 and 968 were never meant to replace the 911, they were there to compliment it. The 928 was the one planned to replace it. Also, while the 924 reached banger money at one stage, the 968 never did (and try finding one now).
Water cooled Porsche prices are undeniably on the up. But I'm not sure this one is worth that kind of money.
Water cooled Porsche prices are undeniably on the up. But I'm not sure this one is worth that kind of money.
Well said, I think the reputation as "poor man's Porsches" from people in the 90s who had crappy rep cars or these days leased crappy rep cars spoils the 924/944 image somewhat but for those in the know they represent great cars.
I think I'm in the minority for always preferring the look of the 924s to the 944s.
The earliest ones must be coming up to free ved now.
I think Mr Lowtimer is correct and Autofarm are singlehandedly trying to reset the bar for good 944s. An interesting article but to someone new reading it, the way it says "but in the 944 Porsche boosted that to 220hp" might make it sound as if it was the same 4-pot as the 924, but uprated. Nobody here needs to be told that the 924 had the ordinary Audi engine (critics delighted in pointing out it was also used in the LT van); it was quite harsh and with just 125bhp on tap no quicker than mildly sporty saloons of the day. The 944's engine was essentially half a 928 V8 and very smooth thanks to its famous balancer-shafts.
The Crack Fox said:
the 968 never did (and try finding one now).
I sold my 968 tiptronic to EMC for £3K 3 years ago, in the previous year they had managed to buy a couple of manual 968s for the same money. That is banger money as far as I am concerned. This particular car is not crazy money when one looks at the insane prices being asked for a lot of mundane SCs and 3.2 Carreras including utter junk like Targas.
People obviously aren't driving them as over the same period that road going cars have doubled in value my 944 S2 race car has lost about 20% of its value. Really sad indictment of the pathetic nature of the car scene these days that I am close to selling up on that car, ebaying all my stuff and just ragging my Megane instead until it dies and I can get another cheap 7 or so year old performance car to rag. The entire industry that has sprung up around the classic car/sports car scene gets 2 fingers from me I'm afraid.
Save 10K on this 951 and buy a gen II 997 Carrera S and never loose a penny on it whilst owning a properly last of its type sports car, or if one actually wants to use cars save 30k, buy a Megane 250 Cup for 12k and spend the rest on 300 Bhp/350lbft remap, brakes and tyres then rag the thing all over Europe for a few years. Both will muller this stock 951 whilst costing less to run and likely more fun to drive.
Esceptico said:
A later 250 bhp 944 Turbo was my first Porsche and the only one that wasn't a (rear wheel drive, narrow body,
manual, coupé) 911. Maybe the 220 bhp version is different but my abiding memory is massive turbo lag and having to be very careful about unintended and unwanted oversteer. I'd be much happier peddling a 911 in the wet than a 944 Turbo.
THISmanual, coupé) 911. Maybe the 220 bhp version is different but my abiding memory is massive turbo lag and having to be very careful about unintended and unwanted oversteer. I'd be much happier peddling a 911 in the wet than a 944 Turbo.
I enjoyed my S2 far more, the engine was a peach.
NJH said:
Save 10K on this 951 and buy a gen II 997 Carrera S and never loose a penny on it whilst owning a properly last of its type sports car, or if one actually wants to use cars save 30k, buy a Megane 250 Cup for 12k and spend the rest on 300 Bhp/350lbft remap, brakes and tyres then rag the thing all over Europe for a few years. Both will muller this stock 951 whilst costing less to run and likely more fun to drive.
There are plenty of cars I'd have before a £30k 944 turbo, but buy a £15k 944t and spend another £15k on it and I'm fairly sure it would be all over a 997 Carrera S. And saying a Megane with an extra 80 bhp would muller a 220 turbo ignores the fact you'd be in Renault 
.
I remember looking at a 'silver rose' edition and thinking 'f
k off' at 8K. That and the 968CS I fked off at 10K to buy their contemporaries instead make me think I need to re-evaluate my car buying strategy because it seems I buy these old sheds at their cheapest, spend 1000's fixing them up, sell them before the price rockets and then think WTF just happened.
Still onwards and upwards- I'd be fked if I'd pay the sort of money talked here for a 944. They simply aren't worth it.
Better to try and find the next upcoming 'classic' available for relative buttons and get as much ownership satisfaction as possible out of it.
k off' at 8K. That and the 968CS I fked off at 10K to buy their contemporaries instead make me think I need to re-evaluate my car buying strategy because it seems I buy these old sheds at their cheapest, spend 1000's fixing them up, sell them before the price rockets and then think WTF just happened.Still onwards and upwards- I'd be f
ked if I'd pay the sort of money talked here for a 944. They simply aren't worth it.Better to try and find the next upcoming 'classic' available for relative buttons and get as much ownership satisfaction as possible out of it.
MarkPhillipson said:
Nobody here needs to be told that the 924 had the ordinary Audi engine (critics delighted in pointing out it was also used in the LT van); it was quite harsh and with just 125bhp on tap no quicker than mildly sporty saloons of the day. The 944's engine was essentially half a 928 V8 and very smooth thanks to its famous balancer-shafts.
The 924S has the 944 2.5 engine. Never been a fan of the narrow body 924 TBH.I had a remapped 1989 944 Turbo (300bhp) 15 years ago, it was very fast once moving (less so off the line)
It had superb build quality but it was certainly a GT car, more at home on sweeping A roads.
It was worth the £5k I paid for it (80k with FSH) but I can't see why you'd pay much more for one.
I sold it and kept my Supercharged MX5 as it was more fun.
It had superb build quality but it was certainly a GT car, more at home on sweeping A roads.
It was worth the £5k I paid for it (80k with FSH) but I can't see why you'd pay much more for one.
I sold it and kept my Supercharged MX5 as it was more fun.
Edited by V8RX7 on Sunday 27th March 21:41
I remember years ago charging round the country trying to find a nice 944 turbo.
2 were dogs masquerading as `genuine` cars and I finally ended up crossing the Irish sea to view one in Northern Ireland.
Complete stinker and totally misadvertised. Drove like st too. I then focused on a non turbo variant. Over rated and overpriced poop.
2 were dogs masquerading as `genuine` cars and I finally ended up crossing the Irish sea to view one in Northern Ireland.
Complete stinker and totally misadvertised. Drove like s
t too. I then focused on a non turbo variant. Over rated and overpriced poop.Much as I like the look of this, I'm afraid I would throw my money into a Lotus Carlton and a 944 turbo cabriolet, that way I would have something to ferry the family around if necessary and a 944 for 1/3 the cost of this example, with the benefit of having a drop top to benefit from that 1 day of summer we may get, and as it will have more miles than this example I won't be afraid to use it.
Having said all of the above, all it takes is that one person to want a car like this, and all of a sudden the market sees it sold and readjusts, based on the price and perceived value.
Having said all of the above, all it takes is that one person to want a car like this, and all of a sudden the market sees it sold and readjusts, based on the price and perceived value.
rtz62 said:
Having said all of the above, all it takes is that one person to want a car like this, and all of a sudden the market sees it sold and readjusts, based on the price and perceived value.
There are quite a few 944's advertised on here that have been up for sale for ages. So I'd be surprised if the market could stand much more upward adjustment. But as a man who has sold a Carrera 3.2 and a 964 in the past, and struggle to sell them, only to see values rocket shortly afterwards, I'm probably not the best judge.My father in law has a 924 turbo gradually decaying in a barn. I'm sort-of tempted to do something about it, but the amount required to resurrect it just can't really justify itself and I've never had the love for these required to do it for love. :-/
This particular example seems crazy money to me. Carrera GT seems a better bet if you're buying for interest. http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...
This particular example seems crazy money to me. Carrera GT seems a better bet if you're buying for interest. http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...
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