RE: Range Rover Sport SVR vs Porsche Cayenne Turbo S
Discussion
I had a Cayenne Turbo (original version) and mighty it was. But it also ate tyres and drank fuel (the official stats are a fantasy) at a rate that made a 550 Maranello look frugal. Ultra powerful SUVs are an engineering achievement but hopelessly expensive to own and run, and compared to their turbo diesel stablemates, completely unnecessary.
I agree with toppstuff's comments, the writing is apologetic (perhpas not the right word) and assuming most of readership don't like SUVs. I am as big a car nut as anyone else and happen to adore these two cars. So glad they are being made.
Would prefer if you didn't throw things in like 'footballer posing chariots', 'leaving humility at the door, 'pointless manhood measurement', 'few not sold on the whole performance crossover thing' etc etc
Can you just assume that we all know that some people like them and others don't. On that basis, be objective about the relative merits and drawbacks. I'm growing tired of the same soundbites over and over.
Love your work though, and thank you for the free content!
One point I will take issue with though and that's practicality - living with the Sport it's not as big inside as it looks from out, the rear seats don't fold flat and, like all SUVs needing to accommodate massive 22-inch wheels and suitable suspension travel, there's a load of arch intrusion that impacts on boot space and rear legroom. Plus shorter people need 'convenience' features like powered tailgates and load height suspension to use the boot. And in the Cayenne's case leg- and headroom in the back are awful, the boot is small and the visibility woeful. They are mighty machines but the ability and style does demand sacrifices.
If you want truly practical, rural friendly transport I'd maintain an Octavia Scout, Legacy Outback, A6 Allroad or similar gives you more actual usable space, much more road-friendly dimensions and enough off-road ability to get along any farm track or be confident of reaching your destination whatever the weather. Bringing us full circle to the inescapable fact pose factor is at least as important as the actual usability in these things.
And the perceived anti-SUV bias? Consider it an editorial stance. And I'm the editor!
But I hope you'll agree opinions are qualified, expressed fairly and fully backed up where made. And, of course, if you disagree there is a platform on which to discuss further!
Cheers!
Dan
Would prefer if you didn't throw things in like 'footballer posing chariots', 'leaving humility at the door, 'pointless manhood measurement', 'few not sold on the whole performance crossover thing' etc etc
Can you just assume that we all know that some people like them and others don't. On that basis, be objective about the relative merits and drawbacks. I'm growing tired of the same soundbites over and over.
Love your work though, and thank you for the free content!
Dan Trent said:
toppstuff said:
Dan - We get it that you don't like SUVs.
You did read to the end of the story, right? I'll be the first to admit both of these cars succeed handsomely in their goals and, at least in the SVR's case, with enough charisma to win over even the most ardent anti-SUV cynic. Or at least leaving them feeling a little conflicted! And customers love them. One point I will take issue with though and that's practicality - living with the Sport it's not as big inside as it looks from out, the rear seats don't fold flat and, like all SUVs needing to accommodate massive 22-inch wheels and suitable suspension travel, there's a load of arch intrusion that impacts on boot space and rear legroom. Plus shorter people need 'convenience' features like powered tailgates and load height suspension to use the boot. And in the Cayenne's case leg- and headroom in the back are awful, the boot is small and the visibility woeful. They are mighty machines but the ability and style does demand sacrifices.
If you want truly practical, rural friendly transport I'd maintain an Octavia Scout, Legacy Outback, A6 Allroad or similar gives you more actual usable space, much more road-friendly dimensions and enough off-road ability to get along any farm track or be confident of reaching your destination whatever the weather. Bringing us full circle to the inescapable fact pose factor is at least as important as the actual usability in these things.
And the perceived anti-SUV bias? Consider it an editorial stance. And I'm the editor!
But I hope you'll agree opinions are qualified, expressed fairly and fully backed up where made. And, of course, if you disagree there is a platform on which to discuss further! Cheers!
Dan
Edited by Dan Trent on Wednesday 30th March 14:36
RobGT81 said:
LasseV said:
Me too. Actually there is no SUV's in my area. There are proper 4wd workhorses tho, but these two are not that kind of cars.
Indeed. Buy a Discovery if you really need one. Therein lies the whole point for some, the SVR can tow, off road, be smart and luxurious and also move at a fearsome pace whilst being enjoyed. This combined with the fact that it is all in one car, for those that don't want to to own more than one or don't have the space and you have an excellent all rounder.
Also, I see plenty of RR & RRS in and around Wales and the surrounding country side but seldom see the 'wannabe' off-roading equivalents.
Dan Trent said:
Theophany said:
What a load of old rubbish. How can a car's steering knock your confidence unless it does something unexpected, i.e. fail?
Drive these two back to back and you'll see what I mean! The weighting and response of the Power Steering Plus in the Porsche just seems to have no feel or feedback, making it very hard to judge grip levels, how much lock to apply, etc... PH - steering feel matters!Dan
Put it this way; we were chopping and changing between the two cars on the same piece of road and, following James in the SVR, he was clearly happy going the pace he was while I just felt a nagging uncertainty about where the car was going to go. And from driving both on the day I'd say the better response and weight of the Range Rover's steering makes a massive difference; I also know from chatting with the engineers that was a massive focus during the development phase so I'd say it paid off. That and the visibility; in the SVR you get a real advantage from the height of it whereas the mirrors on the Porsche pretty much fill the first quarter of the side windows. Combined with thick pillars and a tall dash and you just have less confidence about where you're placing the car which, given how rapidly it'll go, is a little concerning. Doesn't matter so much on wider roads but when it's a bit tight and twisty it makes a real difference to the pace you're happy carrying.
We weren't going daft speeds by any margin. But where I was relaxed in the SVR I felt on edge in the Cayenne.
Hope that fleshes out the point a little.
Cheers,
Dan
We weren't going daft speeds by any margin. But where I was relaxed in the SVR I felt on edge in the Cayenne.
Hope that fleshes out the point a little.
Cheers,
Dan
Dan Trent said:
One point I will take issue with though and that's practicality - living with the Sport it's not as big inside as it looks from out, the rear seats don't fold flat and, like all SUVs needing to accommodate massive 22-inch wheels and suitable suspension travel, there's a load of arch intrusion that impacts on boot space and rear legroom. Plus shorter people need 'convenience' features like powered tailgates and load height suspension to use the boot. And in the Cayenne's case leg- and headroom in the back are awful, the boot is small and the visibility woeful. They are mighty machines but the ability and style does demand sacrifices.
Hmmm.... this whole section comes across as clutching at straws... my Cayenne Turbo ownership does not reflect any of the above ! Small boot? Its bigger than the RRS, can be made bigger by the rear sliding seats, and you can drop the suspension to entry mode height with one button.Edited by Dan Trent on Wednesday 30th March 14:36
Awful rear legroom? Sorry I cant comprehend anyone (that isnt 6ft 5+) writing that - Its actually one of the roomiest in its class and its seats both slide and recline - did you have the rear seats slid fully back? There is notably more legroom in the back of the Cayenne than the RRS or new X5M - not even close.
As for woeful visibility - come off it !! A Lambo Huracan has woeful visibility, a Cayenne does not ! Perhaps you mean to say it has slightly less glass area than the Range Rover...
As for steering feel, I didn't have the 'plus' option so can't comment on that but the accuracy and weighting of the steering is truly remarkable - miles ahead of the RRS imv.
There is no situation in which the owner of Cayenne Turbo ever feels he is in the wrong car - whether its going for a long drive with the family, burning off sports cars on slip roads or autobahns, enjoying oneself on country roads, or going ski-ing fully laden with winter tyres on - its a one stop solution that ticks every box an enthusiast could want from a family car - thats why people like me buy them.
Dan Trent said:
Put it this way; we were chopping and changing between the two cars on the same piece of road and, following James in the SVR, he was clearly happy going the pace he was while I just felt a nagging uncertainty about where the car was going to go. And from driving both on the day I'd say the better response and weight of the Range Rover's steering makes a massive difference; I also know from chatting with the engineers that was a massive focus during the development phase so I'd say it paid off. That and the visibility; in the SVR you get a real advantage from the height of it whereas the mirrors on the Porsche pretty much fill the first quarter of the side windows. Combined with thick pillars and a tall dash and you just have less confidence about where you're placing the car which, given how rapidly it'll go, is a little concerning. Doesn't matter so much on wider roads but when it's a bit tight and twisty it makes a real difference to the pace you're happy carrying.
We weren't going daft speeds by any margin. But where I was relaxed in the SVR I felt on edge in the Cayenne.
Hope that fleshes out the point a little.
Cheers,
Dan
Sorry to be a pedant Dan, but you're either going or you're not, you can't be going to go. Which probably explains the confused sense of direction you felt through the steering wheel and the seat of you 501's.We weren't going daft speeds by any margin. But where I was relaxed in the SVR I felt on edge in the Cayenne.
Hope that fleshes out the point a little.
Cheers,
Dan
Joking aside, I would never be in a position to purchase one of these new, and still wouldn't consider one at the point where it has shed a big % of its list price.
I'd look at getting a used, LR warranted, Discovery SDV6 accompanied by a low-mileage BMW M5 touring. Or possibly a good, used Audi RS6, that way I'd have a very fast and sure footed family car, and an SUV for when you want to play or the conditions require it..
And where I live we are in the brow of a hill that tumbles gently into rural Ruralshire, and yes, people drive plenty of Land Rovers and tow horse boxes.
Funny thing, as an aside, is that the closer you get to Matlock and Bakewell, the more of these things you see. They fall into the two camps of either being a genuine farmer who gets out of said vehicle which is a workhouse and is invariably caked in mud and cow s
t (both the car and the driver), or the gleaming bling SUV from which alights a suburban yummy mummy wearing Barbour coat and wellies and who's idea of hard work is wether to use pink or coral lipstick..
Fittster said:
toppstuff said:
Fittster said:
toppstuff said:
Anyone who does not live an urban or suburban existence will tell you that there is nothing better for the day to day life of living in rural areas.
I live in a rural area and I don't see the need for an SUV. And I don't wear a barbour jacket. Not much anyway.
An Audio RS6 is lovely but the wheels would get trashed in no time and the ground clearance would be a big problem. An SVR or Cayenne Turbo has no such problems.
As for horse boxes, yes i do tow one from time to time. I also tow a car trailer with the project of the moment on it from time to time too..
At least where I live, there are loads and loads of people like me. A performance estate car around here wouldn't work very well at all.
chappardababbar said:
I agree with toppstuff's comments, the writing is apologetic (perhpas not the right word) and assuming most of readership don't like SUVs. I am as big a car nut as anyone else and happen to adore these two cars. So glad they are being made.
Would prefer if you didn't throw things in like 'footballer posing chariots', 'leaving humility at the door, 'pointless manhood measurement', 'few not sold on the whole performance crossover thing' etc etc
Can you just assume that we all know that some people like them and others don't. On that basis, be objective about the relative merits and drawbacks. I'm growing tired of the same soundbites over and over.
Love your work though, and thank you for the free content!
One point I will take issue with though and that's practicality - living with the Sport it's not as big inside as it looks from out, the rear seats don't fold flat and, like all SUVs needing to accommodate massive 22-inch wheels and suitable suspension travel, there's a load of arch intrusion that impacts on boot space and rear legroom. Plus shorter people need 'convenience' features like powered tailgates and load height suspension to use the boot. And in the Cayenne's case leg- and headroom in the back are awful, the boot is small and the visibility woeful. They are mighty machines but the ability and style does demand sacrifices.
If you want truly practical, rural friendly transport I'd maintain an Octavia Scout, Legacy Outback, A6 Allroad or similar gives you more actual usable space, much more road-friendly dimensions and enough off-road ability to get along any farm track or be confident of reaching your destination whatever the weather. Bringing us full circle to the inescapable fact pose factor is at least as important as the actual usability in these things.
And the perceived anti-SUV bias? Consider it an editorial stance. And I'm the editor! But I hope you'll agree opinions are qualified, expressed fairly and fully backed up where made. And, of course, if you disagree there is a platform on which to discuss further!
Cheers!
Dan
chappardababbar - you said it more eloquently than me. I completely concur.Would prefer if you didn't throw things in like 'footballer posing chariots', 'leaving humility at the door, 'pointless manhood measurement', 'few not sold on the whole performance crossover thing' etc etc
Can you just assume that we all know that some people like them and others don't. On that basis, be objective about the relative merits and drawbacks. I'm growing tired of the same soundbites over and over.
Love your work though, and thank you for the free content!
Dan Trent said:
toppstuff said:
Dan - We get it that you don't like SUVs.
You did read to the end of the story, right? I'll be the first to admit both of these cars succeed handsomely in their goals and, at least in the SVR's case, with enough charisma to win over even the most ardent anti-SUV cynic. Or at least leaving them feeling a little conflicted! And customers love them. One point I will take issue with though and that's practicality - living with the Sport it's not as big inside as it looks from out, the rear seats don't fold flat and, like all SUVs needing to accommodate massive 22-inch wheels and suitable suspension travel, there's a load of arch intrusion that impacts on boot space and rear legroom. Plus shorter people need 'convenience' features like powered tailgates and load height suspension to use the boot. And in the Cayenne's case leg- and headroom in the back are awful, the boot is small and the visibility woeful. They are mighty machines but the ability and style does demand sacrifices.
If you want truly practical, rural friendly transport I'd maintain an Octavia Scout, Legacy Outback, A6 Allroad or similar gives you more actual usable space, much more road-friendly dimensions and enough off-road ability to get along any farm track or be confident of reaching your destination whatever the weather. Bringing us full circle to the inescapable fact pose factor is at least as important as the actual usability in these things.
And the perceived anti-SUV bias? Consider it an editorial stance. And I'm the editor!
But I hope you'll agree opinions are qualified, expressed fairly and fully backed up where made. And, of course, if you disagree there is a platform on which to discuss further! Cheers!
Dan
Edited by Dan Trent on Wednesday 30th March 14:36
Dan - of course you are the editor and an anti-SUV stance is entirely within your gift.
It is still rather blinkered however IMO.
My view is simple:
SUV's are useful to some people. Taking aside the "chelsea chariot". "Footballer" and "tanned wives" cliches, there are many, many, many people who use these cars regulary and appreciate their qualities.
Given that some people like SUV's, it therefore follows that within that group of people are those who think that if they must have an SUV, then why not have a fast SUV?
Why be forced to own a diesel slow SUV when you can have a fast V8 petrol SUV? Looking at it in this way, it is easy to see why these cars exist.
Seems a lot of people with pre conceived ideas that have never owned one think they have knowledge of what they are like…
We have 2 day to day cars these days.. A 1.2 Polo diesel for pumping the miles on (75k in 2 years)
and this…
Quite simply, pound for pound it is the best car I have ever owned…It tows anything a Landrover will and generally better, more stably and quicker. It is a high performance uber wagon when I want it to be.
it can get me out of the hilly wilderness in the harshest of weather, It can get me up the hillside with genny, gravel and building gear when I need to work on my spring water supply.
It really boils my piss when I hear folk who live in towns and quite frankly should just use the bus criticise what the car is. it annoys me that I have to pay £500 per year road tax because some environmentalist tt has deemed it is a chelsea tractor…
I have ran landies..st, breakdown and rust.
Mitsubshis's, ste, breakdown and rust
Isuzu troopers…ste, rust, have st injectors which blow engines up..Breakdown (not bad bodies)
So i thought bks and tried a Porsche…It has never let me down, the odd sensor has failed which generally cost the same as a Volkswagen to repair and I feel great every time I drive it..
Is it Thirsty..yes.
(Thats it though)
Any off road limitation is like any expensive vehicle..What tyres are you using and how much damage do you want to inflict on your panels!!
As a tool for the Country dweller who tows, and actually uses a utility vehicle though.. It has very very few rivals..
Mine cost me £25k with 25k worth of extras on the spec sheet..
The doubters..Please keep knocking them..It makes it easier to pick up a good well specced one for reasonable money
N.
We have 2 day to day cars these days.. A 1.2 Polo diesel for pumping the miles on (75k in 2 years)
and this…
Quite simply, pound for pound it is the best car I have ever owned…It tows anything a Landrover will and generally better, more stably and quicker. It is a high performance uber wagon when I want it to be.
it can get me out of the hilly wilderness in the harshest of weather, It can get me up the hillside with genny, gravel and building gear when I need to work on my spring water supply.
It really boils my piss when I hear folk who live in towns and quite frankly should just use the bus criticise what the car is. it annoys me that I have to pay £500 per year road tax because some environmentalist t
t has deemed it is a chelsea tractor…I have ran landies..s
t, breakdown and rust.Mitsubshis's, s
te, breakdown and rustIsuzu troopers…s
te, rust, have st injectors which blow engines up..Breakdown (not bad bodies)So i thought b
ks and tried a Porsche…It has never let me down, the odd sensor has failed which generally cost the same as a Volkswagen to repair and I feel great every time I drive it..Is it Thirsty..yes.
(Thats it though)
Any off road limitation is like any expensive vehicle..What tyres are you using and how much damage do you want to inflict on your panels!!
As a tool for the Country dweller who tows, and actually uses a utility vehicle though.. It has very very few rivals..
Mine cost me £25k with 25k worth of extras on the spec sheet..
The doubters..Please keep knocking them..It makes it easier to pick up a good well specced one for reasonable money
N.
All reasonable points but I don't think we're the only media outlet to use a provocative headline/standfirst/intro countered by a more reasoned and considered body article to make for a more interesting read! I guess we *could* just do comparison stats and info but for a feature length piece like this - and attached to a forum where folk can argue the toss - I'd hope there's a little more value in presenting an argument. And if doing so provokes a debate then all is good!
And Dollyman1850 - for that you deserve a
!
Cheers!
Dan
And Dollyman1850 - for that you deserve a
!Cheers!
Dan
Dan Trent said:
All reasonable points but I don't think we're the only media outlet to use a provocative headline/standfirst/intro countered by a more reasoned and considered body article to make for a more interesting read! I guess we *could* just do comparison stats and info but for a feature length piece like this - and attached to a forum where folk can argue the toss - I'd hope there's a little more value in presenting an argument. And if doing so provokes a debate then all is good!
And Dollyman1850 - for that you deserve a!
Cheers!
Dan
Maybe I am one of the few that actually use them for what they are designed for.And Dollyman1850 - for that you deserve a
!Cheers!
Dan
They are anything but pointless cars though.
It always gives me a giggle when I can out accelerate the mediocrity of 4 wheeled white goods whilst towing a laden car trailer….
The impression of terrain in this photo doesn't do the pic justice..This is on the 450m contour line on a Northumbrian boggy hillside where my spring is…This is what a utility vehicle is about…a 1 in 4 climb over about 1/4 mile off road on its big road based tyres… in winter I run the 18 inch snow tyres..
We had a dusting this morning funnily enough, Next week gets the road based tyres back on the car..
You made a comment about steering feel. I find that I can corner my PASM air equipped GTS very flatly and much much faster than most… with plenty of poise and steering feel and mine is an old model?
Its never going to be a sports car but the flip side is the sports car cannot do it with 1/4 ton in the back!!
All cars are a compromise…the compromises are very small with the Cayenne. The exception being the petrol bill.. Thats why the rest of the time I use a little diesel.
N.
Edited by Dollyman1850 on Wednesday 30th March 18:25
Edited by Dollyman1850 on Wednesday 30th March 18:28
Dollyman1850 said:
Seems a lot of people with pre conceived ideas that have never owned one think they have knowledge of what they are like…
We have 2 day to day cars these days.. A 1.2 Polo diesel for pumping the miles on (75k in 2 years)
and this…
Quite simply, pound for pound it is the best car I have ever owned…It tows anything a Landrover will and generally better, more stably and quicker. It is a high performance uber wagon when I want it to be.
it can get me out of the hilly wilderness in the harshest of weather, It can get me up the hillside with genny, gravel and building gear when I need to work on my spring water supply.
It really boils my piss when I hear folk who live in towns and quite frankly should just use the bus criticise what the car is. it annoys me that I have to pay £500 per year road tax because some environmentalist tt has deemed it is a chelsea tractor…
I have ran landies..st, breakdown and rust.
Mitsubshis's, ste, breakdown and rust
Isuzu troopers…ste, rust, have st injectors which blow engines up..Breakdown (not bad bodies)
So i thought bks and tried a Porsche…It has never let me down, the odd sensor has failed which generally cost the same as a Volkswagen to repair and I feel great every time I drive it..
Is it Thirsty..yes.
(Thats it though)
Any off road limitation is like any expensive vehicle..What tyres are you using and how much damage do you want to inflict on your panels!!
As a tool for the Country dweller who tows, and actually uses a utility vehicle though.. It has very very few rivals..
Mine cost me £25k with 25k worth of extras on the spec sheet..
The doubters..Please keep knocking them..It makes it easier to pick up a good well specced one for reasonable money
N.
But you only paid £25k, of course it's a great car at that price point......We have 2 day to day cars these days.. A 1.2 Polo diesel for pumping the miles on (75k in 2 years)
and this…
Quite simply, pound for pound it is the best car I have ever owned…It tows anything a Landrover will and generally better, more stably and quicker. It is a high performance uber wagon when I want it to be.
it can get me out of the hilly wilderness in the harshest of weather, It can get me up the hillside with genny, gravel and building gear when I need to work on my spring water supply.
It really boils my piss when I hear folk who live in towns and quite frankly should just use the bus criticise what the car is. it annoys me that I have to pay £500 per year road tax because some environmentalist t
t has deemed it is a chelsea tractor…I have ran landies..s
t, breakdown and rust.Mitsubshis's, s
te, breakdown and rustIsuzu troopers…s
te, rust, have st injectors which blow engines up..Breakdown (not bad bodies)So i thought b
ks and tried a Porsche…It has never let me down, the odd sensor has failed which generally cost the same as a Volkswagen to repair and I feel great every time I drive it..Is it Thirsty..yes.
(Thats it though)
Any off road limitation is like any expensive vehicle..What tyres are you using and how much damage do you want to inflict on your panels!!
As a tool for the Country dweller who tows, and actually uses a utility vehicle though.. It has very very few rivals..
Mine cost me £25k with 25k worth of extras on the spec sheet..
The doubters..Please keep knocking them..It makes it easier to pick up a good well specced one for reasonable money
N.
People buy SUVs for their utility -that is why they are so popular as the few actual owners who have commented above have testified. These two examples are merely at the extreme edge of the genre. In the USA they now outsell conventional cars. For me, given the choice between a car or an SUV, the SUV would win every time. For me, given the choice between the RR SVR and the Porsche it would be the RR every time as the vehicle that is true to the genre.
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff